The Enigma that is Wayne State

[NewEraWarrior]

Wayne State HAS to be the biggest enigma in the GLIAC and might be the biggest in all of D2...The roller coaster of this program is truly puzzling. What makes it even more bizarre is the program has been under the same leadership for nearly two decades.

This is a program that struggled to win more than 1 game in the early years of 2000. Then at the turn of the decade, the program recorded a record amount of wins in 2010 and then reached the highest point of the D2 mountain reaching the 2011 national championship. In the years following 2011 it was a steady decline, bottoming out with a 3 win season in 2013 and then a 2 win season in 2018. THEN in 2019 after starting 0-2, finishes 8-3. Now to follow the momentum of the 2019 finish the program has reverted instantly back to starting 0-4. What in the hell is going on?

[NewEraWarrior]

[WayneStatesman]

Like you I have been miffed by this team over the last 10 years, especially this season and 2018 as well. There is no way the team should be as bad as it is, but it is. The thing that has bugged me for the last decade is that Winters has definitely gone downhill as a head coach since reaching the D2 "pinnacle" if you will in 2011. As I'm sure your'e aware of he's under .500 in the last 10 years and as this season points out there's no sign things are improving.

As for accountability you are correct. Winters has the full backing of the AD no matter what happens. If Wayne goes 0-11 this year it won't matter. Winters will be back next year and can stay as long as he wants to coach. I don't think his job was in real jeopardy despite his lackluster record since 2011 and a dismal 2-9 season in 2018 but the 8-3 season in 2019 bought him at least a few more years.

BTW why has Winters benched Amrhein? He's not a great QB but he is a veteran and as I recall he started all or most of the games in 2019 including all 8 wins.

[mtsax305]

I've been following WSU since 2013 when I was a student; this has got to be one of the most embarrassing losses and is the most embarrassing start to a season I've ever seen. I thought we would have some question marks, but I didn't we'd be this awful 5 weeks in.

Paul is gonna sweet talk about beating Grand Valley (once) and how hard it was with the COVID shutdown (I'd assume most teams had their Spring practice cut short) and Rob's gonna lap it right up. Quite frankly, with the condensing of the GLIAC, I don't think he has the chops to be successful in this new era and I've shown the stats that back it up before. All Rob will say is that we don't know how bad it was before. I don't think the department realizes that most folks coming to Wayne nowadays have higher expectations than there were 20 years ago. If there's gonna be a change, it's gonna have to come from the President. It's clear he supports athletics, but is he willing to offer an ultimatum to his AD or just go above his head to make the change?

Do any Grand Valley folk have any insight/rumors as to what led to Scott Wooster being poached (i.e. Coaching differences, recruiting direction, control over offense, etc.)? Basically was it Paul's fault?

BTW why has Winters benched Amrhein? He's not a great QB but he is a veteran and as I recall he started all or most of the games in 2019 including all 8 wins.

So I thought it was a boneheaded idea going into the Truman game, but I did start to like some of the passing ability of Josh Kulka until he got hurt. At this point, I think it makes sense to start the youth since we clearly aren't good enough to get them in during garbage time. It really sucks for AmRhein who came back as a 6th year. Maybe try starting him for homecoming to try and get a win? I believe he was the starter for the majority of the 2018 season. He started in the 2019 Slippery Rock drubbing, maybe the next game, and then was benched until injury forced him back in to start the Ashland and GVSU games.

[The Warrior]

Hello, I am new here, I have been following the forum for a few years now.

The enigma that is Wayne State.

The facts are in the numbers, in all seasons dating back to Winters first year coaching the program has been average, with a few flash in the pan seasons. As of today, the program is under .500

It starts at the top. The AD does not enforce a culture of winning and it trickles down through the football program. Mediocrity is accepted and that is why the continued result on the field is below average. It is what is accepted by leadership. What you allow is what you will receive. If there is no accountability for the head coach there will be no accountability for assistants and players. We must not overlook the common denominator in this scenario, the AD and Head Coach. At what point do we as a supporting crew say enough is enough and move in a different direction. The program needs nothing more than new fresh energy that is going to instill a culture of WINNING and all that comes with winning.

The reason we see the flash in the pan seasons has less to do with the staff and more to do with there being a special senior class during those seasons. Each of those seasons the seniors were able to come together and rise above the flaws within the program.

I could go on about the many problems that Wayne State Football faces moving forward but until the common denominator changes, we will continue to see the same results.

[SVSUAlum]

I have been saying it for MANY years that we are lucky Winters is at Wayne State because it seems like they could become a giant in DII football with a great coach Location is perfect to pluck all the DII talent from Detroit. If they could keep the talented high school players at home to play college ball and actually coach them up Wayne would be a winner every year. School actually has good talent right now but needs development and leadership. I feel for you Warriors fans as it seems you all deserve better. He has to retire someday.

[WayneStatesman]

I have been saying it for MANY years that we are lucky Winters is at Wayne State because it seems like they could become a giant in DII football with a great coach Location is perfect to pluck all the DII talent from Detroit. If they could keep the talented high school players at home to play college ball and actually coach them up Wayne would be a winner every year.

Winters was THE MAN for his first 7 seasons but after 2011 his job became secure and there was a noticeable drop-off in the quality of the program which has lasted to this day. I agree with you that Wayne State should be a premiere D2 school but as far as football is concerned it will take a different head coach to take the program to a higher level.

[NewEraWarrior]

Well said everyone. I want to see this program flourish because it's been proven it has the potential. I do agree w/ the sentiment that the teams that have made the most impact were driven by player leadership more than anything else. The loss of coach Scott Wooster was a tough one, he was in line to take over for Winters and I don't see that being the case anymore after taking a job at GVSU.

[BeachinLaker]

I've never seen a situation where putting a coach or athlete on too high of a pedestal leads to anything but mediocrity immediately after a big extension.

[MrsThortonMelon]

I've never seen a situation where putting a coach or athlete on too high of a pedestal leads to anything but mediocrity immediately after a big extension.

Seems to have worked out ok for Tom Brady...but not Paul Winters.

[BeachinLaker]

Seems to have worked out ok for Tom Brady...but not Paul Winters.

[Warrior71]

The next head coach will need to understand that Wayne State has a budget of less than 30 In-State scholarships. D2 programs are allotted 36 full (Total cost of out of state tuition) scholarships. That is a huge difference. The president will not raise the budget. The next head coach will also need to understand he will never have an indoor facility (but they did tweet out something about their new elevator they built to the press box!). With the new bball arena being built they are land locked. They have a nice indoor tennis facility though.
They also have no recruiting budget. The assistants are asked to spend out of their own pockets to drive and recruit student athletes. Most places reimburse there assistants for doing this. Athletics and the football program are in a budget crisis.

Wayne State chose to invest a huge amount of money in their head football coach (which he deserved at the time) and really nothing into their football program after the 2011 season. I guess this is what you get.

[NewEraWarrior]

Warrior71 - Although I agree on a various points you make, Wooster is a strong coach who still would've brought in new energy and already would've had the respect of the team if he were named the head man. Yes you are right there are no more Lake Erie or Walsh opponents anymore however even back in 2011-2014 the GLIAC was even stronger than it is now IMO. The GLIAC back then had Indianapolis, Ohio Dominican, Ashland, Findlay, & Hillsdale. All playoff caliber programs. The new program nowadays, Davenport, is not very good. Neither is Northwood or Northern, heck Michigan Tech has regressed some as well. Regardless, I do think now someone new outside the program will come in determined to get the program back. Agree, 0-5 is unacceptable and frankly embarrassing to fans & alumni alike. Also agree the upgrades to the football program has been lackluster since 2011. They've purchased no less than 4 full alternative uniforms for the players to wear and yet haven't improved the actual stadium facilities aside from a video tower and an elevator.

[laker]

[WayneStatesman]

Things have definitely improved over the last 20 years or so for Wayne State football and athletics in general when compared to the dismal state things were in during the '80s and '90s. It will take significant pressure by alumni on the AD and administration to foster any improvement or change particularly in football. IMO there isn't enough alumni involvement or interest in football at Wayne State to make a significant difference but I could be wrong. Time will tell.