Tidbit of information

[Stea1th]

Re: Tidbit of information

This is from the Conference constitution. It looks like Urbana actually might have more to worry about than WJU. If Urbana is allowed to count Franklin University's students and transition to Franklin's accreditation, then they are likely fine. Officially, it looks like WJU meets the MEC sponsored sports requirement.

Section 2 Minimum Qualifications To be a member of the Conference, institutions must:

2.1 Be fully accredited four-year degree granting institutions of higher education.
2.2 Be active members, in good standing, of the NCAA or be admitted to the membership process for NCAA Division II and making satisfactory progress in the process to attain active membership.
2.3 Be fully compatible with the goals and aspirations of the conference, as set forth in the Constitution and Bylaws.
2.4 Be geographically compatible with current conference members.
2.5 Be required to maintain a head count enrollment of at least one thousand students based on a three-year rolling average.
2.6 Meet sports sponsorship in accordance with NCAA membership requirements as set forth below:
2.6.1 Institutions sponsoring football must also sponsor a minimum nine additional conference championship sports.
2.6.2 Institutions not sponsoring football must sponsor a minimum twelve conference championship sports.
2.7 Meet standards for athletic administration set forth in the Bylaws.

[Columbuseer]

[JesuitHoops]

Re: Tidbit of information

It amazes me that we are still beating this poor horse. I get a kick out of some of these posts, because you can tell who actually does research and has some respect and those who have no idea what they are talking about. The main disdain comes from a select few West Liberty fans who just seem like this issue is ruining their daily lives. It's actually refreshing to see some other posters who shed some support.

[boatcapt]

Re: Tidbit of information

Stealth...To the three points you highlighted:

1. Urbana becoming a campus o Franklin means they fall under Franklin's accreditation so the Urbana accreditation issue goes away.
2. The enrolment requirement does not specify on-campus or even undergraduate. I think Urbana's total enrolment is well over the 1000 three year average.
3. Urbana sponsors football.

[boatcapt]

Re: Tidbit of information

Columbus...To your pot #2, how many DII sports turn a profit for any school? For that matter, how many D1 schools turn a profit in any sport beyond the relatively few power football and basketball programs? In the big scheme of things, colleges are a collection of money losing "things"...some of which schools award credits for. Never seen a student union, remodeled dorm or free campus wide wireless internet service that directly earned a profit.

[Stea1th]

Re: Tidbit of information

Stealth...To the three points you highlighted:

1. Urbana becoming a campus o Franklin means they fall under Franklin's accreditation so the Urbana accreditation issue goes away.
2. The enrolment requirement does not specify on-campus or even undergraduate. I think Urbana's total enrolment is well over the 1000 three year average.
3. Urbana sponsors football.

1. Agree. That's what I was trying to say. They didn't switch to Franklin's accreditation yet, but I'm assuming they might.

2. Urbana has 483 undergrads. But, if they are allowed to count Franklin students, they should be fine.

3. Agree, they do. The section of the bylaws I posted above seems to indicate that being non-football is completely acceptable. Is there another bylaw I'm missing that requires football?

[Columbuseer]

Re: Tidbit of information

Very few D1 schools are making a profit (see U. of Md before joining the Big 10).The Football Facilities arms race will cause a lot of schools to drop football, especially those with good academic reputations. MAC schools would be my guess as one of the first shoes to drop. That is the coming storm. Once people become more aware of how much tuition is funding college football for what is essentially the NFL minor leagues, folks will vote with their feet.

The difference between football and and other non-revenue generating sports is magnitude of the losses. Some money losing services like free interent services actually can support academic advancement. Football requires too many players and too many coaches.

Look, I used to love football; was a crazy WVU fan. But the reality of the injuries makes me wonder: how am I different from the fans in the Roman Coliseum? Student tuition is going to finance a sport that is like being in 20 car crashes every Saturday. I have a D1 Wr friend who just got a knee replacement and back surgery from football at age 50. He said he would not allow his kids to play, based on what he knows today.

[HeavenontheHill]

[Stea1th]

Re: Tidbit of information

[Stea1th]

Re: Tidbit of information

There may be another reason for the rewrite. They may have left the non-football door cracked open in the original for another reason. Through the years I've heard a few people who know more about the formation of the MEC than I do indicate that Cedarville (OH) was approached by the now-MEC WVIAC colleges when Urbana and Notre Dame were approached. Cedarville is a non football college and likely never plan on starting it. My understanding is that the MEC knew that but pursued them anyway. The thought process regarding the Cedarville invite, as explained to me, was that it would have likely led to ODU, Walsh and Malone eventually joining the MEC. This would have led to 16 total schools, 14 with football. As explained to me, that would have been the conference, fully built out. Strategically, a Cedarville addition also would have likely killed off the GMAC, as it held the geographic middle ground of that very spread out conference. I know this may seem far fetched to some of you. I posted on this once before a long time ago and people shot the theory down with a vengeance and they may absolutely be right. I will say that the folks I heard it from are usually pretty on point with this type of stuff. Also it is not lost on me that Cedarville stayed GMAC and now the same three schools that were identified to me earlier, are now joining them in the GMAC.

[Stea1th]

Re: Tidbit of information

I know I am probably viewed as a contrarian on here. I don't mean to be. I just come from a different position. Most of you probably wear a WVIAC MEC hat. If you could take it off for a second and imagine yourself in Notre Dame's position you might not think I'm so crazy. There was always a thought from our side that other OH schools would likely be joining at some point and that the end goal was a truly regional conference. Then you hear other posters say that OH schools did actually inquire but were told no. Then the OH schools that you were told were targets go to another conference. Then you constantly hear on here that everyone wants to kick the college that is located closest to you out of the conference. Add to that the only other OH college is in enrollment, financial and accreditation straights and no one really knows if they are going to be around long term or not. That is the seat we sit in and it does admittedly influence my views. I'm not purposely trying to be a contrarian.

[boatcapt]

Re: Tidbit of information

Section 2 represents the Minimum Qualification for a school to be a member of the MEC. WJ meets this basic requirement. The MEC Presidents have chosen to levy additional five SPECIFIC requirements to be a member in Section 3. One of these Membership Requirements is that member schools must meet the Core Sports requirement for men and women sport sponsorship. One of these core sports that all member colleges are required to sponsor is men's football.

So in short, WJ meets the Minimum Qualifications to be a member of the MEC but does not meet the Membership Requirements. Kind of like a HS player that meets the NCAA minimum eligibility qualifications to play college football but doesn't meet the admission requirements of the university that he wants to attend.

[boatcapt]

Re: Tidbit of information

I know I am probably viewed as a contrarian on here. I don't mean to be. I just come from a different position. Most of you probably wear a WVIAC MEC hat. If you could take it off for a second and imagine yourself in Notre Dame's position you might not think I'm so crazy. There was always a thought from our side that other OH schools would likely be joining at some point and that the end goal was a truly regional conference. Then you hear other posters say that OH schools did actually inquire but were told no. Then the OH schools that you were told were targets go to another conference. Then you constantly hear on here that everyone wants to kick the college that is located closest to you out of the conference. Add to that the only other OH college is in enrollment, financial and accreditation straights and no one really knows if they are going to be around long term or not. That is the seat we sit in and it does admittedly influence my views. I'm not purposely trying to be a contrarian.

The membership issue in the MEC is a direct result of WJ's refusal to live up to their agreement and the MEC's desire to give them many (way too many) chances to live up to their agreement. Had WJ been honest and up front at the beginning, they probably would not have been invited to join the MEC. That would have ment the MEC would have been looking for a 12th football playing school. Pretty good chance this would have been an Ohio school. Once the MEC had its 12th football playing school, they would have been in position right about NOW to expand to the next logical step which I believe would be 16 schools (all playing football). Given the number of Ohio schools fleeing the GLIAC, I would imagine that at least a couple of those that made inquries about joining the MEC would have been invited to join.

The MEC at it's core wants to have a memberhip roster were all schools sponsor football. Having one school that is able to avoid the cost of football and put all its money in other sports makes the playing field uneven. One of the major issues that lead to the breakup of the WVIAC was the uneven nature of athletic commitment between members playing football and those that didn't. One of the major goals of the MEC was that ALL members would be on a level playing field.

As for your desire for NDC to "never vote against" WJ, if you want additional Ohio membership of the MEC, you might want to reconsider.

Unlike the GMAC which is under tremendous pressure to expand, the MEC is not. They are doing quite well improving their national competitive level across the sporting spectrum which was one of the major goals when the MEC was formed. Adding schools just to add schools makes no sense.

[alumnifan]

Re: Tidbit of information

Unlike the GMAC which is under tremendous pressure to expand, the MEC is not. They are doing quite well improving their national competitive level across the sporting spectrum which was one of the major goals when the MEC was formed. Adding schools just to add schools makes no sense.

I'm not following you. Can you explain how the G-MAC is under pressure to expand?

Sure, KWC would like to have had a couple NAIA programs be allowed to join. That did not work out. Still, the G-MAC will be expanding next season and the season after that. And, that will not be the end of the expansion.

I was ridiculed on this board when I mentioned a few years ago that the G-MAC would have a Football Conference. The general consensus among the other G-MAC contributors on the D2 Message Board is there is No Hurry to add other programs. I have a feeling who may join the G-MAC in the future. Still, building a conference takes time.

What goes around, comes around.

[alumnifan]

Re: Tidbit of information

Just for the record, KWC WR and D2 All American Keelan Cole signed a free agent contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars.

And, KWC won three of the five major sports conference Championships this season. A new state of the art Track and Field should be completed next Spring, and I will be thrilled when USI goes D1. Their baseball team was eliminated from the NCAA Regional Tournament today, and Bellarmine was also eliminated by KWC today, 10-2.