LSC changes, NW schools be prepared

[tsull]

I'm a follower of University of Idaho Athletics being irresids in my hometown. When they made the ill-fated move up to FBS football they couldn't find leagues to play in.

They joined the Big West and the rumor out was that it was to dump football. Idaho stood by and did nothing. The football league imploded, Idaho was left scrambling and landed in the old Western Athletic Conference. Boise State, Nevada, and others were in that league, it was pretty solid.

I don't know what happened next but I think that Nevada was the first to leave, going to the Mountain West and then Boise State followed. Idaho was left flat-footed again and had to play the Sunbelt Conference for a few years, very similar to WOU and CWUs life in a Texas league. The losses piled up, the Idaho did win a couple bowl games. For the most part the fans were less interested in playing Southern teams and they eventually went back to the Big Sky (FCS), where they belong.

To make a long story longer, CWU and WOU need to read the tea leaves like right now. Don't get caught flat-footed again. Basically there's no division 2 conference for Western Oregon to go to. I don't know what Central Washington's plans are. I won't speak for them. But I have mentioned independent football here time and time again for Western Oregon as I think that's the correct move. I'm afraid that we have such a lack of imagination from our administration and our athletic director that they would just cut the sport because it'll be easier for them. As a matter of fact I'm almost positive they would do that because they have no creativity.

I truly believe the Lone Star Conference is going to dump the Northwest schools. It's up to the Northwest schools respond accordingly.

[debergfan]

The options might be
Stay D2 but drop Football
D2 Independent
D2 RMAC with CSU-Pueblo, Colorado, Western, CO Mesa, S Dakota, Black Hills, Chadron, NM Highland, Ft Lewis, Adams St
D2 MIAA?
Move to NAIA, join the Frontier with MT Western, MT Tech, Southern C, Carroll MT, Col of Idaho, Eastern Or, Rocky Mtn, Arizona Ch, MT St North
Move to NAIA, join the Northwest with Linfield, Whitworth, Pac Lutheran, Pacific OR, Lewis & Clark, George Fox, Puget Sound, Willamette
Move up to FCS, join the Big Sky with Montana S, UC Davis, Idaho, Montana, Northern A, E Washing, CS Sacram, Portland St, Weber St, Idaho St, Cal Poly, N Colorado

[MooseLodge]

I'm a follower of University of Idaho Athletics being irresids in my hometown. When they made the ill-fated move up to FBS football they couldn't find leagues to play in.

They joined the Big West and the rumor out was that it was to dump football. Idaho stood by and did nothing. The football league imploded, Idaho was left scrambling and landed in the old Western Athletic Conference. Boise State, Nevada, and others were in that league, it was pretty solid.

I don't know what happened next but I think that Nevada was the first to leave, going to the Mountain West and then Boise State followed. Idaho was left flat-footed again and had to play the Sunbelt Conference for a few years, very similar to WOU and CWUs life in a Texas league. The losses piled up, the Idaho did win a couple bowl games. For the most part the fans were less interested in playing Southern teams and they eventually went back to the Big Sky (FCS), where they belong.

To make a long story longer, CWU and WOU need to read the tea leaves like right now. Don't get caught flat-footed again. Basically there's no division 2 conference for Western Oregon to go to. I don't know what Central Washington's plans are. I won't speak for them. But I have mentioned independent football here time and time again for Western Oregon as I think that's the correct move. I'm afraid that we have such a lack of imagination from our administration and our athletic director that they would just cut the sport because it'll be easier for them. As a matter of fact I'm almost positive they would do that because they have no creativity.

I truly believe the Lone Star Conference is going to dump the Northwest schools. It's up to the Northwest schools respond accordingly.

This is probably all about travel costs for the LSC schools, to the Northwest. Some of these LSC schools simply don't have the funds to make that trip. Not sure what the solution is. Might sound ludicrous, but perhaps CWU and WOU subsidize the LSC schools having to travel there to play. $50K a game. Is it fair? Nope. Is it the best solution? Might well be. Might be better to pay out $250K a year and have a viable conference, than dropping to NAIA or blazing the independent trail, which is a huge unknown.

[tsull]

This is probably all about travel costs for the LSC schools, to the Northwest. Some of these LSC schools simply don't have the funds to make that trip. Not sure what the solution is. Might sound ludicrous, but perhaps CWU and WOU subsidize the LSC schools having to travel there to play. $50K a game. Is it fair? Nope. Is it the best solution? Might well be. Might be better to pay out $250K a year and have a viable conference, than dropping to NAIA or blazing the independent trail, which is a huge unknown.

Not sure about CWU, we don't have the subsidy money. Independent is no more an unknown than consistently NOT making the playoffs in the LSC, where the teams are a zillion miles away. I'd rather play independent and give the money to WOU football, not Southwest Airlines. Get freaking field turf, build up scholarship money. Who cares if the slate consists of Lincoln of California, CWU, two FCS, Southern Oregon, Simpson (CA), an RMAC or LSC or two. That's no worse than LSC ball for WOU, perhaps not for others. NAIA in the Northwest is primarily small bible colleges, one which went out of business two weeks ago. They play in 300-seat or less gyms. Some good teams in their league, but they don't profile like WOU or CWU, or frankly EOU or SOU. Independent is not a dirty word, it's a good solution, IMO.

[tsull]

The options might be
Stay D2 but drop Football
D2 Independent
D2 RMAC with CSU-Pueblo, Colorado, Western, CO Mesa, S Dakota, Black Hills, Chadron, NM Highland, Ft Lewis, Adams St
D2 MIAA?
Move to NAIA, join the Frontier with MT Western, MT Tech, Southern C, Carroll MT, Col of Idaho, Eastern Or, Rocky Mtn, Arizona Ch, MT St North
Move to NAIA, join the Northwest with Linfield, Whitworth, Pac Lutheran, Pacific OR, Lewis & Clark, George Fox, Puget Sound, Willamette
Move up to FCS, join the Big Sky with Montana S, UC Davis, Idaho, Montana, Northern A, E Washing, CS Sacram, Portland St, Weber St, Idaho St, Cal Poly, N Colorado

RMAC no openings.

MIAA same travel problems.

NAIA nope, school isn't going back, those bus trips are worse than flights to Texas. Still, do NOT drop football.

The Northwest Conference is D3, not NAIA. When the NW NAIA league spit, it was led by Linfield, Lewis & Clark, and other private schools. It's an unwritten rule that they will not play state schools in conference. One year they let EOU in for football and quickly booted them for being a state school.

FCS, kidding me, right? Not even close to the numbers financially, enrollment-wise, stadium-wise, etc., to join. I get it, these are the options out there.

Best option is Independent football, no question about it. WOU admin will make this more complicated than it should be, saying there's no way they could play indy. Play Indy until things shake out, I think the NCAA will blow up once their CBS basketball contract ends (in 2033).

[Runnin' Cat]

This is probably all about travel costs for the LSC schools, to the Northwest. Some of these LSC schools simply don't have the funds to make that trip. Not sure what the solution is. Might sound ludicrous, but perhaps CWU and WOU subsidize the LSC schools having to travel there to play. $50K a game. Is it fair? Nope. Is it the best solution? Might well be. Might be better to pay out $250K a year and have a viable conference, than dropping to NAIA or blazing the independent trail, which is a huge unknown.

LSC schools would have at most two trips in a season. Most likely only one trip a year. CWU and WOU have at least three trips for LSC games.

[MooseLodge]

LSC schools would have at most two trips in a season. Most likely only one trip a year. CWU and WOU have at least three trips for LSC games.

Understood. But budgets are extremely tight right now. State tuition and fees are frozen by the governor, and you have declining enrollment. I suspect that trip is $50-75K per team and many simply do not have it. It's unfair to CWU and WOU for sure, but they are having to pay a price to have a conference to play in. Seems the RMAC would make a lot more sense? What is CWU and WOU doing for their other sports?

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

If the LSC does add Hardin Simmons and UMHB then its adios to WOU and CW no matter how good they are.

They need the LSC, not they other way around like a few years ago.

Independent football means giving up playoff dreams for all intent and purposes especially since there is the new rule that conference champs are now automatic playoff qualifiers.

Western Oregon needs to go back to NAIA. Central Washington by proxy will have to seriously consider either FCS or NAIA which isnt fair to them given how good their football program is.

[tsull]

If the LSC does add Hardin Simmons and UMHB then its adios to WOU and CW no matter how good they are.

They need the LSC, not they other way around like a few years ago.

Independent football means giving up playoff dreams for all intent and purposes especially since there is the new rule that conference champs are now automatic playoff qualifiers.

Western Oregon needs to go back to NAIA. Central Washington by proxy will have to seriously consider either FCS or NAIA which isnt fair to them given how good their football program is.

Dude we're not going to football playoffs. Stop it we've never gone to Division II playoffs we've gone to 3 NAIA playoffs in the history of football at the school which is more than 100 years. Building your program around a fairy tale is stupid. The most important thing is to keep football on campus. We enjoy the other division two sports which were in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference which fits us. Don't tell us to go to NAIA, you don't know our dynamics. The dumbest thing in the planet is to build your whole football program around playoffs that you're not going to.

[Runnin' Cat]

Dude we're not going to football playoffs. Stop it we've never gone to Division II playoffs we've gone to 3 NAIA playoffs in the history of football at the school which is more than 100 years. Building your program around a fairy tale is stupid. The most important thing is to keep football on campus. We enjoy the other division two sports which were in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference which fits us. Don't tell us to go to NAIA, you don't know our dynamics. The dumbest thing in the planet is to build your whole football program around playoffs that you're not going to.

Well stated.

NAIA football in the PNW is scarce. SOU, EOU in Oregon. CoI in Idaho, then a slew of teams in Montana. ZERO NAIA football in WA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...A_programs.png

[cwfenn]

If the LSC does add Hardin Simmons and UMHB then its adios to WOU and CW no matter how good they are.

They need the LSC, not they other way around like a few years ago.

Independent football means giving up playoff dreams for all intent and purposes especially since there is the new rule that conference champs are now automatic playoff qualifiers.

Western Oregon needs to go back to NAIA. Central Washington by proxy will have to seriously consider either FCS or NAIA which isnt fair to them given how good their football program is.

Hardin-Simmons - is WT making a backroom deal with them to bring back the BIAA?

I can't tell you much anything about WOU's and CWU's financial situation, but if they need pay games to get through an LSC season, I would imagine it would be quite hard for them to move up to FCS. But then again, I've seen a bunch of old NE10 schools move up the last few years (but that's apples and oranges, no one's going to confuse the Northeast Conference with a "real" football league!)

D3/NAIA may very well tick off a bunch of alumni (if tsull is reflective of the alumni base).

[tsull]

Hardin-Simmons - is WT making a backroom deal with them to bring back the BIAA?

I can't tell you much anything about WOU's and CWU's financial situation, but if they need pay games to get through an LSC season, I would imagine it would be quite hard for them to move up to FCS. But then again, I've seen a bunch of old NE10 schools move up the last few years (but that's apples and oranges, no one's going to confuse the Northeast Conference with a "real" football league!)

D3/NAIA may very well tick off a bunch of alumni (if tsull is reflective of the alumni base).

There's no division 3 option in the West Coast. It's private schools only. NAIA is mostly bible schools. We don't fit that profile. Someone told me years ago that independent football just kills recruiting. What recruiting? We're taking a ton of kids from Oregon, who don't have other places to go and don't feel like playing at Southern Utah. We're also taking Northern California kids who quickly found out that there's no division 2 football in the entire state of California.

So if the playoff thing is the big stickler, we're playing so we can get drilled in the first round if we make it and that somehow makes our program great. I would rather just have football on campus at the division 2 independent level. Things are going to shake down in a few years with the ncaa. Figure out a schedule of West Coast schools from different levels and go from there. I'm trying to figure out what national playoffs and national titles they're talking about in regards to Western Oregon.

Central Washington is wired differently. They have double or more our enrollment and I've heard they're up around 30 scholarships for division 2, which is impressive. Sure we'd like to tag along with them wherever they go, but I think Western Oregon needs to make their own bed and figure out something that works for them. Quit putting your money into Southwest Airlines and put it into football infrastructure, starting with field turf.

[debergfan]

If the LSC does add Hardin Simmons and UMHB then its adios to WOU and CW no matter how good they are.

They need the LSC, not they other way around like a few years ago.

Independent football means giving up playoff dreams for all intent and purposes especially since there is the new rule that conference champs are now automatic playoff qualifiers.

Western Oregon needs to go back to NAIA. Central Washington by proxy will have to seriously consider either FCS or NAIA which isnt fair to them given how good their football program is.

Dave Campbell is typically right on the mark, though I suspect he often gets his info straight from assistant coaches, at least from what I can tell. How serious do you think Hardin-Simmons and UMHB are about joining the Lone Star Conference?

Facilities look legit
https://hsuathletics.com/facilities/shelton-stadium/1
https://cruathletics.com/sports/2022...acilities.aspx

I'm sure both NW schools pay something to LSC. Otherwise LSC would be better off adding the Delta State, at least you can do the trip in a bus.10-12 hours seems reasonable for football (I'm biased with Delta St)

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Dude we're not going to football playoffs. Stop it we've never gone to Division II playoffs we've gone to 3 NAIA playoffs in the history of football at the school which is more than 100 years. Building your program around a fairy tale is stupid. The most important thing is to keep football on campus. We enjoy the other division two sports which were in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference which fits us. Don't tell us to go to NAIA, you don't know our dynamics. The dumbest thing in the planet is to build your whole football program around playoffs that you're not going to.

Whats the purpose of staying D2 if you are going to play an independent schedule of mostly FCS/NAIA/D3 and some D2 sprinkled in if the LSC kicks you out?

Most of your games are going to be on the road especially the D2 games and up with an independent schedule.

I dont think any non provisional/divisional D2 school even goes this route.

Also what legit recruits are going to want to go to a situation like that with no playoff shot or possible competitive team?

They can get away with that at FCS/FBS because you are offering a D1 shot with full scholarships.

I think its either drop football or move all sports up/down if the LSC kicks them out.

Ironically the LSC would be the ones in trouble if the FCS dominoes start with Angelo State, Midwestern State, etc. moving up.

There are a few years to see how it plays out.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Dave Campbell is typically right on the mark, though I suspect he often gets his info straight from assistant coaches, at least from what I can tell. How serious do you think Hardin-Simmons and UMHB are about joining the Lone Star Conference?

Facilities look legit
https://hsuathletics.com/facilities/shelton-stadium/1
https://cruathletics.com/sports/2022...acilities.aspx

I'm sure both NW schools pay something to LSC. Otherwise LSC would be better off adding the Delta State, at least you can do the trip in a bus.10-12 hours seems reasonable for football (I'm biased with Delta St)

I think if one goes, the other will go. UMHB would be the first to go and then HSU would follow.

Call me crazy but I think UMHB would explore FCS before D2.