WT's Athletic Director Taking Position at Stephen F. Austin

[WT_TKW]

Seems to me that WT was well on their way to go easily past 11,000+ students in the early 2010's until the Carthel Fire, Wendler Hire, and then COVID.

I would think sustaining winning in the Southland would go hand and hand with attendance numbers.

If Volleyball and Basketball can mostly fill the gym for D2 games, hard to believe that wouldnt be the case if the same success is happening in the Southland.

I remember about 10 years ago when Florida Gulf Coast made their sweet 16 run, their enrollment numbers went through the roof.

It wont be easy but definitely can be done.

The challenge will be when Wendler leaves and how much time passes before people forget when WT football was relevant and if the new AD shares his vision of not giving a $hit about sports.

Yes. growth was good until Wendler. I am a Carthel fan but I don't think enrollment dropped due to him being fired. Attendance at the games definitely did as most do not want to watch lame football even if it's played in a new high school stadium. It may be the best stadium in D2 but remember the D2 championship game is played in a much nicer high school stadium. I would love to think Coach Lynn is going to be great, but last year's team looked like they didn't practice more than once a week.

I remember Wendler saying early on that there were "too many students on campus". I wonder if any other college president has said that in history? Of course later he would brag about telling students to go somewhere else if it saved them money. Sharp lauded this thinking. I wonder if Sharp also liked the faculty's vote of no confidence in Wendler?

So I think Wendler, who no longer publicizes the enrollment numbers, is just a symptom that WT is not on the good side of A&M. Obviously Tarleton and to some extent Commerce are. Maybe we could beg UT to take us...

[BuffaloChip]

Seems to me that WT was well on their way to go easily past 11,000+ students in the early 2010's until the Carthel Fire, Wendler Hire, and then COVID.

I would think sustaining winning in the Southland would go hand and hand with attendance numbers.

If Volleyball and Basketball can mostly fill the gym for D2 games, hard to believe that wouldnt be the case if the same success is happening in the Southland.

I remember about 10 years ago when Florida Gulf Coast made their sweet 16 run, their enrollment numbers went through the roof.

It wont be easy but definitely can be done.

The challenge will be when Wendler leaves and how much time passes before people forget when WT football was relevant and if the new AD shares his vision of not giving a $hit about sports.

Had O'Brien stayed 5 more years, I believe WT enrollment would now be at least 12,000. His goal was 15,000.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

$200 semester increased student fee brings in close to $4,000,000. Current budget is $11,300,000. That puts it up at $15,000,000. I think outside giving could make up another $2M-$3M a year. It's probably doable for the Southland.

Would school grow (Wendler finally gone)? Growth to 11,000 would brings in additional $1M. Would attendance for FB, BB, WBB, SB, and VB grow?

Seems to me that WT was well on their way to go easily past 11,000+ students in the early 2010's until the Carthel Fire, Wendler Hire, and then COVID.

I would think sustaining winning in the Southland would go hand and hand with attendance numbers.

If Volleyball and Basketball can mostly fill the gym for D2 games, hard to believe that wouldnt be the case if the same success is happening in the Southland.

I remember about 10 years ago when Florida Gulf Coast made their sweet 16 run, their enrollment numbers went through the roof.

It wont be easy but definitely can be done.

The challenge will be when Wendler leaves and how much time passes before people forget when WT football was relevant and if the new AD shares his vision of not giving a $hit about sports.

[Techster88]

I used to think attendance would grow. But I've surfed some ESPN Plus and have glanced in on a few of these Southland games. Attendance is horrendous. The MAC teams are all D1 FBS, and their attendance is embarrassing. Granted these are weekday night games but they are on national TV with practically no one in the stadium.

A poster mentioned Central Arkansas. I live close to there and no one goes to those games.

I guess it's possible that a president comes along one day at WT that thinks it's a grand idea. I just don't think they've got legit booster support. Most of what I hear is "I used to give them $200 a year but then they fired ______________ (fill in blank with coach's name)." Boy you show'd 'em who's boss!

To play big boy ball, you've got to have sustained, unwavering, big boy donors, and a lot of them. Most of WT's support is sofa change and highly conditional. Although in the Division 2 world, WT is king daddy.

Your guess would be wrong. Central Arkansas has over 8500 attendance for their home games. Their stadium is near capacity.

WT does well to scratch out 6500 fans which is decent for D2 considering some of the away do well to muster 2000 fans.

if this this is WT ‘s ceiling stay put.

if being King Daddy of Scrub Ball is where you want to be that’s fine by me. I’ll only get 10 hours of good sleep at night worrying about it.

my thinking is Universities want to be with their peer group.

[Herb Street]

$200 semester increased student fee brings in close to $4,000,000. Current budget is $11,300,000. That puts it up at $15,000,000. I think outside giving could make up another $2M-$3M a year. It's probably doable for the Southland.

Would school grow (Wendler finally gone)? Growth to 11,000 would brings in additional $1M. Would attendance for FB, BB, WBB, SB, and VB grow?

I used to think attendance would grow. But I've surfed some ESPN Plus and have glanced in on a few of these Southland games. Attendance is horrendous. The MAC teams are all D1 FBS, and their attendance is embarrassing. Granted these are weekday night games but they are on national TV with practically no one in the stadium.

A poster mentioned Central Arkansas. I live close to there and no one goes to those games.

I guess it's possible that a president comes along one day at WT that thinks it's a grand idea. I just don't think they've got legit booster support. Most of what I hear is "I used to give them $200 a year but then they fired ______________ (fill in blank with coach's name)." Boy you show'd 'em who's boss!

To play big boy ball, you've got to have sustained, unwavering, big boy donors, and a lot of them. Most of WT's support is sofa change and highly conditional. Although in the Division 2 world, WT is king daddy.

[Techster88]

This is getting pretty weird.

1. "Amarillo residents" aren't going to have any more interest in Northeastern Louisiana than Angelo State.
2. WT athletics isn't stale or stagnant. They have support that most schools can only dream about, some of the best facilities in Division 2, and are atop the rankings in almost every sport.

Maybe you missed the electric South Central Regional Men's basketball championship, or the jam-packed Fieldhouse for the South Central Volleyball tournament, or any number of the very competitive softball and baseball games.

You need to go to Canyon and check the teams out sometime instead of pining about yesteryear and visions of grandeur. It ain't happening.

I didn’t say anything about Northeastern La or the Southland Conference. I would stay put if that was the option. I said the UAC where there are schools like ACU, Tarleton and Central Arkansas etc.

if all you want is Canyon locals by all means stay D2. I was talking about reaching a larger fan base and Amarillo provides that.

Geez, talk about tunnel vision.

Filling a gym is NOT filling a Football Stadium

[BuffaloChip]

The investors would need to be thousands of Joe Sixpack supporters who are buying season tickets every year. I don't see any white knight company spending $ millions a year for WT to ball. For FCS and low D1 to even be viable, you need to have a budget of $16-18 million. Outside money needs to pay half of that, and consistently do so. The problem is, you can't budget for Joe Sixpack, because when he gets mad because you fired his coach, he quits giving. WT has more former supporters than active supporters, because their panties got in a wad a generation ago (or two, or three) and their $1000 annual check is conditional.

Real D1 programs have solid support regardless. Nebraska has been wandering in the desert for almost 20 years now, yet the faithful keep packing the stadium and giving the money. That's what it takes. I don't think WT has enough fans with balls enough to support the program through thick and thin.

$200 semester increased student fee brings in close to $4,000,000. Current budget is $11,300,000. That puts it up at $15,000,000. I think outside giving could make up another $2M-$3M a year. It's probably doable for the Southland.

Would school grow (Wendler finally gone)? Growth to 11,000 would brings in additional $1M. Would attendance for FB, BB, WBB, SB, and VB grow?

[MooseLodge]

I agree with your thought process. What you are missing is that Amarillo residents have little to no interest in watching WT Football in the current format. Sometimes, when things aren't working and apparently things aren't working that well at the present, you need to try a different combination.

Locals that want the football you are talking about will drive to Lubbock. As bad as Tech and Nebraska have been for quite a while they still seem to get fan support. But, most won't make that journey. There is an opportunity for WT to fill a void but someone will have to step up.

I do believe it would generate more excitement than winning the LSC going two rounds in the playoffs. WT current situation is like stale bread so to speak.

In college athletics today its either stagnation or growth. Pick your poison.

This is getting pretty weird.

1. "Amarillo residents" aren't going to have any more interest in Northeastern Louisiana than Angelo State.
2. WT athletics isn't stale or stagnant. They have support that most schools can only dream about, some of the best facilities in Division 2, and are atop the rankings in almost every sport.

Maybe you missed the electric South Central Regional Men's basketball championship, or the jam-packed Fieldhouse for the South Central Volleyball tournament, or any number of the very competitive softball and baseball games.

You need to go to Canyon and check the teams out sometime instead of pining about yesteryear and visions of grandeur. It ain't happening.

[EastStroud13]

None taken we live in the same region but I will bet you all the titles to my car, mortgage, retirement, etc. that the SWAC is the worst conference in D1 and that isn't even close.

Don't underestimate the NEC these days. That conference is a D2 conference masquerading as a D1 conference.

[Techster88]

The investors would need to be thousands of Joe Sixpack supporters who are buying season tickets every year. I don't see any white knight company spending $ millions a year for WT to ball. For FCS and low D1 to even be viable, you need to have a budget of $16-18 million. Outside money needs to pay half of that, and consistently do so. The problem is, you can't budget for Joe Sixpack, because when he gets mad because you fired his coach, he quits giving. WT has more former supporters than active supporters, because their panties got in a wad a generation ago (or two, or three) and their $1000 annual check is conditional.

Real D1 programs have solid support regardless. Nebraska has been wandering in the desert for almost 20 years now, yet the faithful keep packing the stadium and giving the money. That's what it takes. I don't think WT has enough fans with balls enough to support the program through thick and thin.

I agree with your thought process. What you are missing is that Amarillo residents have little to no interest in watching WT Football in the current format. Sometimes, when things aren't working and apparently things aren't working that well at the present, you need to try a different combination.

Locals that want the football you are talking about will drive to Lubbock. As bad as Tech and Nebraska have been for quite a while they still seem to get fan support. But, most won't make that journey. There is an opportunity for WT to fill a void but someone will have to step up.

I do believe it would generate more excitement than winning the LSC going two rounds in the playoffs. WT current situation is like stale bread so to speak.

In college athletics today its either stagnation or growth. Pick your poison.

[Herb Street]

I agree none there. But, if the UAC stays FCS there is some real competition there. Might even get some sponsors from Amarillo to invest, The talent on the field would definitely have to be upgraded as well. Food for thought.

The investors would need to be thousands of Joe Sixpack supporters who are buying season tickets every year. I don't see any white knight company spending $ millions a year for WT to ball. For FCS and low D1 to even be viable, you need to have a budget of $16-18 million. Outside money needs to pay half of that, and consistently do so. The problem is, you can't budget for Joe Sixpack, because when he gets mad because you fired his coach, he quits giving. WT has more former supporters than active supporters, because their panties got in a wad a generation ago (or two, or three) and their $1000 annual check is conditional.

Real D1 programs have solid support regardless. Nebraska has been wandering in the desert for almost 20 years now, yet the faithful keep packing the stadium and giving the money. That's what it takes. I don't think WT has enough fans with balls enough to support the program through thick and thin.

[Techster88]

Yeah I just don't see WT trudging to Louisiana and east Texas for a bulk of their games. There are some real crumbs in the LSC, but I don't know that there's any more fan interest in Nickels State or McNeese than Sul Ross or Kingsville. How many people in the Texas panhandle have ever even been to Louisiana?

I agree none there. But, if the UAC stays FCS there is some real competition there. Might even get some sponsors from Amarillo to invest, The talent on the field would definitely have to be upgraded as well. Food for thought.

[MooseLodge]

Every Conference will have their turd examples.

Ive been to McNeese and I know Corpus needs to upgrade their facilities.

Corpus is probably the team that needs to go to the WAC since they are not going to sponsor football anytime soon.

The message that is getting lost is the WAC is trying to become a FBS conference with the ASUN.

There is no place for any existing and incoming teams in WAC/ASUN in FBS....None,,,,,

Southland offers the FCS and other D1 sports.

Yeah I just don't see WT trudging to Louisiana and east Texas for a bulk of their games. There are some real crumbs in the LSC, but I don't know that there's any more fan interest in Nickels State or McNeese than Sul Ross or Kingsville. How many people in the Texas panhandle have ever even been to Louisiana?

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

I agree with the SWAC comment. I usually consider them in a different league because they tend to keep to themselves.

I'm a football guy and I see the UAC more challenging than the SLC year end and year out. The other sports the only thing I have to go on our power rankings and what SLC members say about themselves.

SLC from my experience are bottom feeders. I've been to several SLC sports venues including Corpus not impressed. SHSU is a microcosm of the whole conference. There is no interest. GOING FBS has did nothing to spark fan interest for them.

I would prefer the WAC where at least a TSU ACU game would have fans and a game atmosphere.

Lamar MCNeese game has become a joke. I'd rather watch HS Nederland PNG packed stadium with less talent

Every Conference will have their turd examples.

Ive been to McNeese and I know Corpus needs to upgrade their facilities.

Corpus is probably the team that needs to go to the WAC since they are not going to sponsor football anytime soon.

The message that is getting lost is the WAC is trying to become a FBS conference with the ASUN.

There is no place for any existing and incoming teams in WAC/ASUN in FBS....None,,,,,

Southland offers the FCS and other D1 sports.

[Brandon]

A lot of people also like to cherry pick mid week games where attendance wont be high due to work and school.

Yeah, it's really sad when Duke or Kansas can't fill the gym on a week night.