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**mtsax305** · 10-11-2021, 09:33 AM

I would be excited for this team if there was a fresh coach in his first year donning the headset. It's just very difficult to look at the post-2011 era of WSU football and realizing that 6-5/7-4 (and finding all sorts of new and exciting ways to get those Ls) is the ceiling. The result is that (probably a bit unfairly) this year's team gets grouped into that snowball of disappointment, though I'm not questioning the players' on-field effort.

And at the end of the day, there aren't nearly enough of us to pressure the higher ups to realize that the past few years have been unacceptable for the most part and to make fundamental changes.

**NewEraWarrior** · 10-11-2021, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Warrior71 View Post

Disheartening effort? They've lost 4 of their 6 games in the last minute/overtime. At this point in 2019 they were 3-3 and had been completely blown out three times. This team competes with a ton of heart. They're young, have a lot of starters in street clothes on the sideline due to injuries, lack discipline, and at this point confidence. They need to find a way to get a win. They certainly don't lack effort. The final results have absolutely been disappointing but I'm excited for the future as I watch this team. You should watch the games before you make comments NewEraWarrior.

Warrior71 - Let me clarify, the player's effort has been there for the most part, the effort I'm referring to is the overall leadership. I stand by the disheartening comment. 0-6 is completely unacceptable. Not sure if you're a newer or older follower of the program but the lack of accountability is staggering. This is a program that has NO EXCUSE being at the bottom of the league. NONE. Don't play the youth card, don't play the injury card, and don't play the poor officiating card. Multiple teams have beaten WSU this year with young players in their lineups, all teams deal with injuries, and maybe the penalties are due to poor discipline which IS indicative of a lack of leadership. As a alumni that has witnessed first hand what the potential of the program is, you are delusional if you think because we have young players with potential that the future is bright. It takes much more than talent to have a winning program.

**GV Retired Bum** · 10-11-2021, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by NewEraWarrior View Post

Warrior71 - Let me clarify, the player's effort has been there for the most part but have you not been paying attention to the overall leadership? I stand by the disheartening comment. 0-6 is completely unacceptable. Not sure if you're a newer or older follower of the program but the lack of accountability is staggering. This is a program that has NO EXCUSE being at the bottom of the league. NONE. Don't play the youth card, don't play the injury card, and don't play the poor officiating card. Multiple teams have beaten WSU this year with young players in their lineups, all teams deal with injuries, and maybe the penalties are due to poor discipline which IS indicative of a lack of leadership. As a alumni that has witnessed first hand what the potential of the program is, you are delusional if you think because we have young players with potential that the future is bright. It takes much more than talent to have a winning program.

Completely agree. Ive played against all the teams in this league. Wayne is BY FAR more talented than everyone except GV, Ferris, and SVSU (They are more talented just not as big as the rest). 0-6 shows the lack of leadership and culture to beat down on teams they should. I know alot of you guys have been saying Wooster wouldnt have fixed this because he was already on the staff before, let me tell you they would not be 0-6 right now with him. The guy brings every ounce of energy to anywhere he goes and would have these guys playing alot better. Glad GV has him ;)

**Warrior71** · 10-11-2021, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by NewEraWarrior View Post

Warrior71 - Let me clarify, the player's effort has been there for the most part, the effort I'm referring to is the overall leadership. I stand by the disheartening comment. 0-6 is completely unacceptable. Not sure if you're a newer or older follower of the program but the lack of accountability is staggering. This is a program that has NO EXCUSE being at the bottom of the league. NONE. Don't play the youth card, don't play the injury card, and don't play the poor officiating card. Multiple teams have beaten WSU this year with young players in their lineups, all teams deal with injuries, and maybe the penalties are due to poor discipline which IS indicative of a lack of leadership. As a alumni that has witnessed first hand what the potential of the program is, you are delusional if you think because we have young players with potential that the future is bright. It takes much more than talent to have a winning program.

I agree. They are undisciplined. That is a reflection of coaching. As I stated before I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether or not Winters should go. He was the GLIAC coach of the year last season but obviously has struggled to find wins this year. You clearly have a strong disgust for Paul Winters and want him fired. You should donate a bunch of money to the athletic department so you can have some input on that matter. Otherwise nobody really cares about your opinion or mine for that matter. I was just commenting on the effort and young talent I see. That is also a reflection of coaching. This team will be strong in the future no matter who is coaching them. Go Warriors!

**NewEraWarrior** · 10-11-2021, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Warrior71 View Post

I agree. They are undisciplined. That is a reflection of coaching. As I stated before I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether or not Winters should go. He was the GLIAC coach of the year last season but obviously has struggled to find wins this year. You clearly have a strong disgust for Paul Winters and want him fired. You should donate a bunch of money to the athletic department so you can have some input on that matter. Otherwise nobody really cares about your opinion or mine for that matter. I was just commenting on the effort and young talent I see. That is also a reflection of coaching. This team will be strong in the future no matter who is coaching them. Go Warriors!

That's fair. The crazy thing is I don't have a strong distain for coach Winters, I am just frustrated with the overall progress I've witnessed. I'm not calling for Winters to be fired however I am calling for a change in how things are handled. I watch and listen to interviews and I am baffled at how it appears majority of folks currently in the program don't just come out and say "we need to do better". There always seems to be some excuse. THAT is what needs to change.

**Warrior71** · 10-11-2021, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by GV Retired Bum View Post

Completely agree. Ive played against all the teams in this league. Wayne is BY FAR more talented than everyone except GV, Ferris, and SVSU (They are more talented just not as big as the rest). 0-6 shows the lack of leadership and culture to beat down on teams they should. I know alot of you guys have been saying Wooster wouldnt have fixed this because he was already on the staff before, let me tell you they would not be 0-6 right now with him. The guy brings every ounce of energy to anywhere he goes and would have these guys playing alot better. Glad GV has him ;)

They have solid young skill players on offense at WR and RB and are good up front defensively when they are healthy. They have no returning players in the secondary from 2019 that I have seen the past few games. They are putting up better offensive numbers than the 2019 team but the turnovers are crushing them as well as special teams mistakes. Defensively they play well for three quarters and then have let downs in the fourth quarter. I don't see a lack of energy or effort on either side of the ball. Wooster seemed to be a solid offensive line coach. They had good years running the ball and not so good years running the ball. I believe he was very well respected by the players on the team. You said they're "not as big as Ferris, GV, and SV." Wouldn't that be a reflection on his recruiting? I also think if you're going to split from Winters you need to go outside the program and find someone new and fresh. I'm sure there would be a lot of strong candidates.

**Warrior71** · 10-11-2021, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by NewEraWarrior View Post

That's fair. The crazy thing is I don't have a strong distain for coach Winters, I am just frustrated with the overall progress I've witnessed. I'm not calling for Winters to be fired however I am calling for a change in how things are handled. I watch and listen to interviews and I am baffled at how it appears majority of folks currently in the program don't just come out and say "we need to do better". There always seems to be some excuse. THAT is what needs to change.

That's also fair

**GV Retired Bum** · 10-11-2021, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Warrior71 View Post

They have solid young skill players on offense at WR and RB and are good up front defensively when they are healthy. They have no returning players in the secondary from 2019 that I have seen the past few games. They are putting up better offensive numbers than the 2019 team but the turnovers are crushing them as well as special teams mistakes. Defensively they play well for three quarters and then have let downs in the fourth quarter. I don't see a lack of energy or effort on either side of the ball. Wooster seemed to be a solid offensive line coach. They had good years running the ball and not so good years running the ball. I believe he was very well respected by the players on the team. You said they're "not as big as Ferris, GV, and SV." Wouldn't that be a reflection on his recruiting? I also think if you're going to split from Winters you need to go outside the program and find someone new and fresh. I'm sure there would be a lot of strong candidates.

Sorry, I meant there is a smaller gap of talent between SVSU and WSU compared to WSU and the rest of the gliac. Recruiting is the biggest factor people leave out when talking college football and I think the staff at WSU dos a good job. They do the 3rd best in the gliac when it comes to that aspect of coaching. Its the preparation for games that seems to be missing for this team. Who knows, maybe they rattle off some wins like '19. I just dont see how there can be any excuse to losing to a team like Tech. good program but the talent difference is just insane.

**mtsax305** · 10-14-2021, 09:52 AM

Listening to pressers from Coach, he keeps dragging out how young the team is and how they didn't get all the offseason conditioning because of campus being shut down. I'm not sure how much stock I buy in that. How many other GLIAC teams had conditioning and spring camps cut short? How many others lost upperclassmen to graduation and the like in 2020?

And at the end of the day, pending D-Port, Saginaw, or Northwood (or miracles against GV or Ferris), where else does a highly tenured coach go anywhere from 0-11 to 3-8 and survive (without stellar seasons that balance it out)? This is the 5th .500 and below season in the past 9. 1 playoff appearance resulting in a runner-up. 0 conference championships. 18 seasons.

**UMary1** · 10-14-2021, 10:25 AM

The talent in and around Metro Detroit can make this program a National Power. New Era Warrior is right, there needs to be a culture change. If I am Winters I approach some young up and coming coaches from Cass Tech, Belleville and see if they want to start something special. A few key pieces on a staff can make all the difference, so far so good for Harbaugh. ie. Bellamy and Hart

**GV Retired Bum** · 10-14-2021, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by mtsax305 View Post

Listening to pressers from Coach, he keeps dragging out how young the team is and how they didn't get all the offseason conditioning because of campus being shut down. I'm not sure how much stock I buy in that. How many other GLIAC teams had conditioning and spring camps cut short? How many others lost upperclassmen to graduation and the like in 2020?

And at the end of the day, pending D-Port, Saginaw, or Northwood (or miracles against GV or Ferris), where else does a highly tenured coach go anywhere from 0-11 to 3-8 and survive (without stellar seasons that balance it out)? This is the 5th .500 and below season in the past 9. 1 playoff appearance resulting in a runner-up. 0 conference championships. 18 seasons.

It seems that one good season has allowed him to stay on as the head coach. It all comes down to if the president and AD dont care what the record is then he will never lose his job. Some schools just want a clean program. Winters has done a good job with that, the only issue is they have the power to win some games. Especially where they are located.

**UMary1** · 10-14-2021, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by GV Retired Bum View Post

It seems that one good season has allowed him to stay on as the head coach. It all comes down to if the president and AD dont care what the record is then he will never lose his job. Some schools just want a clean program. Winters has done a good job with that, the only issue is they have the power to win some games. Especially where they are located.

Nail, head!

**crixus** · 10-14-2021, 11:44 AM

Here's some good news for Wayne State athletics. Congratulations on your #1 ranking.

??????

**Irishlaker** · 10-15-2021, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by crixus View Post

Here's some good news for Wayne State athletics. Congratulations on your #1 ranking.

Uhh, pretty sure that's the other Wayne State.

Salt enters open wound...

**mtsax305** · 10-15-2021, 12:57 PM

It really doesn't help that Wayne State College is ranked in football right now either. #pain

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