T-Town Turn-Around

[Brandon]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Brandon, So I agree but also don't agree. I think you should want to top a program when they are at their most powerful. But I dont think this means "beat a team when they are weak." I think it just means when they've come back down to earth.

When Pitt was at their best, nobody was beating them. Same as when NW was at their best, nobody was beating them. I mean in that span NW was only rushing 4 and getting pressure everytime, and moving the LOS back. If the front four dominates the front five/six every week. Its hard to compete

I understand that. I just want Team A to pass Team B by raising the level. I agree a lot about what you said.

Before the season started I was talking to a friend from Central who was lamenting the Northwest loss from last season and some of their other losses. He said something to the effect of them "being as good as anyone" so it was disappointing. I told him that's exactly the problem. I had a buddy from Northwest say the same thing about the Bearcats in the 2012 playoffs. He said, "I thought we had as good a chance as anyone." They are both right. Central could have easily beaten Northwest last year and Northwest was probably as good as anyone in 2012. But when you're "as good as" a team, your chances are 50/50. When you're "as good as anyone" in the playoffs, your chances are 1/24.

To make sure you come out on top, you just have to be plain better than everyone else. Does the best team always win? No. But it wins at a greater clip than 50/50 or 1/24, if you will.

I agree with you. No one (locally) was going to beat Pitt in the early 1990's. No one was going to beat NDSU on their runs. No one was going to beat GV in 2002. No one was going to beat Northwest in 2013, 2015, or 2016. I just want someone to raise and surpass that level.

Maybe it's a fantasy that's not realistic.

[HookemHerd]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

I understand that. I just want Team A to pass Team B by raising the level. I agree a lot about what you said.

Before the season started I was talking to a friend from Central who was lamenting the Northwest loss from last season and some of their other losses. He said something to the effect of them "being as good as anyone" so it was disappointing. I told him that's exactly the problem. I had a buddy from Northwest say the same thing about the Bearcats in the 2012 playoffs. He said, "I thought we had as good a chance as anyone." They are both right. Central could have easily beaten Northwest last year and Northwest was probably as good as anyone in 2012. But when you're "as good as" a team, your chances are 50/50. When you're "as good as anyone" in the playoffs, your chances are 1/24.

To make sure you come out on top, you just have to be plain better than everyone else. Does the best team always win? No. But it wins at a greater clip than 50/50 or 1/24, if you will.

I agree with you. No one (locally) was going to beat Pitt in the early 1990's. No one was going to beat NDSU on their runs. No one was going to beat GV in 2002. No one was going to beat Northwest in 2013, 2015, or 2016. I just want someone to raise and surpass that level.

Maybe it's a fantasy that's not realistic.

We are talking rare years where teams are head and shoulders above competition. Not in every aspect, but at the line of scrimmage for sure
You can't scheme when at least two d lineman are in the backfield every play.

[Brandon]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

We are talking rare years where teams are head and shoulders above competition. Not in every aspect, but at the line of scrimmage for sure
You can't scheme when at least two d lineman are in the backfield every play.

If you're going to be really special, the defensive line and quarterback and two places to do it. Some of those Northwest defensive lines would move the LOS back two yards on the snap of the ball. They were special.

I think I'll look at the champions and see which years I think the champion was much better than the rest....

[HookemHerd]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

If you're going to be really special, the defensive line and quarterback and two places to do it. Some of those Northwest defensive lines would move the LOS back two yards on the snap of the ball. They were special.

I think I'll look at the champions and see which years I think the champion was heads and shoulders above the rest......

Of the 15 years ive followed the MIAA, you win with an above avg qb paired with a disruptive dline.

If you look, the MIAA champs wont always have a harlon hill qb, but they will have riot makers on the DL

[Brandon]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Of the 15 years ive followed the MIAA, you win with an above avg qb paired with a disruptive dline.

If you look, the MIAA champs wont always have a harlon hill qb, but they will have riot makers on the DL

That's exactly the formula I told a friend I believe in. Best DL. QB good enough to be considered for AA. I think I'd actually go with two dominant corners after that.

[HookemHerd]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

That's exactly the formula I told a friend I believe in. Best DL. QB good enough to be considered for AA. I think I'd actually go with two dominant corners after that.

In a dream scenario I think corners would be the next most important. From what I have seen the next most important is a sideline to sideline tackle machine LB.

Although maybe I am contradicting myself with that statement. Names that came to mind were obviously Harris, Dreiling, Kozeal, Watkins. And two of the 4 didn't result in winning programs.

[Brandon]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

In a dream scenario I think corners would be the next most important. From what I have seen the next most important is a sideline to sideline tackle machine LB.

Although maybe I am contradicting myself with that statement. Names that came to mind were obviously Harris, Dreiling, Kozeal, Watkins. And two of the 4 didn't result in winning programs.

Because tackles are a bull**** stat. The job of the defense is to get off the field. Tackles for loss and turnovers are the best defensive stats. But if a team goes five a pop running the ball down the field it's possible for one player to rack up 10 tackles or more on a single drive and the defense didn't stop anyone. I thought Vollstedt was the best I saw at scraping and closing but those backers you mentioned never had a d-line in front of them like Vollstedt did. Of all the backers you mentioned I thought Watkins was the best.

[Predatory Primates]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Ronald McKinnon

[GorillaBred]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

I know there are a lot of jokes in this thread so this post has nothing to do with anything anyone said, but I have always agreed with that sentiment. In the early 90's, people were praying for Broyles to retire at Pitt. In the late 1990's to 2010, people were praying for Tjeerdsma to leave. It's a defeatist attitude and typically when it happens you weren't good enough to do what they had done anyway.

Broyles got the HC job in 1990 at age 43 and people were already praying for him to retire by the early 90s? I think hoping he'd move up to DI-AA was more the case--the same way that the great NDSU FB coaches of the 1980s moved up.

On the subject of good vs bad defensive stats, I 100% agree that tackles are dumb. Stats that I know certain programs keep that are much better are 3rd down PBUs and 3rd down tackles short of the sticks.

[Brandon]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Broyles got the HC job in 1990 at age 43 and people were already praying for him to retire by the early 90s? I think hoping he'd move up to DI-AA was more the case--the same way that the great NDSU FB coaches of the 1980s moved up.

On the subject of good vs bad defensive stats, I 100% agree that tackles are dumb. Stats that I know certain programs keep that are much better are 3rd down PBUs and 3rd down tackles short of the sticks.

Your first sentence is exactly the scenario I was thinking about....praying SMSU would hire him.

[JurisBearcat]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Ten years from now the MIAA will look back on next Thursday night in Topeka as the game that finally placed Washburn in a position to rule conference football. Much like Mel's second season in M-Ville, next Thursday's victory will be a Big Bad Bod coming-out party. Finally, Washburn gets Northwest in its cross hairs when the Cats are most human and when they are their most vulnerable in years. We will not allow this opportunity to slip by. This win will open up the remaining 2018 schedule for the Bods and will make a run not only doable, but probable--Pitt, UCM, WKU....all are winnables after next Thursday night in Moore Bowl. This meeting between the Blue and the Green is not only the biggest and most important game in Washburn football history, but it will ultimately prove the most historic game in over a hundred years of Ichabod football. A Decade of Dominance begins Thursday night in which Washburn unseats Northwest as Master of MIAA football.

But how are the Ichadogs this year? Still tasty I hope.

[GorillaBred]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

Your first sentence is exactly the scenario I was thinking about....praying SMSU would hire him.

When SMSU hired Del Miller in 1995, he was clearly the better hire on paper. He'd just been the AHC/OC at K-State as they'd really gone over the edge and secured the greatest turnaround in the history of college football. In hindsight, Broyles may have been a better hire for them. Although, a lot of Broyles's success at Pitt State was based upon his deep roots at the college and in the area, combined with the fact that back then Pitt State was running the program with a professionalism that was rare in D2 at the time and is commonplace in D2 today. Not sure how that would've translated had he gone to SMSU. Also, I don't think Broyles was actually a candidate at SMSU that year, but it's an interesting hypo nonetheless.

[HookemHerd]

Re: T-Town Turn-Around

This was the game last year where we discovered NW had become a soft offense