Salem University Football

[Uindy18]

Hello all,

I am doing a little bit of a research project, and I hope there are a few people on here that may be able to help.

Current DII Independent Salem had a strong football program in the 1970s before they cut the program in 1989. A lot of big names around West Virginia football made their way through Salem as players and coaches such as Jimbo Fisher, Rich Rodriguez, Ed Pastilong, Jack Deloplaine, Terry Bowden, and Bill Stewart.

I am curious if anyone on here remembers anything of those times in Salem, or knows of stories from that time period, or if they have anything interesting about the idea of bringing football back at Salem.

I always thought they belong in the MEC, and if they had football, that they probably would be in the MEC today. If Salem added football tomorrow, would that be exciting news in the MEC football landscape?

Just trying to get a sense of what Salem football would mean for the greater West Virginia sports landscape. Thanks in advance for any input you may have.

[ctrabs74]

I always thought they belong in the MEC, and if they had football, that they probably would be in the MEC today. If Salem added football tomorrow, would that be exciting news in the MEC football landscape?

Salem's athletic program was in such disarray, they were pushed out of the G-MAC. That pretty much sums up how unlikely it is that Salem ends up in the MEC.

[Uindy18]

Salem's athletic program was in such disarray, they were pushed out of the G-MAC. That pretty much sums up how unlikely it is that Salem ends up in the MEC.

Fair point, but they seem to have stabilized some things in the past 7 years since those issues. Men's basketball seems to be their strongest program, and they are at least on par with the middle teams of the MEC. They seem to have weirdly competitive water polo programs too.

In a universe where a lot of schools are constantly worried about lowering costs, why would the central WV contingent of the MEC (AB,DE, Fairmont, Glenville, WVWC) really get behind adding Salem, especially if bringing football back was on the table?

[boatcapt]

Fair point, but they seem to have stabilized some things in the past 7 years since those issues. Men's basketball seems to be their strongest program, and they are at least on par with the middle teams of the MEC. They seem to have weirdly competitive water polo programs too.

In a universe where a lot of schools are constantly worried about lowering costs, why would the central WV contingent of the MEC (AB,DE, Fairmont, Glenville, WVWC) really get behind adding Salem, especially if bringing football back was on the table?

Salem was part of the non-football playing contingent in the WVIAC. They constantly voted against doing anything to improve the level of general athletic play and against conference expansion. Ultimately, this contingents unwillingness to vote for increased football playing membership in the WVIAC resulted in the football playing schools leaving the conference to form the MEC. The remaining WVIAC schools, having gotten their way, could have continued with the WVIAC but they also chose to leave. Having helped in the destruction of the WVIAC, they joined the GMAC but pretty quickly wore out their welcome there as well. Now some are advocating for the MEC to add them.

Just as I was against inviting D&E into the MEC, I am against any move to add Salem....They mad their bed.

[Uindy18]

Salem was part of the non-football playing contingent in the WVIAC. They constantly voted against doing anything to improve the level of general athletic play and against conference expansion. Ultimately, this contingents unwillingness to vote for increased football playing membership in the WVIAC resulted in the football playing schools leaving the conference to form the MEC. The remaining WVIAC schools, having gotten their way, could have continued with the WVIAC but they also chose to leave. Having helped in the destruction of the WVIAC, they joined the GMAC but pretty quickly wore out their welcome there as well. Now some are advocating for the MEC to add them.

Just as I was against inviting D&E into the MEC, I am against any move to add Salem....They mad their bed.

Interesting, I had not heard those takes on the end of the WVIAC before. While I understand some of the issues with the WVIAC split and the end of the GMAC tenure, I still think they could find a way back into the MEC sooner or later. If you look at it today, I think that WVWC, AB, D&E, Glenville, Frostburg and maybe Fairmont State would be YES votes on pure geography, The question would be West Liberty, Wheeling, Charleston, Concord, West Virginia State and NDC. There ever was a shift amongst the no group, then Salem could find their way in.

Outside of the Salem discussion, what would be your thoughts on WV Tech? Are they really adding football like they claimed?

[crixus]

Interesting, I had not heard those takes on the end of the WVIAC before. While I understand some of the issues with the WVIAC split and the end of the GMAC tenure, I still think they could find a way back into the MEC sooner or later. If you look at it today, I think that WVWC, AB, D&E, Glenville, Frostburg and maybe Fairmont State would be YES votes on pure geography, The question would be West Liberty, Wheeling, Charleston, Concord, West Virginia State and NDC. There ever was a shift amongst the no group, then Salem could find their way in.

Outside of the Salem discussion, what would be your thoughts on WV Tech? Are they really adding football like they claimed?

Yes, in Feb. of 2022 WV Tech announced that they plan to bring back Golden Bears football. My thoughts are, go for it. The more football teams in WV, the better!

https://www.register-herald.com/news...6f1cb927f.html

[Uindy18]

Yes, in Feb. of 2022 WV Tech announced that they plan to bring back Golden Bears football. My thoughts are, go for it. The more football teams in WV, the better!

https://www.register-herald.com/news...6f1cb927f.html

I agree. Ultimately, I would push for Salem and WV Tech in the MEC because I feel the best thing for WV sports (outside of WVU and Marshall) is to have a solid DII conference based around WV. Basically, a rebirth of the old WVIAC without the PA schools, and unfortunately without OVU (RIP Fighting Scots). While next to impossible, Shepherd belongs back in the MEC as well.

[Uindy18]

Also, in case anyone was curious, here is a quick series a WV news channel did on Salem Football, features quite a few of those recognizable names:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGMPbsB7hyM
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpWRALIz8Go
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDbPbcOZTGw

[boatcapt]

Interesting, I had not heard those takes on the end of the WVIAC before. While I understand some of the issues with the WVIAC split and the end of the GMAC tenure, I still think they could find a way back into the MEC sooner or later. If you look at it today, I think that WVWC, AB, D&E, Glenville, Frostburg and maybe Fairmont State would be YES votes on pure geography, The question would be West Liberty, Wheeling, Charleston, Concord, West Virginia State and NDC. There ever was a shift amongst the no group, then Salem could find their way in.

Outside of the Salem discussion, what would be your thoughts on WV Tech? Are they really adding football like they claimed?

There's a big difference between what I would do if I were the "king of the MEC" and what they do. Pretty clear that the MEC likes being the size they are Ref WV Tech, much would depend on if they start football. Don't want another Wheeling senario were they promised to start football to secure an offer from the MEC then hemmed and hawed for several years before starting. IF WVT had a football team in place, I'd seriously consider adding them. The current situation at WVT is quite different than were they were when the dropped out of the WVIAC, dropped football and dropped down to NAIA.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

There's a big difference between what I would do if I were the "king of the MEC" and what they do. Pretty clear that the MEC likes being the size they are Ref WV Tech, much would depend on if they start football. Don't want another Wheeling senario were they promised to start football to secure an offer from the MEC then hemmed and hawed for several years before starting. IF WVT had a football team in place, I'd seriously consider adding them. The current situation at WVT is quite different than were they were when the dropped out of the WVIAC, dropped football and dropped down to NAIA.

Things will keep changing. I suspect the PSAC has a couple schools vanish in the coming years. The ND to the GMAC theory still seems to exist in many circles. How much longer can Wheeling keeps the lights on?

The PSAC 'triads' aren't going to last forever.

As for Shepherd, I don't see them going back. While in WV, they are geographically closer to much of the PSAC East than they are to much of WV. They have a close neighbor in Shippensburg, etc.

As for Salem, do they have the means to re-start football?

[boatcapt]

Things will keep changing. I suspect the PSAC has a couple schools vanish in the coming years. The ND to the GMAC theory still seems to exist in many circles. How much longer can Wheeling keeps the lights on?

The PSAC 'triads' aren't going to last forever.

As for Shepherd, I don't see them going back. While in WV, they are geographically closer to much of the PSAC East than they are to much of WV. They have a close neighbor in Shippensburg, etc.

As for Salem, do they have the means to re-start football?

My ultimate question ref Salem is what do they DO for the MEC? How do they make the conference stronger? Beyond "driving distance" for a couple of schools, what do they bring to the table? While history can be changed (ref the turn around at WV Tech and Wheeling), I don't really see where Salem has changed much from their WVIAC days. So again I ask, what do they bring to the MEC table?

Does Salem have money for football? Don't know their exact situation, but I would speculate they do not. That is certainly a strike against them joining the MEC. Notionally whatever team ultimately joins the MEC, they are doing so as a "replacement" for UNCP which was in the MEC for football. Bringing in a non-football school makes little sense.

Concerning NDC, as I've pointed out numerous times, history says that NDC is happy in the MEC and has no intentions of leaving. Maybe things change in the future but absent a dramatic change in circumstance, they don't seem to be going anywhere.

I too see the PSAC contracting due to school/program closures. There are any number of wacky ways this could play out but it's not an obsurd senario that would see the PSAC "condense" to one division. Would that be enough for Shepherd to want to move back to the MEC? Don't know...maybe...maybe not. If I were King of the MEC, I'd certainly take the phone call and discuss but I'd also make Shepherd pay some sort of "conference flip-flop" penalty to come back.

The whole Shepherd moved to the PSAC because of "driving distance" was a canard. I did an exercise a few years ago about the PSAC driving distance for Shepherd vs the MEC distance. PSAC came out slightly on top but not by much as people would have you think. I don't remember the exact number but it was on the order of 5-10 miles, and Ithat included Urbana and i'm pretty sure UNCP in the mix. Shepherds move was driven solely by two things, their desire to play Shippensburg and the desire of their Vice President of Athletics.

I wonder how the PSAC contracture will play out and how that effects the "non-PASSHE" schools in the conference (Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill, Shepherd, Pitt-J). One could certainly 'line out" a senario where all the non-PA and non-Public schools are bounced and the PSAC becomes a nice, tight 12 team PA-public only conference. Heck, maybe the even add Lincoln (PA).

[Uindy18]

All interesting points on Shepherd and the future of the PSAC. Many have speculated that if the PSAC were to shrink in any way, Fairmont State and West Liberty could be next on the expansion track.

Back to the original topic, I would say Salem adds a few things to the MEC.

1. Stability to the central WV contingent: DE, AB, and WVWC have all been connected to financial problems in recent years. Adding a school that could aid somewhat in keeping their costs down would be beneficial for them, and the stability of the conference.

2. A competitive program for basketball, at least: Last season, for example, Salem MBB beat Glenville twice, WVWC twice, Concord, and took AB to overtime. They are not going to be a top 2 team by any means, but they have a MEC caliber basketball program. As for other sports, I would say Baseball, softball, and maybe men's soccer seem to be competitive with most MEC programs.

3.Historical Connections: While I know history doesn't pay any bills, Salem does have nearly 100 years worth of history in playing WVWC, AB, Fairmont, etc. That doesn't mean nothing.

As for the capability of Salem to really add football, nothing has been announced or even rumored really. After a little research, I could see a realistic scenario in which Salem plays up the road at Doddridge County HS, which has one of the best facilities in the area, and would be at least on par with other MEC programs. If they were serious about adding 100+ to their overall enrollment, exploring adding football is not a terrible idea for them.

[boatcapt]

All interesting points on Shepherd and the future of the PSAC. Many have speculated that if the PSAC were to shrink in any way, Fairmont State and West Liberty could be next on the expansion track.

Back to the original topic, I would say Salem adds a few things to the MEC.

1. Stability to the central WV contingent: DE, AB, and WVWC have all been connected to financial problems in recent years. Adding a school that could aid somewhat in keeping their costs down would be beneficial for them, and the stability of the conference.

2. A competitive program for basketball, at least: Last season, for example, Salem MBB beat Glenville twice, WVWC twice, Concord, and took AB to overtime. They are not going to be a top 2 team by any means, but they have a MEC caliber basketball program. As for other sports, I would say Baseball, softball, and maybe men's soccer seem to be competitive with mo
3.Historical Connections: While I know history doesn't pay any bills, Salem does have nearly 100 years worth of history in playing WVWC, AB, Fairmont, etc. That doesn't mean nothing.

As for the capability of Salem to really add football, nothing has been announced or even rumored really. After a little research, I could see a realistic scenario in which Salem plays up the road at Doddridge County HS, which has one of the best facilities in the area, and would be at least on par with other MEC programs. If they were serious about adding 100+ to their overall enrollment, exploring adding football is not a terrible idea for them.

The PSAC does have a history of poaching.

"Historical connection" is more an excuse for joining a conference than it is a reason. If it were such a driver, NDC would have left the MEC and Shepherd never would have. Also depends on the reputation of a school when they left. Salem didn't have a good reputation as a "competitive" member and their actions that lead to the demise of the WVIAC makes me wonder if there is a burning historic desire to have them back.

As for finding a place to play, I would think this would be a very small part of the equation right up there with should we have stripes on our pants. I don't think there is ever a school that has said we were all for starting football and had all the money in place, but we just couldn't find a place to play so we scrapped the idea. Conversley, probably never happened that a school said we really didn't want to play football but there was such a great stadium down the road that we were kind of forced into it.

At the end of the day, Salem is a small, financially strapped college that doesn't (can't?) commit much to intercollegiate athletics. A school who's actions lead to the demise of one conference and lead them to being shown the door in a second. A school that at best would be a lower middle of the pack partisipant in a couple of sports and doesn't even play the key sport in the conference.

Now all that said, could the MEC invite them? Sure, they invited D&E in so why not.

[ESU Warrior]

The PSAC does have a history of poaching.

"Historical connection" is more an excuse for joining a conference than it is a reason. If it were such a driver, NDC would have left the MEC and Shepherd never would have. Also depends on the reputation of a school when they left. Salem didn't have a good reputation as a "competitive" member and their actions that lead to the demise of the WVIAC makes me wonder if there is a burning historic desire to have them back.

As for finding a place to play, I would think this would be a very small part of the equation right up there with should we have stripes on our pants. I don't think there is ever a school that has said we were all for starting football and had all the money in place, but we just couldn't find a place to play so we scrapped the idea. Conversley, probably never happened that a school said we really didn't want to play football but there was such a great stadium down the road that we were kind of forced into it.

At the end of the day, Salem is a small, financially strapped college that doesn't (can't?) commit much to intercollegiate athletics. A school who's actions lead to the demise of one conference and lead them to being shown the door in a second. A school that at best would be a lower middle of the pack partisipant in a couple of sports and doesn't even play the key sport in the conference.

Now all that said, could the MEC invite them? Sure, they invited D&E in so why not.

A history of poaching? Please give examples....

[boatcapt]

A history of poaching? Please give examples....

2007 Mansfield shutters their football program. PSAC poaches LIU Post from neighbor NE10.
2013 Seton Hill from the former neighbor WVIAC moves their football program to the PSAC. PSAC punts LIU Post back to the NE10.
2018 Cheyney leaves the PSAC, PSAC poaches Shepherd from neighbor MEC.

Other poaches:

2008 Gannon from neighbor GLIAC
2008 Mercyhurst from neighbor GLIAC