Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

That's it. Ashland is a private Ohio school. I think they are very happy in the GLIAC and there is no good reason for them to leave. The GMAC needs one more football playing school, two if AB leaves, and waiting on Ashland borders on the ridiculous.

Its possible that Ashland's standing invite may have more to do with UIndy (Commissioner's alma mater) than it does Ashland itself.

[ctrabs74]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Exactly. That's why I think they are not jumping to the GMAC. If you're SEC football ... not going to jump at the chance to join the Big East.

Especially since Big East football no longer exists...

[CardinalAlum]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Cost-wise ... yeah, no improvement going from D2 to D3. Helmets and pads cost the same. You could probably make a case some D3's in states like PA actually spend more. PSAC schools give out scholarships based on 'raised' money (donors). That's not costing the school anything. The privates like Gannon can just discount tuition but that's still costing the school money. Many D3 schools draw the same (or better) than D2 schools.

I'm sure one of you will add to this but does the NAIA play by the same rules? Meaning, do NAIA schools have to have the same number of sports for boys and girls (or, the same amount of participants)? If not, then that possibly changes the conversation some.

The other reality is would Bluefield or Salem, etc., really do any better on the D3 level? In D2 they are usually playing the role of non-conference smackdown opponent (for pay).

NAIA requires schools to sponsor a minimum of 6 sports, I believe it is 3 men's and 3 women's sports. That's four less than D2.

Additionally, NAIA sports have lower scholarship limits. For example, football has a cap of 24 scholarships. Also, NAIA also counts aid differently too: All institutional aid counts as athletic scholarships. The only exemptions are for federal and state aid, external scholarships that the students get on their own, and students that are above certain academic cutoffs are not counted toward the limit.

It seems like it could be really easy for a school to cut down on costs in the NAIA if they really want to.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

So other than the fact that the GMAC has Ohio schools in it and the fact that Ashland is a private school, what is this great "common bond" that is pulling them inexorably to the GMAC?

You asked what might be hindering Ashland from making the jump. I listed their lack of history/bond as a hindrance, not a selling point.

[UFOILERFAN]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

So other than the fact that the GMAC has Ohio schools in it and the fact that Ashland is a private school, what is this great "common bond" that is pulling them inexorably to the GMAC?

That's it. Ashland is a private Ohio school. I think they are very happy in the GLIAC and there is no good reason for them to leave. The GMAC needs one more football playing school, two if AB leaves, and waiting on Ashland borders on the ridiculous.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

The whole thing about D&E/Ohio Valley eventually going NAIA/D3 I think is our projecting what is "best" for them. Doesn't seem like either is particularly concerned about how good their programs are as they have generally been bad for a very, very long time so the chance to be "better" as an NAIA/D3 program doesn't seem to be something that would move them (at least it hasn't yet). Likewise scholly costs probably wouldn't move them as there is no minimum number of schollys a DII must offer so conceivably they could offer zero. Their travel is primarily through Ohio and WV...think it would be pretty much a wash with NAIA/D3 travel if they dropped down. Not saying they shouldn't leave DII or even that they won't...there just doesn't seem to be any motivation for them to do it and if I've seen anything with these two schools, if they aren't motivated to do something, they won't do it.

Cost-wise ... yeah, no improvement going from D2 to D3. Helmets and pads cost the same. You could probably make a case some D3's in states like PA actually spend more. PSAC schools give out scholarships based on 'raised' money (donors). That's not costing the school anything. The privates like Gannon can just discount tuition but that's still costing the school money. Many D3 schools draw the same (or better) than D2 schools.

I'm sure one of you will add to this but does the NAIA play by the same rules? Meaning, do NAIA schools have to have the same number of sports for boys and girls (or, the same amount of participants)? If not, then that possibly changes the conversation some.

The other reality is would Bluefield or Salem, etc., really do any better on the D3 level? In D2 they are usually playing the role of non-conference smackdown opponent (for pay).

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

What I think the possible reasons are:

1) The desire to play in a powerhouse conference / The perception of leaving a powerhouse conference.
2) History. Ashland was in the GLIAC before the other OH schools joined, and has a longer history with those schools. They left the MOC/AMC NAIA conference way before the other OH schools did. In fact, many of the OH schools came into the MOC/AMC after Ashland had already left, so they never played together.
3) History part 2. To my knowledge, Ashland was never involved in the plans to create an OH D2 conference. All of the other OH schools were (LEC not at the onset, but got on board). They have been happy in the GLIAC
4) The G-MAC footprint is still a bit far-flung and unsettled. Huge concentration of schools in OH, then there are schools spread out in WV, TN and KY. At some point, the G-MAC kind of needs to pick a direction to expand into and solidify that territory. Unfortunately, that comes at the expense of "the other side of the footprint". I have a hunch that Ashland wants that straightened out before they consider coming aboard.

I really don't think the MEC has a chance at Ashland.

So other than the fact that the GMAC has Ohio schools in it and the fact that Ashland is a private school, what is this great "common bond" that is pulling them inexorably to the GMAC?

[cneagle99]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

It would seem that AB now will have to choose between the two conferences.


Tell me that's not some irony.

Haha--agreed.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I think Ashland to the the GMAC is a question of when, not if. My read of the interaction was that they (Ashland) was interested, but the timing was not right. To me, that means they are waiting for something to shake out with the GMAC, which could mean a few things:

1. They want to move with another school and they need to line both schools up....(Indianapolis?)
2. They are waiting to see if schools leave the GMAC...(TNU, KWU, WV schools), thus making the GMAC more enticing. Dropping the 7 hour plus trip to Nashville can't be a bad thing in their eyes for example.
3. They may just be waiting to see how the young conference plays out before committing and more specifically, how the integration of the GLIAC schools (particularly Hillsdale and Findlay) works.

Ashland knows that they are a "get" for the GMAC so they can play the waiting game. But, I also don't see them moving to the MEC. If the GMAC, made up of similar and closer schools, couldn't get them, the MEC won't be able to either.

To me the waiting game now is on AB. Which conference do they want to be in? Are there still hurt feelings? I assume the MEC would take them in a heartbeat at this point--as they would appear to be the best out there (along with Frostburg) to replace either Shepherd or Wise. It would seem that AB now will have to choose between the two conferences.

If AB goes MEC, what then becomes of D&E and Ohio Valley? My gut is they will hang on for a while, but eventually go NAIA or D3. Moving either together or with D&E going NAIA and OVU D3. Eventually, being in the bottom of the standings and the travel (for D&E) will force a move--a la Brevard in the SAC.

If the above happens, I think it speeds up Ashland's transition to the GMAC.

More long term would be TNU eventually moving to the Gulf South. Really don't see KWU going anywhere.

**This is all just speculation, I have no firm info other than a few high placed alums at a GMAC school.

The whole thing about D&E/Ohio Valley eventually going NAIA/D3 I think is our projecting what is "best" for them. Doesn't seem like either is particularly concerned about how good their programs are as they have generally been bad for a very, very long time so the chance to be "better" as an NAIA/D3 program doesn't seem to be something that would move them (at least it hasn't yet). Likewise scholly costs probably wouldn't move them as there is no minimum number of schollys a DII must offer so conceivably they could offer zero. Their travel is primarily through Ohio and WV...think it would be pretty much a wash with NAIA/D3 travel if they dropped down. Not saying they shouldn't leave DII or even that they won't...there just doesn't seem to be any motivation for them to do it and if I've seen anything with these two schools, if they aren't motivated to do something, they won't do it.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

1. They want to move with another school and they need to line both schools up....(Indianapolis?)
2. They are waiting to see if schools leave the GMAC...(TNU, KWU, WV schools), thus making the GMAC more enticing. Dropping the 7 hour plus trip to Nashville can't be a bad thing in their eyes for example.
3. They may just be waiting to see how the young conference plays out before committing and more specifically, how the integration of the GLIAC schools (particularly Hillsdale and Findlay) works.

Ashland knows that they are a "get" for the GMAC so they can play the waiting game. But, I also don't see them moving to the MEC. If the GMAC, made up of similar and closer schools, couldn't get them, the MEC won't be able to either.

To me the waiting game now is on AB.

Agree

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Hahaha...funny...NOT!!!!!

Just my opinion but I think the whole "travel savings" is just a canard foisted by Shepherd leadership to do what they wanted to do and that wasn't necessarily to join the PSAC. No what they REALLY wanted was to have that game against Shippensburg back on their schedule! Wim'ie LOVES him some Raiders and would do ANYTHING to play with them again!!!

You're just jealous that you don't have a football rival who gives a damn about WLU. In fact, no one else in the MEC has a remotely similar rival.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

It would seem that AB now will have to choose between the two conferences.


Tell me that's not some irony.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Concerning Ashland, I believe you when you say they have a standing invitation to the GMAC. But twice now they have refused to join most recently earlier this year saying the GMAC isn't a good fit for them at this time. Question I have is, what is the issue they have with the GMAC that is making them soooo hesitant?

Side question is, would they have the same issue if approached by the MEC?

What I think the possible reasons are:

1) The desire to play in a powerhouse conference / The perception of leaving a powerhouse conference.
2) History. Ashland was in the GLIAC before the other OH schools joined, and has a longer history with those schools. They left the MOC/AMC NAIA conference way before the other OH schools did. In fact, many of the OH schools came into the MOC/AMC after Ashland had already left, so they never played together.
3) History part 2. To my knowledge, Ashland was never involved in the plans to create an OH D2 conference. All of the other OH schools were (LEC not at the onset, but got on board). They have been happy in the GLIAC
4) The G-MAC footprint is still a bit far-flung and unsettled. Huge concentration of schools in OH, then there are schools spread out in WV, TN and KY. At some point, the G-MAC kind of needs to pick a direction to expand into and solidify that territory. Unfortunately, that comes at the expense of "the other side of the footprint". I have a hunch that Ashland wants that straightened out before they consider coming aboard.

I really don't think the MEC has a chance at Ashland.

[cneagle99]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

You are spot on about Urbana. But I think regardless of how people look at them (small school or small campus of a much larger school), it seem pretty clear that the move under Franklins operating budget (and control) has made them much more stable. While there is no public statement from Franklin about weather they are going to keep Urbana open, I would say the recent additions of athletic programs gives a good indication. Remember, Franklin is a for profit entity so every dollar they spend starting a program is a dollar off their bottom line. If they were intent, or even seriously thinking about, closing Urbana, they probably wouldn't be starting programs.

Concerning Ashland, I believe you when you say they have a standing invitation to the GMAC. But twice now they have refused to join most recently earlier this year saying the GMAC isn't a good fit for them at this time. Question I have is, what is the issue they have with the GMAC that is making them soooo hesitant? Side question is, would they have the same issue if approached by the MEC? Don't know the answer to either of those questions but given Shepherds departure and the alleged need to bring on another Ohio university, I think it is at least worth it for the MEC to ask. Worst they can do is say no outright...but they could say, were listening, tell us more.

I think Ashland to the the GMAC is a question of when, not if. My read of the interaction was that they (Ashland) was interested, but the timing was not right. To me, that means they are waiting for something to shake out with the GMAC, which could mean a few things:

1. They want to move with another school and they need to line both schools up....(Indianapolis?)
2. They are waiting to see if schools leave the GMAC...(TNU, KWU, WV schools), thus making the GMAC more enticing. Dropping the 7 hour plus trip to Nashville can't be a bad thing in their eyes for example.
3. They may just be waiting to see how the young conference plays out before committing and more specifically, how the integration of the GLIAC schools (particularly Hillsdale and Findlay) works.

Ashland knows that they are a "get" for the GMAC so they can play the waiting game. But, I also don't see them moving to the MEC. If the GMAC, made up of similar and closer schools, couldn't get them, the MEC won't be able to either.

To me the waiting game now is on AB. Which conference do they want to be in? Are there still hurt feelings? I assume the MEC would take them in a heartbeat at this point--as they would appear to be the best out there (along with Frostburg) to replace either Shepherd or Wise. It would seem that AB now will have to choose between the two conferences.

If AB goes MEC, what then becomes of D&E and Ohio Valley? My gut is they will hang on for a while, but eventually go NAIA or D3. Moving either together or with D&E going NAIA and OVU D3. Eventually, being in the bottom of the standings and the travel (for D&E) will force a move--a la Brevard in the SAC.

If the above happens, I think it speeds up Ashland's transition to the GMAC.

More long term would be TNU eventually moving to the Gulf South. Really don't see KWU going anywhere.

**This is all just speculation, I have no firm info other than a few high placed alums at a GMAC school.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

That's the argument for them to stay in the GLIAC. If they are waiting for the GMAC to become the GLIAC, they probably are going to be waiting for a while!

Exactly. That's why I think they are not jumping to the GMAC. If you're SEC football ... not going to jump at the chance to join the Big East.