NIL to D2 Dominance?

[ClarionNoob]

During one of my recent and too often drinking sessions with some friends we stumbled across this idea: if a Division II school leaned all the way into NIL, could find some corporate backers, they could build a true powerhouse program. Not by breaking rules, but by creating a well-run collective that raises serious money, pays athletes for real marketing work, and positions the school as “a D1 experience at the D2 level.”

I know a few claim this now , GVSU, Pitt State etc.

But what about doing this with a small less established school? Imagine a corporate driven / alumni assisted fund that guarantees every scholarship player a baseline NIL deal, while giving stars bigger packages through sponsorships, community events, and social media campaigns. Pair that with an aggressive recruiting pitch—more exposure, and more money than sitting on a bench at a big school—and suddenly you’re a magnet for talent.

At its core this is a pipe dream because we know that money doesn’t exist where eyeballs aren’t looking. But one rich dude could basically turn any D2 program into a contender overnight.

With $2–5M annually, the right infrastructure, and a little vision, you could actually flip the D2 landscape on its head and take any D2 team and make them a power house.

If the House settlement expands (which it may) you could see the revenue share model possibly creep to D2, if that happens schools could pay players directly like D1 but NIL would do in the meantime.


Just a D2 school with a D1 NIL ecosystem.

I’m sure this has been discussed , but just thought it was a fun mental exercise.

[iupgroundhog]

That would be a sad day for D2 Football.

[boatcapt]

Only two ways for NIL to provide meaningful $s to potential recruits:

1. A well healed donor(s) with a business chooses to give NIL $s to the school.
2. Businesses perceive a bottom line benefit for engaging athletes in their advertisements.

Absent one of those two things, DII NIL dollars will have almost zero true impact on recruiting.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

You'd need one (rogue) whale donor.

Our schools are in tiny towns. Indiana had an advantage because it had two medium-sized banks headquartered here along with some coal money.

There just aren't many companies of any size in the majority of PSAC towns.

IUP had such a potential donor emerge with Chad Hurley. He did donate some money but I don't think any went to football.

Our schools typically don't produce mega wealthy individuals.

Most of our towns are full of local State Farm guys cutting a $200 check or Bob's Hyundai dealership giving $500.

Corporations cutting mega bucks need to get some form of return. Unless it's a private company and the owner is a mega-rich alumni with a passion for the program, it would make no sense for them to invest in a product the public doesn't care about.

What you'd find absolutely shocking is most (all?) of our programs do not have a full-time athletics fundraiser position. Some did, but did away with them.

I haven't been solicited to give money to IUP in at least 5-6 years.

Under past regimes I'd get called monthly (or more).

In general, you don't get what you don't ask for.

The longer you are around you'll see how maddening it is to be a D2 fan. The sport is great. The financial management is beyond horrendous.

[IUP24]

During one of my recent and too often drinking sessions with some friends we stumbled across this idea: if a Division II school leaned all the way into NIL, could find some corporate backers, they could build a true powerhouse program. Not by breaking rules, but by creating a well-run collective that raises serious money, pays athletes for real marketing work, and positions the school as “a D1 experience at the D2 level.”

I know a few claim this now , GVSU, Pitt State etc.

But what about doing this with a small less established school? Imagine a corporate driven / alumni assisted fund that guarantees every scholarship player a baseline NIL deal, while giving stars bigger packages through sponsorships, community events, and social media campaigns. Pair that with an aggressive recruiting pitch—more exposure, and more money than sitting on a bench at a big school—and suddenly you’re a magnet for talent.

At its core this is a pipe dream because we know that money doesn’t exist where eyeballs aren’t looking. But one rich dude could basically turn any D2 program into a contender overnight.

With $2–5M annually, the right infrastructure, and a little vision, you could actually flip the D2 landscape on its head and take any D2 team and make them a power house.

If the House settlement expands (which it may) you could see the revenue share model possibly creep to D2, if that happens schools could pay players directly like D1 but NIL would do in the meantime.


Just a D2 school with a D1 NIL ecosystem.

I’m sure this has been discussed , but just thought it was a fun mental exercise.

I don't foresee the House settlement expanding below the Division 1 level for the foreseeable future. The amount of red tape, logistics, etc., that simply went into getting it in place for Division 1 (and it almost didn't get across the finish line) was just insane. To create a system like that which expands into the Division 2 level is probably not logistically possible. I suppose the money would be significantly different (it wouldn't be 20.5 million dollars). But I would question how much is even feasible for the most financially sound universities and athletic departments at this level.

The House settlement was passed for two reasons (this is going back early on prior to it being adjudicated in the courts)...

1) There was an understanding that this would limit future financial lawsuits which would have resulted in significant financial losses against the NCAA and member schools. The consensus was that paying the student athletes under this agreement while also settling a large civil suit over a ten year period was a better long-term solution than being taken to court where they may have ended up paying more money overall.

2) This was also agreed to by each of the FBS conferences. Each league had their own discussions and they determined if they wanted to say "yes" or "no" to this potential solution as a whole. It was then expanded to allow for FCS schools to "opt in."

I think the challenge at the D2 level is that I have a very hard time believing that even half the participating members would even want to opt into a system like this. I think the total balance sheets at most of universities is tighter than most believe. At the Division 1 level, major schools are just taking the football money and re-investing it into other areas of the university and athletic department. The budget looks tight at the end of the year, but ultimately, it's simply how they are choosing to spend that money. Now... They may not be putting all of that money where they were previously, as it's now just going into the revenue sharing pot. The challenge is I'm not sure that slush fund is there at this level because nobody has a rich television deal or a 90,000 seat stadium that is making profit every home game. So I'm not sure where the money is coming from at our level to create a similar structure.

It would have to be a clearly defined NIL driven environment if you were to do what you are suggesting at the D2 level. The challenge now is that with the creation of the College Sports Commision, you can't just say, "Yeah, I'm going to get a bunch of boosters, business owners, and alumni together and pay a bunch of people NIL money." You USED to be able to do that over the last few years (even though it wasn't necessarily the intent of NIL), but you cannot do that now. All the deals have to be approved through the NIL GO clearinghouse. And they won't approve a football player in Pittsburg, Kansas getting 400,000 dollars to appear on a billboard for a car dealership. Those days are over. And a lot of people are having a challenging time coming to grips with that, but that's now how it is.

You would need the following...

1. A school located in or around a densely populated area that could be considered an urban/metropolitan area.
2. A surrounding area that would allow itself to be considered a strong marketing area where growth and business transactions have clear value (part of the NIL Go evaluation - you can't get 1 million dollars to be on a billboard in Pittsburg, Kansas or Maryville, Missouri).
3. Enough businesses that could offer student athletes legitimate NIL value in terms of an actual exchange of services for payment.
4. Strong alumni and booster network that has community connections within the surrounding area to work with businesses to find those NIL opportunities (remember, collectives have essentially been neutered now).

I don't know what schools fit that criteria at this level. Maybe Grand Valley State? The University of Tampa doesn't have football, but they'd fit that criteria.

It's a thought provoking exercise.

[IUP24]

You'd need one (rogue) whale donor.

Our schools are in tiny towns. Indiana had an advantage because it had two medium-sized banks headquartered here along with some coal money.

There just aren't many companies of any size in the majority of PSAC towns.

IUP had such a potential donor emerge with Chad Hurley. He did donate some money but I don't think any went to football.

Our schools typically don't produce mega wealthy individuals.

Most of our towns are full of local State Farm guys cutting a $200 check or Bob's Hyundai dealership giving $500.

Corporations cutting mega bucks need to get some form of return. Unless it's a private company and the owner is a mega-rich alumni with a passion for the program, it would make no sense for them to invest in a product the public doesn't care about.

What you'd find absolutely shocking is most (all?) of our programs do not have a full-time athletics fundraiser position. Some did, but did away with them.

I haven't been solicited to give money to IUP in at least 5-6 years.

Under past regimes I'd get called monthly (or more).

In general, you don't get what you don't ask for.

The longer you are around you'll see how maddening it is to be a D2 fan. The sport is great. The financial management is beyond horrendous.

It doesn't matter how rogue the whale donor is. The exchange of NIL money has to be approved and determined to be of legitimate market value for the services provided.

[Ship69]

You'd need one (rogue) whale donor.

Our schools are in tiny towns. Indiana had an advantage because it had two medium-sized banks headquartered here along with some coal money.

There just aren't many companies of any size in the majority of PSAC towns.

IUP had such a potential donor emerge with Chad Hurley. He did donate some money but I don't think any went to football.

Our schools typically don't produce mega wealthy individuals.

Most of our towns are full of local State Farm guys cutting a $200 check or Bob's Hyundai dealership giving $500.

Corporations cutting mega bucks need to get some form of return. Unless it's a private company and the owner is a mega-rich alumni with a passion for the program, it would make no sense for them to invest in a product the public doesn't care about.

What you'd find absolutely shocking is most (all?) of our programs do not have a full-time athletics fundraiser position. Some did, but did away with them.

I haven't been solicited to give money to IUP in at least 5-6 years.

Under past regimes I'd get called monthly (or more).

In general, you don't get what you don't ask for.

The longer you are around you'll see how maddening it is to be a D2 fan. The sport is great. The financial management is beyond horrendous.

I agree. We can't get anything even approaching adequate news coverage in most of our areas. As far as the Harrisburg TV market is concerned, Shippensburg and Millersville sports might as well not even exist. You'd need someone with an awful lot of dedication to the school to throw big money at the average PSAC program.

[ClarionNoob]

It doesn't matter how rogue the whale donor is. The exchange of NIL money has to be approved and determined to be of legitimate market value for the services provided.

That is not how collectives operate today. One donor can give to a collective and it can make up whatever percentage of the collective. That money is then utilized to generate NIL opportunities which can come in the form of anything. Events , signings , appearances etc..

[ClarionNoob]

I don't foresee the House settlement expanding below the Division 1 level for the foreseeable future. The amount of red tape, logistics, etc., that simply went into getting it in place for Division 1 (and it almost didn't get across the finish line) was just insane. To create a system like that which expands into the Division 2 level is probably not logistically possible. I suppose the money would be significantly different (it wouldn't be 20.5 million dollars). But I would question how much is even feasible for the most financially sound universities and athletic departments at this level.

The House settlement was passed for two reasons (this is going back early on prior to it being adjudicated in the courts)...

1) There was an understanding that this would limit future financial lawsuits which would have resulted in significant financial losses against the NCAA and member schools. The consensus was that paying the student athletes under this agreement while also settling a large civil suit over a ten year period was a better long-term solution than being taken to court where they may have ended up paying more money overall.

2) This was also agreed to by each of the FBS conferences. Each league had their own discussions and they determined if they wanted to say "yes" or "no" to this potential solution as a whole. It was then expanded to allow for FCS schools to "opt in."

I think the challenge at the D2 level is that I have a very hard time believing that even half the participating members would even want to opt into a system like this. I think the total balance sheets at most of universities is tighter than most believe. At the Division 1 level, major schools are just taking the football money and re-investing it into other areas of the university and athletic department. The budget looks tight at the end of the year, but ultimately, it's simply how they are choosing to spend that money. Now... They may not be putting all of that money where they were previously, as it's now just going into the revenue sharing pot. The challenge is I'm not sure that slush fund is there at this level because nobody has a rich television deal or a 90,000 seat stadium that is making profit every home game. So I'm not sure where the money is coming from at our level to create a similar structure.

It would have to be a clearly defined NIL driven environment if you were to do what you are suggesting at the D2 level. The challenge now is that with the creation of the College Sports Commision, you can't just say, "Yeah, I'm going to get a bunch of boosters, business owners, and alumni together and pay a bunch of people NIL money." You USED to be able to do that over the last few years (even though it wasn't necessarily the intent of NIL), but you cannot do that now. All the deals have to be approved through the NIL GO clearinghouse. And they won't approve a football player in Pittsburg, Kansas getting 400,000 dollars to appear on a billboard for a car dealership. Those days are over. And a lot of people are having a challenging time coming to grips with that, but that's now how it is.

You would need the following...

1. A school located in or around a densely populated area that could be considered an urban/metropolitan area.
2. A surrounding area that would allow itself to be considered a strong marketing area where growth and business transactions have clear value (part of the NIL Go evaluation - you can't get 1 million dollars to be on a billboard in Pittsburg, Kansas or Maryville, Missouri).
3. Enough businesses that could offer student athletes legitimate NIL value in terms of an actual exchange of services for payment.
4. Strong alumni and booster network that has community connections within the surrounding area to work with businesses to find those NIL opportunities (remember, collectives have essentially been neutered now).

I don't know what schools fit that criteria at this level. Maybe Grand Valley State? The University of Tampa doesn't have football, but they'd fit that criteria.

It's a thought provoking exercise.

I agree I don’t know if the revenue share falls down. But I will say most thought that FCS schools wouldn’t do it , and all but around 50 did.

20million is the cap , it’s 20 million or 20%.

[ClarionNoob]

You'd need one (rogue) whale donor.

Our schools are in tiny towns. Indiana had an advantage because it had two medium-sized banks headquartered here along with some coal money.

There just aren't many companies of any size in the majority of PSAC towns.

IUP had such a potential donor emerge with Chad Hurley. He did donate some money but I don't think any went to football.

Our schools typically don't produce mega wealthy individuals.

Most of our towns are full of local State Farm guys cutting a $200 check or Bob's Hyundai dealership giving $500.

Corporations cutting mega bucks need to get some form of return. Unless it's a private company and the owner is a mega-rich alumni with a passion for the program, it would make no sense for them to invest in a product the public doesn't care about.

What you'd find absolutely shocking is most (all?) of our programs do not have a full-time athletics fundraiser position. Some did, but did away with them.

I haven't been solicited to give money to IUP in at least 5-6 years.

Under past regimes I'd get called monthly (or more).

In general, you don't get what you don't ask for.

The longer you are around you'll see how maddening it is to be a D2 fan. The sport is great. The financial management is beyond horrendous.

Amazing point here. At Clarion they give tickets away , don’t ask or have a fundraising or booster arm that I have seen, and in Turn the players don’t get much free stuff like Tshirts or shorts etc.

Some D2’s give players an outfit for every day of the football season it seems like. How do schools get back into that ? Have the donors in Western PA all been tapped , or is it just too hard to even build a base with all the movement?

[IUP24]

That is not how collectives operate today. One donor can give to a collective and it can make up whatever percentage of the collective. That money is then utilized to generate NIL opportunities which can come in the form of anything. Events , signings , appearances etc..

Yeah, sure. Money utilized to generate NIL opportunities CAN come in the form of anything. And those NIL opportunities can be whatever you want them to be. But they can't just toss money at somebody that isn't legitimate market value. That's what nobody seems to be grasping that under the House settlement with the creation of the CSC and NIL GO.

If I'm a college athlete and you're a booster that's part of a collective, you may have guaranteed me X number of dollars in "NIL opportunities" when I committed to your school. If you say, "Hey Billy, I'll give you 100,000 dollars to show up to this trade show and sign autographs for two hours," I have to submit that NIL transaction to NIL GO before that payment is exchanged. The team in the clearinghouse may sit there and say (and probably will), that is only actually worth $5,000 based on all of these factors. So I'm only permitted to receive payment of $5,000.

That's how NIL works now. It's not about who has the most money anymore to pour into NIL. It's about who has the most legitimate opportunities that are worth the highest dollar value. You can't throw money at people and say it's NIL. That's what the revenue sharing money is for. Which is exactly why a majority of schools are utilizing collectives as fundraising arms to obtain money which then gets passed to the university to use as part of the revenue sharing money. That revenue sharing money can come from anywhere... University fund, television contract money, athletic department profit, donations, etc.

The House settlement effectively neutered collectives in terms of how they were using/abusing NIL, which is a good thing.

[IUP24]

I agree I don’t know if the revenue share falls down. But I will say most thought that FCS schools wouldn’t do it , and all but around 50 did.

20million is the cap , it’s 20 million or 20%.

The FCS schools opted in, but many of those schools are pumping the money into basketball. You have to consider that there are a number of FCS football playing schools that most don't even realize how football programs, or that don't have football at all. The other component is that you can opt in and not commit the 20.5 million dollars. You think that all of the FBS schools are doing that? I can assure the programs in the MAC and other smaller FBS programs are not.

The point is, there was no reason for those FCS schools to opt out. If you're Creighton, you don't need 20.5 million dollars to make your basketball team elite. You might need 5 million, and for a school their size, that might be doable.

The difference between the schools I'm referencing (FCS football schools, or just mid-major D1 basketball that plays at a really, really high level) and the D2 programs you are talking about is that there are legitimate television contracts that are out there which are generating revenue. I'm not sure where any additional cash is coming from for the vast majority of D2 athletic programs. Perhaps there's a local tv deal in place, but that would provide very, very limited dollars.

[IUP24]

Amazing point here. At Clarion they give tickets away , don’t ask or have a fundraising or booster arm that I have seen, and in Turn the players don’t get much free stuff like Tshirts or shorts etc.

Some D2’s give players an outfit for every day of the football season it seems like. How do schools get back into that ? Have the donors in Western PA all been tapped , or is it just too hard to even build a base with all the movement?

At a localized level, so few people care about the athletic programs you're talking about. We are all sickos who are posting on this message board. The reality is (and I truly mean the "reality") is that there really aren't many more of us out there. I can probably guarantee that the majority of the donors at most of these schools in the PSAC already post here or read this board frequently.

There are enough casual people out there to give a few bucks here and there, but major programs have major donors. And in this area, 95% (or more) of the people care significantly more about Pitt, Penn State, or West Virginia than anybody in the PSAC.

[ClarionNoob]

The FCS schools opted in, but many of those schools are pumping the money into basketball. You have to consider that there are a number of FCS football playing schools that most don't even realize how football programs, or that don't have football at all. The other component is that you can opt in and not commit the 20.5 million dollars. You think that all of the FBS schools are doing that? I can assure the programs in the MAC and other smaller FBS programs are not.

The point is, there was no reason for those FCS schools to opt out. If you're Creighton, you don't need 20.5 million dollars to make your basketball team elite. You might need 5 million, and for a school their size, that might be doable.

The difference between the schools I'm referencing (FCS football schools, or just mid-major D1 basketball that plays at a really, really high level) and the D2 programs you are talking about is that there are legitimate television contracts that are out there which are generating revenue. I'm not sure where any additional cash is coming from for the vast majority of D2 athletic programs. Perhaps there's a local tv deal in place, but that would provide very, very limited dollars.

I understand the intent of the NIL regulation and house settlement, however to tell me today that this will be run well, and organized and structured in a way that can be punish those who abuse it ? Like you said the House settlement was in response to keeping the NCAA in tact. That settlement may have attempted to neuter NIL collectives, but it also neutered a lot of the NCAA’s power.

Also some of these collectives are bigger than ever ! Tennessee has one that generates 25 mil a year still. That money is getting to players, so it could be done in D2 is all I’m saying.

My point in the post is also to say if even a fraction of some of the biggest collectives focused on a D2 school , they could turn the tides and one Whale could do it. The NCAA will still have limited power in all of this today what an athlete is worth or not, which is why this rushed settlement is such a mess. The minute they try to reject eligibility for a player because he took 20k and they felt it is worth 5k they open it all up again.

I will say I’m confused on your 20.5 million. My understanding is the revenue share is not 20.5 million that can be paid out to players , it’s 20% of a sports revenue or 20.5m whichever comes first right ? 20.5 is just the cap. And this is a concern in a sport like baseball where there is a small handful of schools that will dominate this because they do earn revenue where most don’t.

Also Title IX lawsuits , employment lawsuits are all stemming from this. Players are now employees of the university , can they unionize , do they get sick days, can they sue if injured on the job, not to mention do you even need to attend the school? If a college is willing to pay to play as an employee why do you need to take classes ? It’s still a mess being delivered over the next 5-8 years.

[ClarionNoob]

At a localized level, so few people care about the athletic programs you're talking about. We are all sickos who are posting on this message board. The reality is (and I truly mean the "reality") is that there really aren't many more of us out there. I can probably guarantee that the majority of the donors at most of these schools in the PSAC already post here or read this board frequently.

There are enough casual people out there to give a few bucks here and there, but major programs have major donors. And in this area, 95% (or more) of the people care significantly more about Pitt, Penn State, or West Virginia than anybody in the PSAC.

You are right , we are the chosen few who must save it !! 😃