2020 schedule and super duper early predictions

[GrifFan]

I guess? Seems like everything Wilson did was needed pre-covid. Some schools may need to declare financial exigency due to COVID but Western was in that position pre-covid.

Yes, the process started before the pandemic. Other schools having financial troubles did not start the process before the pandemic. Not sure how to make it more clear than that. Many (not all, not most, but many) schools were in pretty bad shape before covid, should have been taking steps, and didn't. At least four small colleges have closed since March.

[NWHoops]

Yes, the process started before the pandemic. Other schools having financial troubles did not start the process before the pandemic. Not sure how to make it more clear than that. Many (not all, not most, but many) schools were in pretty bad shape before covid, should have been taking steps, and didn't. At least four small colleges have closed since March.

I agree it's pretty clear and nothing you have shared has changed the information I knew beforehand. That is why I honestly asked.

It takes a lot of spin to turn declaring financial exigency as a positive. Schools do it and recover but they also do it and never recover. It is a last resort that puts it out there for all to see that the school is in trouble. While higher ed is in a precarious position and some schools (or many as you said) are having financial troubles, that doesn't mean they are all comparable and may have no need to declare financial exigency because they having taken steps over the last decade to manage it. To say declaring financial exigency puts Western ahead of other schools is like if everyone was driving as fast as they could to a cliff and spinning it as a positive that you're driving the fastest car and will be the first one to go off the cliff.

[FlyinLion]

I agree it's pretty clear and nothing you have shared has changed the information I knew beforehand. That is why I honestly asked.

It takes a lot of spin to turn declaring financial exigency as a positive. Schools do it and recover but they also do it and never recover. It is a last resort that puts it out there for all to see that the school is in trouble. While higher ed is in a precarious position and some schools (or many as you said) are having financial troubles, that doesn't mean they are all comparable and may have no need to declare financial exigency because they having taken steps over the last decade to manage it. To say declaring financial exigency puts Western ahead of other schools is like if everyone was driving as fast as they could to a cliff and spinning it as a positive that you're driving the fastest car and will be the first one to go off the cliff.

Your analogy needs some work. Western was headed the fastest towards the cliff but pulled the emergency brake by declaring financial exigency. In the analogy after Western hits the brakes, a 100 year earthquake (covid) caused the 300 feet of the cliff to fall in and now the all cars are much closer to the edge and slamming on the brakes too. Did Western hitting the brakes earlier cause some other schools to pass it? Just catch up to Western but now they're going faster? At the least Western having slammed on the brakes and slowed it down to allow it to adapt to the changing circumstances better, and I'd argue easier than those that hadn't braked yet who have now caught up to it.

No guarantee any of it will be enough as maybe Western was too close the cliff already, but you need to complete the analogy rather than just confirm your prior conclusion.

[GorillaBred]

Your analogy needs some work. Western was headed the fastest towards the cliff but pulled the emergency brake by declaring financial exigency. In the analogy after Western hits the brakes, a 100 year earthquake (covid) caused the 300 feet of the cliff to fall in and now the all cars are much closer to the edge and slamming on the brakes too. Did Western hitting the brakes earlier cause some other schools to pass it? Just catch up to Western but now they're going faster? At the least Western having slammed on the brakes and slowed it down to allow it to adapt to the changing circumstances better, and I'd argue easier than those that hadn't braked yet who have now caught up to it.

No guarantee any of it will be enough as maybe Western was too close the cliff already, but you need to complete the analogy rather than just confirm your prior conclusion.

I'll try to save both of you some time and point out that you have different answers to these questions and therein lies your disagreement. FL thinks the answers to these questions are yes. NWH thinks that the answers are no.

To stretch this tenuous analogy even further, NWH thinks that the MW car is closer to the cliff than the others school cars and is still moving at the same speed, but all the other schools can still slam their brakes on and MW has no more stopping mechanisms to use.

Unless one of you are looking at detailed financials of all of the institutions, it's pretty near impossible to say which of you is correct.

[Wallst]

My team by team predictions for Fall 2020

Covid wins.

I'll give someone the field if they wish.

[NWHoops]

I'll try to save both of you some time and point out that you have different answers to these questions and therein lies your disagreement. FL thinks the answers to these questions are yes. NWH thinks that the answers are no.

To stretch this tenuous analogy even further, NWH thinks that the MW car is closer to the cliff than the others school cars and is still moving at the same speed, but all the other schools can still slam their brakes on and MW has no more stopping mechanisms to use.

Unless one of you are looking at detailed financials of all of the institutions, it's pretty near impossible to say which of you is correct.

I agree on the aspect of looking at the detailed financials of all institutions. I just find it hard to believe that MANY institutions (a few or some I would think is more reasonable) are in the same financial situation as Western found themselves.

Western was in really bad shape pre-COVID, all of higher ed was in a tough situation pre-COVID. Western's financial exigency is working to get them to a level playing field with other institutions that were in a tough situation and have been managing their declining budgets. Declaring financial exigency does not put Western in better shape than other schools just because COVID exists. The impact COVID has on schools could be game changing. If schools have to declare financial exigency due to COVID then I think most people would understand the circumstances. Western declared because of a decade or more of financial mismanagement that COVID did not impact until the last minute.

Another analogy- If everyone keeps getting a pay cut but they also cut their expenses and budget within their means and I keep spending without worrying about a budget and then declare bankruptcy and sell off my house, car. etc. does that put me in a better position than everyone else?

My ultimate point is that declaring financial exigency is always bad so trying to say it puts Western in a better position than most schools is looking through some really tinted glasses. When NW did reduction in force and cut programs, it hurt their reputation with high schools and high school students for a couple years. I imagine this will have a similar impact on Western on a larger scale.

[Predatory Primates]

Griffan's point is that he likes MW. NWH's point is that he doesn't like MW. The rest is just filler.

[northwest missouri state]

i u/s gf's initial post to be positive so to speak as far as mw's moves pre covid compared to other schools in mw's financial position pre covid not compared to all schools in general.

it wasn't spelled out that tediously but that's the way it read to me.

[NWHoops]

Griffan's point is that he likes MW. NWH's point is that he doesn't like MW. The rest is just filler.

My points would be the same regardless of the school. Has nothing to do with it being Western or any other school. One area this did affect Western is they were set to receive a significant bailout from the state (similar to what happened at Southern a few years ago). Then COVID happened. If there is no COVID and they receive the bailout then maybe the decisions the administration had to make look a lot different.

[GrifFan]

I agree it's pretty clear and nothing you have shared has changed the information I knew beforehand. That is why I honestly asked.

It takes a lot of spin to turn declaring financial exigency as a positive. Schools do it and recover but they also do it and never recover. It is a last resort that puts it out there for all to see that the school is in trouble. While higher ed is in a precarious position and some schools (or many as you said) are having financial troubles, that doesn't mean they are all comparable and may have no need to declare financial exigency because they having taken steps over the last decade to manage it. To say declaring financial exigency puts Western ahead of other schools is like if everyone was driving as fast as they could to a cliff and spinning it as a positive that you're driving the fastest car and will be the first one to go off the cliff.

We have a pretty fundamental disagreement. Financial exigency is a step to preserve the institution, not to drive it off the cliff.

[GrifFan]

My points would be the same regardless of the school. Has nothing to do with it being Western or any other school. One area this did affect Western is they were set to receive a significant bailout from the state (similar to what happened at Southern a few years ago). Then COVID happened. If there is no COVID and they receive the bailout then maybe the decisions the administration had to make look a lot different.

The extra appropriation Missouri Western was set to receive was not a "bailout." It was an appropriation for a new initiative, the Center for Service.

[NWHoops]

We have a pretty fundamental disagreement. Financial exigency is a step to preserve the institution, not to drive it off the cliff.

- Financial exigency is a grave threat to the survival of any university.

- Financial exigency means an imminent financial crisis which threatens the viability of the institution as a whole or the viability of one of its colleges or schools.



Hence, getting so close to the cliff that it needs declared and then saying it puts you ahead of other institutions when they may be nowhere near that cliff makes no sense to me. To each their own...

[GrifFan]

- Financial exigency is a grave threat to the survival of any university.

- Financial exigency means an imminent financial crisis which threatens the viability of the institution as a whole or the viability of one of its colleges or schools.



Hence, getting so close to the cliff that it needs declared and then saying it puts you ahead of other institutions when they may be nowhere near that cliff makes no sense to me. To each their own...