Fully funded vs not fully funded

[Dirtybird]

I have heard that term often and I know that it has something to do with the amount of scholarships/money a program has. Does fully funded mean that the school has the money available to offer that max scholarships the NCAA allows?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

I have heard that term often and I know that it has something to do with the amount of scholarships/money a program has. Does fully funded mean that the school has the money available to offer that max scholarships the NCAA allows?

It will vary by league. In the PSAC the teams have to raise their own scholarship money. Well, the 'state school' members do. We have some private schools who are not members of the PASSHE (Seton Hill, UPJ, Gannon, Mercyhurst and soon Shepherd).

By and large, yes, 'fully funded' means you are at max scholarships. D2 football is 36. I believe men's basketball is 10.

Fightingscot82 is the guru on this topic but that is the nutshell version. He can explain how the private schools work much better.

For many D2 programs getting that yearly $150,000 or whatever the number is for 10 full rides is a huge challenge. Most teams in the PSAC probably have about 3 to 5 scholarship equivalencies to divide up amongst the whole roster. So, if they full ride one guy ... the rest get less of a cut.

It's largely why the same teams are good every year and the same teams are bad every year. The playing field is far from level. Football is even worse.

There is some real scheming at play, too. For instance everybody knew IUP was going to be loaded this year in men's basketball. Teams can elect not to spend all their money this year and save it for next year in an attempt to load up for a run next season. That stuff happens. SRU did it last year. That's how KR got all those guys this year.

It's why I always say the most important job a coach has in the PSAC is being a salesman. If he can't raise money he could be John Wooden and it won't matter. He needs boosters. Lots of them.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

10 scholarships are the max to the best of my knowledge in college hoops. At least in D-II. Not sure about the upper levels.

I would assume that fully-funded would mean that a school is operating at the max amount of scholie's permitted.

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[Dirtybird]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

That was gonna be my next question, how is it different for state and private. You mentioned it works better for privates but I thought there was state funding that state schools got but privates did not. Also privates are much more expensive to attend in most cases.

[Columbuseer]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

10 scholarships are the max to the best of my knowledge in college hoops. At least in D-II. Not sure about the upper levels.

I would assume that fully-funded would mean that a school is operating at the max amount of scholie's permitted.

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FYI 13 in d1

[Tech Boys]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

FYI 13 in d1

Those 13 D1 scholarships is headcount, not equivalencies.

Here is a good site for scholarship info: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

That was gonna be my next question, how is it different for state and private. You mentioned it works better for privates but I thought there was state funding that state schools got but privates did not. Also privates are much more expensive to attend in most cases.

I meant the context of he can it explain it much better ... not that it works much better. Sorry for the confusion.

You are correct they do cost more and usually have tougher admission standards. The privates can drastically discount tuition. The public schools cannot.

Down your way I believe, on the surface anyway, Wheeling Jesuit's tuition is double WL's.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

The state-owned PSAC schools (everyone but Gannon, Mercyhurst, Pitt-Johnstown, and Seton Hill) must raise every dollar they award in athletic scholarships. Whether its from alumni donations, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc. it can't come from tuition or state appropriation. The athletic scholarship dollars they award is real money (endowments or revenue) they use to pay the student's bill.

The private schools work like a car dealership. They advertise an inflated sticker price that very few actually pay but instead of the net price being negotiable they piece it out in awards/grants/scholarships whatever you want to call it. $5,000 off sticker for having a decent GPA & SAT. $4,000 because you'll play football. Just like the local Chevy dealer offers $500 for a first-time buyer, loyalty, college grad, or military. Its a discount rather than $500 someone gave them to reduce the price of the car.

Pitt Johnstown is somewhere in between. They're state-funded but not state-owned or state-controlled. My guess is that UPJ can budget the discount but obviously they don't have the price flexibility of the private schools.

Hope that helps.

[boatcapt]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

The state-owned PSAC schools (everyone but Gannon, Mercyhurst, Pitt-Johnstown, and Seton Hill) must raise every dollar they award in athletic scholarships. Whether its from alumni donations, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc. it can't come from tuition or state appropriation. The athletic scholarship dollars they award is real money (endowments or revenue) they use to pay the student's bill.

The private schools work like a car dealership. They advertise an inflated sticker price that very few actually pay but instead of the net price being negotiable they piece it out in awards/grants/scholarships whatever you want to call it. $5,000 off sticker for having a decent GPA & SAT. $4,000 because you'll play football. Just like the local Chevy dealer offers $500 for a first-time buyer, loyalty, college grad, or military. Its a discount rather than $500 someone gave them to reduce the price of the car.

Pitt Johnstown is somewhere in between. They're state-funded but not state-owned or state-controlled. My guess is that UPJ can budget the discount but obviously they don't have the price flexibility of the private schools.

Hope that helps.

Publics have ways of reducing tuition but it is much more structured and limited than a private. Scholarship athletes "pay" the tuition that fits with were they are from (in-state, out of state, metro/commuting area, etc.). It doesn't compare with the flexibility a private has but it is something that can factor into who a public makes an offer to.

[Dirtybird]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Enough info that even I understand now. Thanks everyone.

[Scrub]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Publics have ways of reducing tuition but it is much more structured and limited than a private. Scholarship athletes "pay" the tuition that fits with were they are from (in-state, out of state, metro/commuting area, etc.). It doesn't compare with the flexibility a private has but it is something that can factor into who a public makes an offer to.

But in the case of highly talented students with good test scores (oh, and who can also shoot and rebound), coaches can get a "freebie." CJ Hester, Evan French, Alex Falk, and other players like that have, I believe, qualified for the university's Scholars program. I don't know the specifics, but it's highly possible that guys like these received darn near a full ride as STUDENTS using the university's academic scholarships, so the basketball team wouldn't have to use one of their 10 scholarships (or at least not much of one--maybe just chipping in for room and board, thereby spreading a single scholarship among a variety of talented academic students) on guys like that. So, if you recruit smart kids who can also play ball--which WLU does seem to do with some regularity--your 3 "non-scholarship" players on the roster aren't necessarily walk-ons; they're guys with academic money. Imagine if you can get an Alex Falk with academic money (based on his test scores), and then STILL have 10 more scholly's to spend. That's pretty smart allocation if you can pull it off.

And none of this takes into the account the two years of FREE Dan Monteroso (given that both of his parents are employees of the university and can cash in a tuition benefit, as I understand it). Obviously, Dante Lombardi works the same way at IUP I imagine.

[Columbuseer]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Those 13 D1 scholarships is headcount, not equivalencies.

Here is a good site for scholarship info: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.

Plus Ivy League. They're the only non-scholarship D1 basketball league

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.

Kind of amazing how the service academies can recruit high caliber D-I athletes when you consider that you need very good grades and overall record with extra-circulars plus must receive an appointment to just get in the door.

I was at the Naval Academy (not as a midshipman) when David Robinson played there. The really crazy thing about him is (at the time at least) that those types of schools would not accept guys over say 6-5 or 6-6. The story is that he grew some six inches or so once there if one is to believe that or not.

But you are correct that those attending the academies do not pay tuition. They are actually paid a stipend for attending.

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[Columbuseer]

Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

Kind of amazing how the service academies can recruit high caliber D-I athletes when you consider that you need very good grades and overall record with extra-circulars plus must receive an appointment to just get in the door.

I was at the Naval Academy (not as a midshipman) when David Robinson played there. The really crazy thing about him is (at the time at least) that those types of schools would not accept guys over say 6-5 or 6-6. The story is that he grew some six inches or so once there if one is to believe that or not.

But you are correct that those attending the academies do not pay tuition. They are actually paid a stipend for attending.

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Another thing I did not know is that the service academies are very highly regarded universities in many majors.
Also they don't take screw-ups regardless of their GPA. Academy appointees have their act together.