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  • #16
    Goodness gracious there's a lot to unpack here. Let's start with the awards and then proceed to the Top 25 poll for D2football.

    As Luke mentioned the GAC weekly award nominations are the SIDs, and the All Conference award nominations are the HCs. So, if a player in on neither, then it is 99.9% of the time on the SIDs and HCs not nominating them. As for the Harlon Hill and its nominations, that is also the SIDs--across the entire D2 football nation. Many SIDs just vote for who they know and whose video game-like numbers they are familiar with. Does it have flaws? You bet, but until the Harlon Hill is reformed, that's the system we're stuck with.

    Now to Top 25 poll. As a current voter in the D2Football poll I can tell you I had SE listed in my Top 25 preseason. In fact, I thought preseason they were likely to win the conference when considering what they had coming back. However, I'm just one voter out of many, and unfortunately respect takes time to earn, and takes time to lose.

    As for the Top 25 poll last year. Yes, SE were 4-0 with the big win against Harding. Let me ask you do you really think wins against ATU, SWOSU, and SNU (teams that have either been down recently or historically bad) at that point last year is going to impress voters?

    I can tell you as a former GAC columnist, and being very familiar with the GAC, I wanted to see how SE as a 4-0 team fared against Henderson in week 5. SE then lost to Henderson in a game where the Savage Storm struggled to get rolling and failed to put Henderson away when they had their chances. The following week they needed a late touchdown to seal the win against an SAU team that at that point was talented, but clearly down. Winning against Northwestern Oklahoma isn't going to impress anyone. Then there was the shootout loss in OT with Oklahoma Baptist. Let's be honest, the only reason that SE got a shot at getting it to OT was because of a horrible PI call in the endzone against OKBU. If not for that bad call, the game would have been over. Winning against UAM is the same as winning against NWOSU. The win against Ouachita was impressive, but when Ouachita came storming back from 35-7 it was a bit concerning because frankly SE should have put them away instead of making it feel like if the game had another period Ouachita might have completed the comeback. Then SE lost in the last week to ECU in a game that felt like ECU dominated from start-to-finish and only a late touchdown by SE made the score appear more respectable than it was.

    Now looking at last year's regular season through that prism, does that look like a team that will garner Top 25 votes? I don't think it does, because SE failed to deliver when they needed to, when compared to their peers nationwide.

    Again, it takes time to both earn and lose respect--it's the nature of the beast. What helps teams like SE get in the Top 25 is consistency in winning, not just getting a win here or there against a big team, but also winning the games that on paper they should win.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Armo Wood View Post
      Goodness gracious there's a lot to unpack here. Let's start with the awards and then proceed to the Top 25 poll for D2football.

      As Luke mentioned the GAC weekly award nominations are the SIDs, and the All Conference award nominations are the HCs. So, if a player in on neither, then it is 99.9% of the time on the SIDs and HCs not nominating them. As for the Harlon Hill and its nominations, that is also the SIDs--across the entire D2 football nation. Many SIDs just vote for who they know and whose video game-like numbers they are familiar with. Does it have flaws? You bet, but until the Harlon Hill is reformed, that's the system we're stuck with.

      Now to Top 25 poll. As a current voter in the D2Football poll I can tell you I had SE listed in my Top 25 preseason. In fact, I thought preseason they were likely to win the conference when considering what they had coming back. However, I'm just one voter out of many, and unfortunately respect takes time to earn, and takes time to lose.

      As for the Top 25 poll last year. Yes, SE were 4-0 with the big win against Harding. Let me ask you do you really think wins against ATU, SWOSU, and SNU (teams that have either been down recently or historically bad) at that point last year is going to impress voters?

      I can tell you as a former GAC columnist, and being very familiar with the GAC, I wanted to see how SE as a 4-0 team fared against Henderson in week 5. SE then lost to Henderson in a game where the Savage Storm struggled to get rolling and failed to put Henderson away when they had their chances. The following week they needed a late touchdown to seal the win against an SAU team that at that point was talented, but clearly down. Winning against Northwestern Oklahoma isn't going to impress anyone. Then there was the shootout loss in OT with Oklahoma Baptist. Let's be honest, the only reason that SE got a shot at getting it to OT was because of a horrible PI call in the endzone against OKBU. If not for that bad call, the game would have been over. Winning against UAM is the same as winning against NWOSU. The win against Ouachita was impressive, but when Ouachita came storming back from 35-7 it was a bit concerning because frankly SE should have put them away instead of making it feel like if the game had another period Ouachita might have completed the comeback. Then SE lost in the last week to ECU in a game that felt like ECU dominated from start-to-finish and only a late touchdown by SE made the score appear more respectable than it was.

      Now looking at last year's regular season through that prism, does that look like a team that will garner Top 25 votes? I don't think it does, because SE failed to deliver when they needed to, when compared to their peers nationwide.

      Again, it takes time to both earn and lose respect--it's the nature of the beast. What helps teams like SE get in the Top 25 is consistency in winning, not just getting a win here or there against a big team, but also winning the games that on paper they should win.
      Thank you for the in depth response. Although I do disagree on a few of your arguments I appreaciate the detailed explanation into the thought process of a voter.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Baldsexy View Post
        Thank you for the in depth response. Although I do disagree on a few of your arguments I appreaciate the detailed explanation into the thought process of a voter.
        And it's perfectly fine for anyone to disagree with us, and I do appreciate that you are taking this in the spirit its meant. I'm glad this was helpful to you in understanding how voters can view things. I think a lot of people forget that we are looking nationwide.

        Speaking for myself, I try to watch as much of the GAC as I can each week (the conference has a special place in my heart because I'm a former columnist), but that's not easy to do as I'm also watching key GLVC, RMAC, GMAC, MEC, PSAC, NE-10 games, etc., and having to watch the Live Stats/Box Scores on those conferences that are behind paywalls. Again, looking nationwide it can be difficult. As much as I want to put more GAC teams in, I have to balance it against what I see from other conferences. This is one of those areas where the silo scheduling can hurt during the regular season, because like the RAC for the POs, we don't have any way to compare against other conferences to get as good a picture as possible on which teams are legit and which appear to be legit but are not.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Baldsexy View Post

          I did if you’ll read. But after being 4-0 and beating a ranked Harding they still didn’t crack the top 25 while Harding only dropped a few spots but remained in the top 25. Then after beating a ranked Ouchita at their house they were 8-2 with wins over 2 top 25 teams and still didn’t crack the top 25 while Ouchita remained ranked. I’m talking in season rankings which come out weekly they never made the top 25. Sorry but that’s crap!
          Again, even after beating OBU they had losses to HSU and OKBU - Only one of them were ranked at the time.

          Comment


          • #20
            Yeah I’m not a fan of teams not playing out of conference games. I by no means have any idea how that could be changed. Maybe realignment of some sort where it is more like high school. We played 10 games per season and had. 4 team district. So our first 6 games were against teams from Texas that were really tough. But then we’d come in and dominate our district every year and make the playoffs after playing the tougher Texas teams. Maybe make 6-8 team conferences so the other 3-5 games were out of conference.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Baldsexy View Post
              Marquis Gray is currently #2 in the nation in recieving yards and #! in touchdown receptions with 3 games remaining. If he ends up with say 1,300-1,500 yards and 16-20 touchdowns. Will he be considered the best wr in the nation? Nope. Will he get nominated for the Harlon Hill? Doubtfull. All Ameican? Not likely. Best he can hope for is First Team All GAC. Why? Because he plays for one of those Oklahoma schools in a "crappy" conference that only has 2 good teams! That's the attitude from the people that vote on those things.
              I went back to last years All American WR Statistics - If Gray has those kinds of stats, he should be an All American. HSU had a WR last year who had similar statistics and we was a first team All American.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by NattyStateFan View Post

                I went back to last years All American WR Statistics - If Gray has those kinds of stats, he should be an All American. HSU had a WR last year who had similar statistics and we was a first team All American.
                I sure hope you’re right. But if some wr from a big powerhouse school is even in the ballpark they’ll give it to him. They use the argument “He plays in a real conference against real competition” there is definitely a low opinion of the GAC other than Harding and Ouchita! Not the players fault they have no control over who’s on their schedule.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Gray and Xavier Malone of HSU will both have a chance to be All-Americans at WR this year. Both are on track to have numbers similar to what L’liott Curry did last season for HSU when he was a First Team All-American. The thing Curry had going for him was that he did it in back to back years. He was a monster in 2019 as well and therefore came into the 2021 season on everyone in D2’s radar from the start.

                  That being said, numbers are numbers and as long as your team doesn’t truly stink, there comes a point where they are undeniable whether you have name recognition or not. I’d be willing to bet Gray and Malone both end up being on an All-American team in some form or fashion.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ReddieMade View Post
                    Gray and Xavier Malone of HSU will both have a chance to be All-Americans at WR this year. Both are on track to have numbers similar to what L’liott Curry did last season for HSU when he was a First Team All-American. The thing Curry had going for him was that he did it in back to back years. He was a monster in 2019 as well and therefore came into the 2021 season on everyone in D2’s radar from the start.

                    That being said, numbers are numbers and as long as your team doesn’t truly stink, there comes a point where they are undeniable whether you have name recognition or not. I’d be willing to bet Gray and Malone both end up being on an All-American team in some form or fashion.
                    That would be great!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ReddieMade View Post
                      Gray and Xavier Malone of HSU will both have a chance to be All-Americans at WR this year. Both are on track to have numbers similar to what L’liott Curry did last season for HSU when he was a First Team All-American. The thing Curry had going for him was that he did it in back to back years. He was a monster in 2019 as well and therefore came into the 2021 season on everyone in D2’s radar from the start.

                      That being said, numbers are numbers and as long as your team doesn’t truly stink, there comes a point where they are undeniable whether you have name recognition or not. I’d be willing to bet Gray and Malone both end up being on an All-American team in some form or fashion.
                      I don't know the Malone kids dad but I know Gray's dad would be in hog heaven if that happened. I sure hope he finishes strong and has a chance at it. I can't imagine the kind of pride a father would have if his son was an All American. Man that would be so cool!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Baldsexy View Post

                        I don't know the Malone kids dad but I know Gray's dad would be in hog heaven if that happened. I sure hope he finishes strong and has a chance at it. I can't imagine the kind of pride a father would have if his son was an All American. Man that would be so cool!
                        I would think they’ll both be in the thick of it. Curry last year had 91 receptions, 1297 yards and 16 TDs in 11 games. He finished Top-3 in the country in all three categories.

                        I don’t think either guy will hit that mark for receptions, but both will be close in terms of yards and potentially TDs with three more strong weeks.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ReddieMade View Post

                          I would think they’ll both be in the thick of it. Curry last year had 91 receptions, 1297 yards and 16 TDs in 11 games. He finished Top-3 in the country in all three categories.

                          I don’t think either guy will hit that mark for receptions, but both will be close in terms of yards and potentially TDs with three more strong weeks.
                          I'm guessing Gray will end up somewhere around 75 receptions, 1,250-1,350 yards and 15-16 TDs if he can stay close to his current average.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            GAC has had some good representation in the past on All-American teams. Wouldn’t be shocked to see either one on there. Harris at OKBU might be the best WR in the GAC though, that kid is nuts. QB problems will keep him off the list, think he was All-American on some lists last year.


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                            • #29
                              Man other than a Natty ring, or a Heisman/Harlon Hill an All American would be pretty dang cool.
                              Last edited by Baldsexy; 10-25-2022, 09:49 PM.

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