West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

You should really have a long call with Ben about scheduling more creampuffs. Rants on here don't accomplish anything. He's the boss.

Of note your other WL fans don't seem to mind playing better teams in the non-conf. The days of it just being two good teams in the Atlantic are long gone. He is scheduling more for the resume than the perceived false theory of Nov. games impacting March performance.

My selective recall is recalling reading your same complaints every time WL loses to a real team in the non-conf.

You must have a really good selective memory! Before last year, the last time WLU lost an OOC game was 8 years ago (2011) when they lost to Finlay!

Not going to talk to Ben. I would hope he has more important things to do than talk to a fan about his scheduling and I would certainly hope he doesn't take "advice" from a message board!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I see some of Boat's side to the non-conference. For years and years Joe has done the polar opposite.

Last season IUP'S schedule was so brutal that many beleive they just wore out in the second half. I've never seen a tougher first half schedule than he played last year. Ever. And, in March he had little to show for it minus the PSAC Title. The conference title is a great thing but that team was built for much larger things. There's been years he's missed the NCAAs because they played (and lost) to Ferris State and Findlay rather than playing two creampuffs. He had a young team that year and it made no sense to open the season with two powers (Ferris won the title that year).

Ideal world, I'd prefer one marquee game, 1-2 meatballs and 3-4 against .500-ish teams. The marquee game is a great tune-up for the conference season. It's also good for the fans. Nobody wants to see the big dogs playing D3 teams or the trash of D2 over and over.

The resume is a real factor in selecting those schedules. With so many strong teams in the Atlantic nowadays if you want to host you have to have very strong metrics. Heck, you need strong metrics just to get invited.

It's not basketball season if there's not at least some bickering on here.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

You seem to be suffering from selective recall. Select posters on this board constantly lamb basted WLU and Crutch for not playing tough early season games like THEIR team. There was a constant harrang about how much better WLU would be if they only scheduled tough teams early like THEIR team did.

To your second point, while it may make WLU better NOW, by the time March roles around any positive benefit is long past.

Never said Ben did or should feel pressure from a message board.

The winning % of the teams in "those years" bears out my point. It is as simple as doing the research.

The argument is not is WLU "terrified" to play anyone, the arguments are is it better for WLU's March success for them to play tough OOC opponents early in the season as other team and now Ben does OR is it better for their March success to schedule weaker early season opponents as Crutch does? My point is and always has been that early season wins and team building (extended practice) pays much more divided come March tourney time that the "benefit" WLU gets by playing, and losing to, a tough early season foe.

As for athletic big's being WLU's kryptonite, they always have been and neither Crutch OR Ben seems willing to make any effort to counter that. Their "plans" seems to be to hope they avoid them or if they can't avoid them, hope they have a bad game when they play WLU. Just my opinion, but I don't think hope is much of a plan.

You should really have a long call with Ben about scheduling more creampuffs. Rants on here don't accomplish anything. He's the boss.

Of note your other WL fans don't seem to mind playing better teams in the non-conf. The days of it just being two good teams in the Atlantic are long gone. He is scheduling more for the resume than the perceived false theory of Nov. games impacting March performance.

My selective recall is recalling reading your same complaints every time WL loses to a real team in the non-conf.

[boatcapt]

you make good points.
sometimes teams under stress in close games revert to old habits that depart from the wl style or they try to win the game by themselves. Imho playing cupcakes early. would not reveal these issues. Of course one cannot play too many tough teams.

It is a long season and other teams will likely have losses along the way. Perhaps if we convincingly defeat wesleyan and Charleston in the rematch, it will help us. Will <= 5 losses in the Atlantic and a strong February get teams in the tourney?

wl is in a strange situation from a numbers perspective. No seniors on the team and 6 new players that must get significant minutes, whether they are ready or not. But they are very talented and willing to learn.

Very true. But as they say, practice makes perfect. WLU's "style" is very unique to most players and it takes time to adjust and for it to become second nature. Given the depth WLU always plays with, it is not enough to only have your top 5 operating like a well oiled WLU basketball machine...It is just as important to have the number 9, 10 and 11 guys on your bench being able to come in and mesh seamlessly. WLU has traditionally done that through playing lesser opponents early in the season were the end of the bench players get a lot of minutes. As the season progressed, the minutes declined for these guys until the coach had a solid core of 10 players he felt comfortable platooning or mixing and matching as needed. All you have to do is look at the minute distribution for WLU players as the season progresses. Quite common for players that started the season getting many many minutes being relegated to single digits as the calendar turns.

[boatcapt]

But it did cost you that year and the committee gave you a four seed due to it. That's when Ben said in the media he wanted to beef it up. Your coach said that ... nobody else's.

I still think losing to Daemen made you better than beating Pitt-Greensburg by 80 points.

I also highly doubt Ben felt peer pressure from a stupid message board.

To your last paragraph ... you had better teams those years. It's as simple as that.

Your arguments make you sound like WL is terrified to play anybody with a pulse in the non-conference.

Daemen right now anyway is just a better team and also has WL kryptonite in that big kid. He's on par with Sleva. Losing to Daemen on the road won't kill you. Losing at home to WVW is a different story.

You seem to be suffering from selective recall. Select posters on this board constantly lamb basted WLU and Crutch for not playing tough early season games like THEIR team. There was a constant harrang about how much better WLU would be if they only scheduled tough teams early like THEIR team did.

To your second point, while it may make WLU better NOW, by the time March roles around any positive benefit is long past.

Never said Ben did or should feel pressure from a message board.

The winning % of the teams in "those years" bears out my point. It is as simple as doing the research.

The argument is not is WLU "terrified" to play anyone, the arguments are is it better for WLU's March success for them to play tough OOC opponents early in the season as other team and now Ben does OR is it better for their March success to schedule weaker early season opponents as Crutch does? My point is and always has been that early season wins and team building (extended practice) pays much more divided come March tourney time that the "benefit" WLU gets by playing, and losing to, a tough early season foe.

As for athletic big's being WLU's kryptonite, they always have been and neither Crutch OR Ben seems willing to make any effort to counter that. Their "plans" seems to be to hope they avoid them or if they can't avoid them, hope they have a bad game when they play WLU. Just my opinion, but I don't think hope is much of a plan.

[Columbuseer]

But it did cost you that year and the committee gave you a four seed due to it. That's when Ben said in the media he wanted to beef it up. Your coach said that ... nobody else's.

I still think losing to Daemen made you better than beating Pitt-Greensburg by 80 points.

I also highly doubt Ben felt peer pressure from a stupid message board.

To your last paragraph ... you had better teams those years. It's as simple as that.

Your arguments make you sound like WL is terrified to play anybody with a pulse in the non-conference.

Daemen right now anyway is just a better team and also has WL kryptonite in that big kid. He's on par with Sleva. Losing to Daemen on the road won't kill you. Losing at home to WVW is a different story.

you make good points.
sometimes teams under stress in close games revert to old habits that depart from the wl style or they try to win the game by themselves. Imho playing cupcakes early. would not reveal these issues. Of course one cannot play too many tough teams.

It is a long season and other teams will likely have losses along the way. Perhaps if we convincingly defeat wesleyan and Charleston in the rematch, it will help us. Will <= 5 losses in the Atlantic and a strong February get teams in the tourney?

wl is in a strange situation from a numbers perspective. No seniors on the team and 6 new players that must get significant minutes, whether they are ready or not. But they are very talented and willing to learn.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

That was the "argument" that some made. If I remember correctly, the major proponents of having WLU play a tougher early season schedule were fans of OTHER teams. Always struck me as odd that fans of another regional power would want us to derive what they foisted as the great post season benefit of playing tougher teams. Always felt that it was more a desire to have us lose additional games which would positively effect THEIR ability to host regionals.

If I remember correctly, the often spouted lines were:

1. WLU needs to play a tougher OOC schedule.
2. WLU needs to play early games on the road.

Folks on the board did point to the 17-18 seeding and say "SEE...YOU DON'T PLAY TOUGH LIKE US AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET." Of course, they convienantly ignore 14, 15, 16 and 17 when we garnered top 3 seedings (and two Regional Championships) playing an easy OOC schedule.

But it did cost you that year and the committee gave you a four seed due to it. That's when Ben said in the media he wanted to beef it up. Your coach said that ... nobody else's.

I still think losing to Daemen made you better than beating Pitt-Greensburg by 80 points.

I also highly doubt Ben felt peer pressure from a stupid message board.

To your last paragraph ... you had better teams those years. It's as simple as that.

Your arguments make you sound like WL is terrified to play anybody with a pulse in the non-conference.

Daemen right now anyway is just a better team and also has WL kryptonite in that big kid. He's on par with Sleva. Losing to Daemen on the road won't kill you. Losing at home to WVW is a different story.

[boatcapt]

No disrespect to our opponents, but our losses were more due to wl not consistently playing their style. Imho some reasons:
- takes a while to unlearn how u have played for years and replace it with wl stylesome bumps in the road.

And THAT is exactly what WLU used to use the early part of their schedule each year to do! Under Crutch, the early part of the season was typically treated as an extended practice were new players "unlearned" what they had done previously, the team as a whole learned what each players strengths, weaknesses and tendencies were and Crutch learned how best to manage the team to get maximum results.

I too feel they will be better in March...Question is, will there BE a March??

We've almost used up our quota of "bumps" and we are only 10 games into the season.

[boatcapt]

Isn't the argument, however, the 2017-18 season when you guys had a 26-2 record but got seeded 4th due to the awful non-conference schedule?

Aside from Daemen, Ben isn't exactly playing a world-beater schedule here so I'm not following your point. The rest: Shaw (4-5), Mansfield (2-6), Salem (4-6), Ohio Valley (3-8), Ohio Dominican (4-8). Aside from Daemen, I'm not sure how he could have scheduled any easier?

Losing at home to a 4-7 (then 1-6) West Virginia Wesleyan is far more hurtful than losing to Daemen.

That was the "argument" that some made. If I remember correctly, the major proponents of having WLU play a tougher early season schedule were fans of OTHER teams. Always struck me as odd that fans of another regional power would want us to derive what they foisted as the great post season benefit of playing tougher teams. Always felt that it was more a desire to have us lose additional games which would positively effect THEIR ability to host regionals.

If I remember correctly, the often spouted lines were:

1. WLU needs to play a tougher OOC schedule.
2. WLU needs to play early games on the road.

Folks on the board did point to the 17-18 seeding and say "SEE...YOU DON'T PLAY TOUGH LIKE US AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET." Of course, they convienantly ignore 14, 15, 16 and 17 when we garnered top 3 seedings (and two Regional Championships) playing an easy OOC schedule.

[Columbuseer]

[Columbuseer]

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I would agree with your supposition that Crutch scheduled easy because he couldn't find difficult opponents if it wasn't apparently so easy for Ben to find difficult opponents. I believe there are SOME difficult teams that are not willing to play WLU, but not EVERY difficult opponent then or now is unwilling.

IMHO, the reason Crutch scheduled like he did (does) is because he's looking for certain "outcomes" on the season. He understands that Rule Number 1 is "just win baby" and losing to a tough opponent early in the year does a lot more harm to a team come playoff selection time than any perceived "battle toughness" it may provide when in the playoffs at the end of the season. Not saying Crutch NEVER scheduled a random 'tough game," but as Scrub pointed out, on the occasions when it did happen, it was typically around/over Christmas...AFTER he had used the early season to whip the players into shape and build team chemistry.

I would be hard pressed to disagree with the wisdom of what Crutch does and how he schedules...both at WLU and now at Nova. Clearly Ben sees things differently and perhaps this year is just an aberration...but I would note that we are sitting at 7-3 and unranked for the first time in a LOONNNGGGG time. Ben has plenty of games left this year to prove the wisdom of how he does things over how his mentor Crutch did them...but if you were a betting man, who would you put money on being the "right" way of doing things??

Isn't the argument, however, the 2017-18 season when you guys had a 26-2 record but got seeded 4th due to the awful non-conference schedule?

Aside from Daemen, Ben isn't exactly playing a world-beater schedule here so I'm not following your point. The rest: Shaw (4-5), Mansfield (2-6), Salem (4-6), Ohio Valley (3-8), Ohio Dominican (4-8). Aside from Daemen, I'm not sure how he could have scheduled any easier?

Losing at home to a 4-7 (then 1-6) West Virginia Wesleyan is far more hurtful than losing to Daemen.

[boatcapt]

I would agree with your supposition that Crutch scheduled easy because he couldn't find difficult opponents if it wasn't apparently so easy for Ben to find difficult opponents. I believe there are SOME difficult teams that are not willing to play WLU, but not EVERY difficult opponent then or now is unwilling.

IMHO, the reason Crutch scheduled like he did (does) is because he's looking for certain "outcomes" on the season. He understands that Rule Number 1 is "just win baby" and losing to a tough opponent early in the year does a lot more harm to a team come playoff selection time than any perceived "battle toughness" it may provide when in the playoffs at the end of the season. Not saying Crutch NEVER scheduled a random 'tough game," but as Scrub pointed out, on the occasions when it did happen, it was typically around/over Christmas...AFTER he had used the early season to whip the players into shape and build team chemistry.

I would be hard pressed to disagree with the wisdom of what Crutch does and how he schedules...both at WLU and now at Nova. Clearly Ben sees things differently and perhaps this year is just an aberration...but I would note that we are sitting at 7-3 and unranked for the first time in a LOONNNGGGG time. Ben has plenty of games left this year to prove the wisdom of how he does things over how his mentor Crutch did them...but if you were a betting man, who would you put money on being the "right" way of doing things??

[Columbuseer]

Per VC, the biblical figure down in Florida snagged a power forward from Ohio.

A PF who shoots 36% from three and had 3.75 GPA. Had some interest from Penn. I suspect he is another do it all player like 6-10 Shane hunter this year.

Sunahara was injured against ave Maria. Probably a factor in close loss to Rollins. Matchup nightmare.

[Columbuseer]

I like it, Boat. Bringin' the data! Your point is a good one. Up above in the discussion, I was paying more attention to the period just before that (10-11, 11-12, etc.) when it seemed like Crutch was more willing to challenge himself. But there's no arguing with the data you provided about the last 5 years. It does appear that Crutch & Howlett differ in their philosophy on the OOC schedule. Neither guy won the championship on the Hilltop, so it's tough to say which philosophy works better in March (which both philosophies are geared for). I would say Howlett's team overachieved expectations in March last year, so that's a good sign. This year is off to a rough start to say the least. Guess we'll see.