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  • The First of Many?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...npl?li=BBnb7Kz

    Florida Tech drops football program.

  • #2
    Actually the third of many. Urbana and another football playing college have already announced they will be closing their doors next year due to Covid19

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh it is getting REALLY BAD!! So many students requesting room and board refunds are costing universities tens of millions already. Scores of universities are cutting funding across many departments. Some are cutting many sports, while others are going to either going to completely close or merge.

      The "University Bubble" was already going to pop because demographics show there will be much fewer high school students graduating over the next 10 years....hence a major decline in enrollment across the board. And this was BEFORE COVID-19. Now, many students are going to take a 1 year hiatus or look at trade training instead.

      As far as DII athletics, more than 30% of public universities and nearly 30% of privates were already running operating deficits. The NCAA said Division II basketball will receive 4.37% of actual revenues, currently projected to be $13.9 million for the division, which is a $30 million decrease from last year. YIKES!

      On top of all this, you not only have to worry about the universities surviving, but you have to worry about the college towns surviving as well.

      Well, the smoke being blown by AD's, university pres, etc...is clearing away pretty rapidly and folks are seeing what is really happening. If I were employed by a university, I would be looking at other options now.

      SAD!

      Comment


      • #4
        https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...G3j?li=BBnb7Kz

        Cal State schools will not reopen for the fall semester, leaving Cal State-San Diego, San Jose and Fresno (all of the Mountain West Conference) without football this coming year.

        Comment


        • #5
          Pops where are you getting the one year hiatus info? I keep seeing you post that but my son just graduated from a 6a high school and almost every kid we know is headed somewhere just like every other year?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LionFan View Post
            Pops where are you getting the one year hiatus info? I keep seeing you post that but my son just graduated from a 6a high school and almost every kid we know is headed somewhere just like every other year?
            I thnk some of it depends on if kids are on scholarship or not. One friend of mine her son was going to a junior college but not on scholarship and they no longer had the funds to send him due to being out of work with the COVID 19 stuff. Another friend of mine son had a partial tennis scholarship to St. Edwards here in Austin but they eliminated tennis and he hasnt been able to find another school to offer the same scholarship. Its definitely a different world now in a lot of ways.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GoBuffsGo View Post
              https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...npl?li=BBnb7Kz

              Florida Tech drops football program.
              As an alum of the school I hate to see it go, but it was a very young program (started in 2012 or 2013), with some success (2 playoff appearances).

              Comment


              • #8
                We (faulty and staff) at ASU are making plans to return to on campus for the Fall, but it will be a very different environment. We are scrambling to figure out how to bring about 6,500 kids on to campus from all over the state, country, and world. This is into an area (San Angelo) that so far has been relatively COVID-19 free. The logistics of this are enormous (classroom adjustments to social distancing, labs in the STEM and healthcare classes, feeding in cafeterias, preventing congregation of "invincible" 18 to 22 year olds, all of this coupled with older, at-risk faculty and staff, etc.) and all of this without adequate testing to see where we are and who has what. What do you do when you get positive tests, how can you screen 500 student coming into a building for a 10:00 AM class while controlling entry points?

                Just social distancing of classrooms means that instantly classrooms that once held 40 students will be down to 20 or less; requiring a different instruction model, or doubling of cases offered; all with the same finite number of classroom and faculty.

                It is mind boggling to think about even a small piece of this, much less the entire operation of the university, not to mention the liability issues involved, both morally and legally. I can understand the thought process of the Cal State System and why they made the decision to stay online for Fall.

                While we are making these plans, all of us are fully cognizant of the fact that these plans could be all for nothing and we may be online as well in Fall. As I have read in many places, we are not really making the decision, the virus is making them for us and we are just reacting. But, we would be negligent to not be doing this planning ahead of time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by texcap View Post
                  We (faulty and staff) at ASU are making plans to return to on campus for the Fall, but it will be a very different environment. We are scrambling to figure out how to bring about 6,500 kids on to campus from all over the state, country, and world. This is into an area (San Angelo) that so far has been relatively COVID-19 free. The logistics of this are enormous (classroom adjustments to social distancing, labs in the STEM and healthcare classes, feeding in cafeterias, preventing congregation of "invincible" 18 to 22 year olds, all of this coupled with older, at-risk faculty and staff, etc.) and all of this without adequate testing to see where we are and who has what. What do you do when you get positive tests, how can you screen 500 student coming into a building for a 10:00 AM class while controlling entry points?

                  Just social distancing of classrooms means that instantly classrooms that once held 40 students will be down to 20 or less; requiring a different instruction model, or doubling of cases offered; all with the same finite number of classroom and faculty.

                  It is mind boggling to think about even a small piece of this, much less the entire operation of the university, not to mention the liability issues involved, both morally and legally. I can understand the thought process of the Cal State System and why they made the decision to stay online for Fall.

                  While we are making these plans, all of us are fully cognizant of the fact that these plans could be all for nothing and we may be online as well in Fall. As I have read in many places, we are not really making the decision, the virus is making them for us and we are just reacting. But, we would be negligent to not be doing this planning ahead of time.
                  The second schools announce an online semester, they'll lose students immediately - and in many cases permanently. If I were a trad student, I'd never pay full price for a semester of Zoom courses. They're just not the same. Especially if I had to take a bunch of "hands-on" courses, science courses with labs and the like. Add in the fee schedule that students are responsible for but can't render services on - and I'd leave school on the spot.

                  If I were in that situation - I'd consider one of a few options. I'd look to JUCOs for courses, I'd work part-time and study for CLEP tests, or I'd just take an entire gap semester and work full-time to pay down the student loans. If I were a freshman, I would just commit to a full gap year and work or something. No point wasting a year of the experience to sit in my bedroom staring at a computer screen.



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=SW_Mustang;n507254]

                    The second schools announce an online semester, they'll lose students immediately - and in many cases permanently. If I were a trad student, I'd never pay full price for a semester of Zoom courses. They're just not the same. Especially if I had to take a bunch of "hands-on" courses, science courses with labs and the like. Add in the fee schedule that students are responsible for but can't render services on - and I'd leave school on the spot.

                    If I were in that situation - I'd consider one of a few options. I'd look to JUCOs for courses, I'd work part-time and study for CLEP tests, or I'd just take an entire gap semester and work full-time to pay down the student loans. If I were a freshman, I would just commit to a full gap year and work or something. No point wasting a year of the experience to sit in my bedroom staring at a computer screen.

                    LMAO!!! I can see some kid holed up in his/her bedroom putting on 20+ pounds with half empty soda cans, pizza boxes, Chinese take out, potato chip bags scattered all over their bedroom.


                    I’ve asked this question before about an online college degree on this site. The best answer was it depends on how well the kid has discipline was the best take I got from the discussion.

                    I agree with you, most will not stay with the University. Internet offers too many options.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Techster88;n507353]
                      Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                      The second schools announce an online semester, they'll lose students immediately - and in many cases permanently. If I were a trad student, I'd never pay full price for a semester of Zoom courses. They're just not the same. Especially if I had to take a bunch of "hands-on" courses, science courses with labs and the like. Add in the fee schedule that students are responsible for but can't render services on - and I'd leave school on the spot.

                      If I were in that situation - I'd consider one of a few options. I'd look to JUCOs for courses, I'd work part-time and study for CLEP tests, or I'd just take an entire gap semester and work full-time to pay down the student loans. If I were a freshman, I would just commit to a full gap year and work or something. No point wasting a year of the experience to sit in my bedroom staring at a computer screen.

                      LMAO!!! I can see some kid holed up in his/her bedroom putting on 20+ pounds with half empty soda (and Beer) cans, pizza boxes, Chinese take out, potato chip bags scattered all over their bedroom.


                      I’ve asked this question before about an online college degree on this site. The best answer was it depends on how well the kid has discipline was the best take I got from the discussion.

                      I agree with you, most will not stay with the University. Internet offers too many options.

                      In other words, they are going to see how some of us "old" goats spent our college days.

                      But on subject I hope serious debate continues on all the money spent on infrastructure, administration, and program costs at universities large and small as well as private and public. If one positive comes from this Covid mess, it proves colleges do not need all the money they've accumulated (extorted) from taxpayers,college students and their parents because we can see at least in today's world a simple computer connection is needed to "learn" and complete assignments, and take exams. Let's start the debate with suggesting at least basic courses can all be moved to an online world and I'd include even some intro courses directly tied to a Major. And then reserve the campus for upper level courses where you get into the weeds of your degree program. Yes, exceptions would have to be made for disciplines and courses where hands on is required such as some of the science and medical fields. But again, most degree Majors in those fields won't get into the thick of that stuff until their third or forth years.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Techster88 View Post

                        LMAO!!! I can see some kid holed up in his/her bedroom putting on 20+ pounds with half empty soda cans, pizza boxes, Chinese take out, potato chip bags scattered all over their bedroom.


                        I’ve asked this question before about an online college degree on this site. The best answer was it depends on how well the kid has discipline was the best take I got from the discussion.

                        I agree with you, most will not stay with the University. Internet offers too many options.

                        After I posted that I realized that's the M/O for a lot of college students already, before the pandemic - haha.

                        This is going to sound like I'm insulting a bunch of people and I don't mean for it to be, but I've read a lot about online education on this board. My interpretation is the vast majority of the board are older guys who don't understand it and are trying to make sense of it. I've tried to put out there how it works, but I'm not sure if it's getting through to anyone. But I'll put it here too -

                        Online education programs are intended for working adults who can't physically be on campus. They will still take the 18-22 crowd, because money, but very few 18 y/o's actually do online programs. Just like in the 1980's, kids want to party, socialize, all that fun stuff. These programs are crafted for internet delivery. They range in quality based on the subject, instructor, and yes - student discipline.

                        At SMSU, traditional college students typically take online courses for one of three reasons:
                        1) Scheduling conflict
                        2) Summer courses
                        3) The course is only offered online (these are very rare)

                        What happened as a response to the pandemic is a lot of professors with no online instruction experience were forced to move courses not optimized for online delivery into an online setting with only 2-3 weeks to prepare - so the quality bottomed out in many cases from what I've seen. Students don't want to pay full-tuition for these courses since they aren't getting the full instruction.

                        The question I've tried to answer many, many times on this board:

                        What will happen when online classes replace in-person classes completely?

                        -That's not going to happen - ever. Not even hypothetically does that make the slightest bit of sense. Let's get that idea out of our heads.

                        I just finished my B.S. last May, and even as a non-traditional student I strived to be on campus as much as possible - so much so that when I had to take an online section for a course, I got permission to show up for the in-person lectures. Like I said - 18 y/o's want to party, socialize, and interact. They don't want to sit in their bedrooms staring at a computer screen, in the vast majority of cases. There will always be exceptions, but folks in the 1980's isolated themselves too.

                        Hopefully that clears it up for you as to what's going on - I'm always happy to answer any questions as a Millennial, recent college grad.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=LSC Fan;n507419]
                          Originally posted by Techster88 View Post

                          In other words, they are going to see how some of us "old" goats spent our college days..
                          People in the 1980's sat in their rooms and stared at computer screens for 12 hours a day? That explains... a lot, actually.


                          (I get what you mean, I'm just joking and had to take the opportunity - haha)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ASUPops View Post
                            Oh it is getting REALLY BAD!! So many students requesting room and board refunds are costing universities tens of millions already. Scores of universities are cutting funding across many departments. Some are cutting many sports, while others are going to either going to completely close or merge.

                            The "University Bubble" was already going to pop because demographics show there will be much fewer high school students graduating over the next 10 years....hence a major decline in enrollment across the board. And this was BEFORE COVID-19. Now, many students are going to take a 1 year hiatus or look at trade training instead.

                            As far as DII athletics, more than 30% of public universities and nearly 30% of privates were already running operating deficits. The NCAA said Division II basketball will receive 4.37% of actual revenues, currently projected to be $13.9 million for the division, which is a $30 million decrease from last year. YIKES!

                            On top of all this, you not only have to worry about the universities surviving, but you have to worry about the college towns surviving as well.

                            Well, the smoke being blown by AD's, university pres, etc...is clearing away pretty rapidly and folks are seeing what is really happening. If I were employed by a university, I would be looking at other options now.

                            SAD!
                            You are correct students are requesting refunds as they should, but the schools are not turning around and doing it at rapid speed either nor are they returning all of the fees they collected. UTSA sent notices they will be refunding some of the parking fees to students as well as some room and board for on campus resident students. Parking fees have been one of the biggest extortion of money on college campuses for years, so isn't that sweet of them to give some of it back to the students?

                            I feel for everyone who is having a negative impact thanks to the Covid thing. But in our whole economic sphere, college education will be the last to feel any real pain at least when it comes to massive layoffs and restructuring. They've always had the good ol' Fed and State governments step in with giving students more money in the form of grants and loans in order to continue that gravy train and cutting or consolidating operations or jobs was secondary. Sure some would make symbolic cuts and then scream this is the end of our school, but Uncle Sammy usually softened the blow. However this time might be different if the students don't show up. The schools which have died over the history of higher ed in this country almost always met their demise thanks to declining enrollment and if declines start at 10% and then multiply from there, then yes Houston you will have a problem. The other thing that was starting to catch on before this thing hit was some college aged kids going straight to trade schools instead of a traditional four year because many of the trades are significantly lacking skill workers. And you can thank a whole two or three decades of pushing kids to go the four year route instead of the trade route for this. Generation X (my generation) was the biggest beneficiary if you will of this thinking because we came of age while four year schools and other in the education establishment were trying to make amends for discrimination of the past and the best way to do this was to open the doors to everyone and open the checkbooks too in the form of scholarships and grants which pretty much shut out the trades. On top of this, in some areas counselors were reluctant to recommend trades to students because he or she might be accused of discrimination because for the fact of the matter back in the day like post 70's, some kids were discouraged to go four years because of stereotypes and discrimination. But now we have baby boomers and those on the edge of the baby boom generation retiring from these trade jobs and because Gen X was encouraged to go to service type jobs (IE non dirty Jobs), The millennials and whatever the current generation is called can and are picking up the slack albeit more are needed.

                            My oldest graduated from high school in 2016 and while my wife and I were sitting in the auditorium at his Senior awards night ceremony, a number of kids came on stage to pick up their Welders Certs from the local Community College for which they earned while finishing their Senior year. The kids were ALREADY working and the day they graduated from high school, many of them transitioned straight from part time to full time and started earning up to 60K on company time at some of the local refineries and pipe yards . On top of this, many find work off company time and easily earn another 10, 20 to 30k or more at least when the oil field was hot. I was sitting there thinking where do I sign up as a forty something old goat who was looking at the very real possibility I'd have to be making a job/industry transition which indeed is currently in progress.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=SW_Mustang;n507431]
                              Originally posted by LSC Fan View Post

                              People in the 1980's sat in their rooms and stared at computer screens for 12 hours a day? That explains... a lot, actually.


                              (I get what you mean, I'm just joking and had to take the opportunity - haha)
                              We had Atari and Commodore 64's. Don't make fun of us.

                              Comment

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