Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

[laker]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

Thanks, Brandon. I post on some other boards and I'm just amazed how many people think this is a good thing CBU is moving up. Ribbons for everyone.

The WAC may not be done. This article says that they want ten teams. I'm wondering who else might go there. It won't be a team with football.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/spor...ment/96543586/

[tsull]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

The WAC may not be done. This article says that they want ten teams. I'm wondering who else might go there. It won't be a team with football.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/spor...ment/96543586/

Wonder if CBU is going to pay their coach $1M and build a new 6K/$200M arena? Or are they going to slug along with D2 facilities and salaries like the rest of mid-majors? Why do the Zags and Xavier win? Buckets of money and commitment to being Sweet 16/Elite 8 clubs in men's hoops. Gonzaga just received a $25M gift to build a basketball operations/practice facility. Their arena holds "only" 6,600 but it's plush and it's near impossible to get a seat. Mark Few's salary hasn't been disclosed, I've heard it's upwards of $3M (I lived 80 miles from Spokane, know what's going on there). Xavier also pays coaches that.

If someone wants to go all-in -- like Boise State in football (I live in Boise) -- and crank up facilities, salaries, etc., have at it. If you're another crap-show with $100K salaries, tiny gyms, etc., just hoping to get a 16-seed in the tourney, sorry, you're worthless. Don't care if Grand Canyon won 28, 3/4's of that schedule was crap, they're going nowhere, neither is the rest of the WAC.

There's no incentive for these A.D.'s to crank it up. They want to get to D-1 to get one shot on TV and make money. I'd guess 90 percent of D-1 A.D.'s have no intention of being a player on the national scene in men's hoops. Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler, want to. Very few others do.

Like Bakersfield, this is the last we'll hear from CBU.

[lv2hoop]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

Totally agree that it's an arms race. You can't win at that level unless you pay to play. Grand Canyon has dropped some serious investments into their facilities and hired a big name with Thunder Dan Majerle. My guess is that they're gambling that Phoenix is ripe for another D1 program besides the ASU Sun Devils. But it's a long shot and they could be just another casualty of the lower rungs of D1 where 200 of the teams are basically cannon fodder for the rest of D1.

[SValukis]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

Wonder if CBU is going to pay their coach $1M and build a new 6K/$200M arena? Or are they going to slug along with D2 facilities and salaries like the rest of mid-majors? Why do the Zags and Xavier win? Buckets of money and commitment to being Sweet 16/Elite 8 clubs in men's hoops. Gonzaga just received a $25M gift to build a basketball operations/practice facility. Their arena holds "only" 6,600 but it's plush and it's near impossible to get a seat. Mark Few's salary hasn't been disclosed, I've heard it's upwards of $3M (I lived 80 miles from Spokane, know what's going on there). Xavier also pays coaches that.

If someone wants to go all-in -- like Boise State in football (I live in Boise) -- and crank up facilities, salaries, etc., have at it. If you're another crap-show with $100K salaries, tiny gyms, etc., just hoping to get a 16-seed in the tourney, sorry, you're worthless. Don't care if Grand Canyon won 28, 3/4's of that schedule was crap, they're going nowhere, neither is the rest of the WAC.

There's no incentive for these A.D.'s to crank it up. They want to get to D-1 to get one shot on TV and make money. I'd guess 90 percent of D-1 A.D.'s have no intention of being a player on the national scene in men's hoops. Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler, want to. Very few others do.

Like Bakersfield, this is the last we'll hear from CBU.

!00% agree with you, if someone makes the move up and doesn't full fund, and resource the programs well it isn't worth it, as many people have pointed out look at Chicago State.As far as CBU ad hoops, they do have a 5200 seat arena opening in May of 2017, so in that regard they are doing what you were hoping they were.

[Kurt M. Weber]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

CBU's building a new stadium with a seating capacity basically equivalent to that of my small-town Indiana high school. It's right on the CBU campus, which is in a part of town for which parking is going to be an absolute nightmare.

I'm a grad student at UC-Riverside, and our basketball games barely draw a thousand spectators--and this for a medium-large state university with tens of thousands of alumni in town and in the surrounding area, which "competes" (well, at least nominally...) in a conference entirely made up of other large state schools (Hawaii + a bunch of UCs and Cal States, most of which are themselves in Southern Californial).

[UNALions]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

I'm almost beginning to think the opposite. I sometimes feel that many of the programs with big budgets are the tail wagging the dog. I'd possibly be in favor of budget caps.

And, just to be a devil's advocate, sometimes it feels like having so many divisions is more about "participation ribbons" than having all schools in one division.

[Kurt M. Weber]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

On the path to irrelevancy. Quick, tell me which religious school is killing it in D-1 hoops? Villanova (Catholic) but they're in a major conference.

Baylor's currently ranked #1, Gonzaga (mid-major WCC) is #5, Creighton is #8, Xavier is #15, Notre Dame is #20, St. Mary's (also WCC) is #21. Seton Hall's also getting some attention from the voters.

Being a sectarian school, even being a sectarian school outside of a major conference, is hardly a massive barrier. I agree that this move seems borne more out of ego than of serious planning, but it's more complicated than that.

[Brandon]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

And, just to be a devil's advocate, sometimes it feels like having so many divisions is more about "participation ribbons" than having all schools in one division.

If the FCS didn't exist, I doubt you'd feel that way. Three different levels doesn't seem too bad when you have 1000+ schools.

[UNALions]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

If the FCS didn't exist, I doubt you'd feel that way. Three different levels doesn't seem too bad when you have 1000+ schools.

Honestly, I think FCS is the silliest of the them all. It's basically saying, we want to compete in DI but we don't think football can hang. Which, with the mega budgets, is probably true. But, it's also true for several other DI sports. It's pretty lame.

[UNALions]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

The same could (should?) be done with college athletic budgets.

"Several sports leagues have implemented salary caps, both as a method of keeping overall costs down, and to ensure parity between teams..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap

[Kurt M. Weber]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

College football developed in a rather unique way compared to other intercollegiate sports, though. College football was a big deal before the NCAA even existed, and the D1/D1A structure is an artifact of the NCAA trying to adapt to that reality particularly after the post-WW2 explosion in not just higher education enrollment but the creation of new post-secondary institutions altogether--new institutions that lacked the resources and stature to credibly participate in the then-existing college game right away.

[Brandon]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

Honestly, I think FCS is the silliest of the them all. It's basically saying, we want to compete in DI but we don't think football can hang. Which, with the mega budgets, is probably true. But, it's also true for several other DI sports. It's pretty lame.

Right. I thought you might feel that way. Other friends who have/had their favorite team reclassify think it's pretty ridiculous.

In spite of what we both wrote before, I think it might be better if things were split like this:

- Power 5 100 Scholarships
- Next Level 50
- Next Level 25
- Non-Scholarship Level

Or something like that.

[UNALions]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

Right. I thought you might feel that way. Other friends who have/had their favorite team reclassify think it's pretty ridiculous.

In spite of what we both wrote before, I think it might be better if things were split like this:

- Power 5 100 Scholarships
- Next Level 50
- Next Level 25
- Non-Scholarship Level

Or something like that.

If there are to be divisions, I don't think scholarships should be the only criteria/requirements/restrictions. I'd go more with the list you presented earlier, schollys, and add in budget limits (min/max).

The budgets in P5 football, for example, are ridiculous. If those coaches want those salaries, they need to go coach in the pros. It makes me sick what Bama pays their staff.

[Brandon]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

If there are to be divisions, I don't think scholarships should be the only criteria/requirements/restrictions. I'd go more with the list you presented earlier, schollys, and add in budget limits (min/max).

The budgets in P5 football, for example, are ridiculous. If those coaches want those salaries, they need to go coach in the pros. It makes me sick what Bama pays their staff.

Oh yeah. I think that would a great way to make sure schools are with other like-schools.

[tsull]

Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

I'm almost beginning to think the opposite. I sometimes feel that many of the programs with big budgets are the tail wagging the dog. I'd possibly be in favor of budget caps.

And, just to be a devil's advocate, sometimes it feels like having so many divisions is more about "participation ribbons" than having all schools in one division.

I know for my alma mater -- which made the Final 4 in hoops last year -- it was a great thrill. That's not happening in a no-division world. WOU would get killed in D-1; we struggle to get scholarships in D2. I like that we're semi-relevant in D2 and have a shot.

Since budget limits are never happening in D-1, I'd like to see them set hoops for teams to jump as in facilities, budgets, attendance, etc. Brandon is like the only one who agrees with me. I was watching the CS-Northridge-UC Davis game on TV tonight. CSUN plays in a 1,600-seat gym (my high school seats 2K; WOU seats 2,500) and perhaps 800 were there. My friend and his kid were laughing and I said, "That's D-1 today, everyone gets in, every crappy commuter school, freaking everyone." What other division in the world had 355 members? Euro soccer? Nope. NFL? NHL? NBA? Nope. The talent at D-1 is so diluted it's sick.

Just say no to more teams. They should cut 150 of them tomorrow, IMO, but if you have a 500-seat gym and average 250, you're in.