Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

[86Catillac]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

Northwest's balance this year why I think it would be fascinating to see them play each SMSU. Southwest has a great on-ball defender in Bruggeman, and others do too like Augie with Warren, but Southwest's team defense is good enough to match up and maybe limit the others, which could force Pitts to take the game over. In no way do I think Southwest could win this matchup -- I wholely believe Justin Pitts is the best player in the country -- but I think of all the NSIC teams I've seen this year, SMSU would be the one to give them the toughest test.

(Me shilling for Southwest has me feeling a bit ill now)

Fair enough. But is this the same team that recently gave up 96 points to a sub .500 team?

[fanofnsic]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

Self-loathing, an attack on teams that earned what they got and wanting more our of a team that won a national champion...looks like our Winona fans of old are coming back!

How is that self-loathing? Augie guys are saying they had competioton in conference too when they made the run. I agree they did but it wasn't the same level as in the past. Everyone for the most part is down. Northern hasnt made a run in what 8 years? Duluth used to be at least a .500 team and could play with anyone on a given night. Wayne used to be a ***** to play at down there. Concordia and BSU had teams that could put a scare into you. Now they are all awful. The league is down.

[DapperDan]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

How is that self-loathing? Augie guys are saying they had competioton in conference too when they made the run. I agree they did but it wasn't the same level as in the past. Everyone for the most part is down. Northern hasnt made a run in what 8 years? Duluth used to be at least a .500 team and could play with anyone on a given night. Wayne used to be a ***** to play at down there. Concordia and BSU had teams that could put a scare into you. Now they are all awful. The league is down.

I am of the opinion that the increase in local DI mid-major programs has something to do with the erosion of talent in the NSIC. That is not to say that many of the same relatively good and average players don't show up but there are more opportunities for what used to be the great DII prospects to bite on the ego rush of being a DI recruit. Since the glory days of Winona (not sugarcoating; their problems go much deeper than DI competition) we've seen at least five teams I can think of offhand that were equal footing DII piers having moved up. It may not sound like a lot considering the size of basketball rosters but when there aren't many realistically attainable stars around to begin with its got to have an impact.

[simple as a $3 bill]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

I am of the opinion that the increase in local DI mid-major programs has something to do with the erosion of talent in the NSIC. That is not to say that many of the same relatively good and average players don't show up but there are more opportunities for what used to be the great DII prospects to bite on the ego rush of being a DI recruit. Since the glory days of Winona (not sugarcoating; their problems go much deeper than DI competition) we've seen at least five teams I can think of offhand that were equal footing DII piers having moved up. It may not sound like a lot considering the size of basketball rosters but when there aren't many realistically attainable stars around to begin with its got to have an impact.

The erosion of recruitable players goes back to 1985 when AAU basketball started in MN. Up until that time all those mid-tier kids went to the NCC and NCC teams were as strong as any in the country. Once AAU started and MN kids started getting looked at more on a national level, people realized that MN kids could play and they were kids that you could get into school. As those kids started filing off to low level Div I schools, the talent pool available to the Upper Midwest Div II schools started to thin out.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

I am of the opinion that the increase in local DI mid-major programs has something to do with the erosion of talent in the NSIC. That is not to say that many of the same relatively good and average players don't show up but there are more opportunities for what used to be the great DII prospects to bite on the ego rush of being a DI recruit. Since the glory days of Winona (not sugarcoating; their problems go much deeper than DI competition) we've seen at least five teams I can think of offhand that were equal footing DII piers having moved up. It may not sound like a lot considering the size of basketball rosters but when there aren't many realistically attainable stars around to begin with its got to have an impact.

The erosion of recruitable players goes back to 1985 when AAU basketball started in MN. Up until that time all those mid-tier kids went to the NCC and NCC teams were as strong as any in the country. Once AAU started and MN kids started getting looked at more on a national level, people realized that MN kids could play and they were kids that you could get into school. As those kids started filing off to low level Div I schools, the talent pool available to the Upper Midwest Div II schools started to thin out.

I agree with both of these sentiments, but DapperDan in particular. You see a perfect example of it with Logan Doyle at Northern. I remember when SDSU offered him, there was a bit of...surprise maybe?...online because many people thought he was more of a D2 kid. Kind of just an alternate version of the Carter Evans situation. If I remember correctly, Evans had a D1 offer or two but was really--as has been proven with a respectable (though injury-plagued) career at NSU--more of a D2 kid. Before SDSU/USD/NDSU/UND made the D1 jump, Doyle was the type of kid who probably would've ended up a solid player at an NCC/NSIC school for 4 years. Instead, he sat the bench at now-D1 SDSU for a handful of years and is just now having a chance to use size/skills that probably would've been perfect at the D2 level from the start.

This is why I get anxious every time I hear rumors of Mankato jumping to D1 in the near future. They're in a prime, prime pocket of the NSIC recruiting footprint, with facilities that already are envied by nearly every team in the conference and several of the low-major D1s, and they have a good-sized campus in a respectable city. Not saying they'd steal every potential NSIC "star," but even if they only signed 2-3 kids each year who would've otherwise been 1st Team All-NSIC type players at this level, that's 2-3 fewer players who could be leading a still-D2 school like Augie or St. Cloud to a Conference/National Championship. Especially if a couple of those kids would've ended up at the same NSIC school like Jansen and Schilling did.

I do agree that AAU seems to be doing more and more damage as well, but the schools making the D1 jump several years ago really put a dent in the NSIC's star power. Every one of those schools (USD/SDSU/NDSU/UND) has at least 2-3 kids that would've been key players on NSIC teams throughout their careers, and instead several of them will probably ride the bench for 2-3 years of their careers before they even get playing time, if they ever get playing time at all.

[simple as a $3 bill]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

I agree with both of these sentiments, but DapperDan in particular. You see a perfect example of it with Logan Doyle at Northern. I remember when SDSU offered him, there was a bit of...surprise maybe?...online because many people thought he was more of a D2 kid. Kind of just an alternate version of the Carter Evans situation. If I remember correctly, Evans had a D1 offer or two but was really--as has been proven with a respectable (though injury-plagued) career at NSU--more of a D2 kid. Before SDSU/USD/NDSU/UND made the D1 jump, Doyle was the type of kid who probably would've ended up a solid player at an NCC/NSIC school for 4 years. Instead, he sat the bench at now-D1 SDSU for a handful of years and is just now having a chance to use size/skills that probably would've been perfect at the D2 level from the start.

This is why I get anxious every time I hear rumors of Mankato jumping to D1 in the near future. They're in a prime, prime pocket of the NSIC recruiting footprint, with facilities that already are envied by nearly every team in the conference and several of the low-major D1s, and they have a good-sized campus in a respectable city. Not saying they'd steal every potential NSIC "star," but even if they only signed 2-3 kids each year who would've otherwise been 1st Team All-NSIC type players at this level, that's 2-3 fewer players who could be leading a still-D2 school like Augie or St. Cloud to a Conference/National Championship. Especially if a couple of those kids would've ended up at the same NSIC school like Jansen and Schilling did.

I do agree that AAU seems to be doing more and more damage as well, but the schools making the D1 jump several years ago really put a dent in the NSIC's star power. Every one of those schools (USD/SDSU/NDSU/UND) has at least 2-3 kids that would've been key players on NSIC teams throughout their careers, and instead several of them will probably ride the bench for 2-3 years of their careers before they even get playing time, if they ever get playing time at all.

Mankato recruiting kids to play all 4 years, now thats rich. Please pass me the hooka pipe when your finished with it, thats obviously some very good stuff you have in it.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

Mankato recruiting kids to play all 4 years, now thats rich. Please pass me the hooka pipe when your finished with it, thats obviously some very good stuff you have in it.

Well if MSU were D1, it would make it tougher for them to get other D1 kids since D1 to D1 transfers would lose a year of eligibility instead of playing right away like they do now going D1 to D2. Might not entirely change Margenthaler's strategy, but he probably wouldn't get the same D1 transfer talent he's able to bring in now, so he'd probably have to put a little more focus on getting those 4-year kids when and where he could.

[fanofnsic]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

This is good stuff. I think another reason for the loss of some talent is because it is easier for D1's from around the country to get a hold of these kids and watch them play. With the ability of watching games live online, to getting high light videos everything is much easier to access. I remember 10 years ago most kids were still having to send out tape via mail and couldn't send a full game online. Now these coaches from around the US can watch these kids and watch multiple games easily and quickly. You also have the access to them via Twitter, email, text, ect ect. You didn't have that 15-20 years ago when it was still call home to the main line, speak with them and if they were not around then you might not ever get in touch with them. Its a different world now.

[NSU4LIFE]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

I love all the announcements on Twitter and how they all follow thE exact same wording.

When I "announced" I changed my message line on my msn messenger...lol

[DapperDan]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

Every one of those schools (USD/SDSU/NDSU/UND) has at least 2-3 kids that would've been key players on NSIC teams throughout their careers, and instead several of them will probably ride the bench for 2-3 years of their careers before they even get playing time, if they ever get playing time at all.

UNO is another one.

[laker]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

.Of course, unlike laker and others on here, if Augie doesn't make the Regional, I hope every NSIC team gets blown out by 20-30. :)

I did pull for the Vikings throughout the Elite 8 last year. I did pull for Moorhead,St. Cloud, Southwest and even Winona after they won the regional. Of course eight years ago I was in the running for the Nobel Peace prize. I would have won if someone else hadn't bribed the judges.

Was Augie ever invited to the White House last year?

[laker]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

This is why I get anxious every time I hear rumors of Mankato jumping to D1 in the near future.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Men's Division II Top 25 Polls (1/17)

I did pull for the Vikings throughout the Elite 8 last year. I did pull for Moorhead,St. Cloud, Southwest and even Winona after they won the regional. Of course eight years ago I was in the running for the Nobel Peace prize. I would have won if someone else hadn't bribed the judges.

Was Augie ever invited to the White House last year?

Ultimately that's one of many reasons way more people like you than will ever like me.

As I've said before, I just can't get behind a rival team like that when I know 3 months after the season ends, the Vikes will probably be competing with them for key recruits and stuff. I'd prefer not to have a team like Mankato or Moorhead (both of whom compete with Augie for recruits on a consistent basis) be able to say, "Well we are coming off a National Championship and have the highest buzz and community support we've ever had, etc..."

If Augie isn't going to make it, I'd prefer it go to an MIAA or GAC school that the Vikes are way less likely to compete against consistently. Or, even better, a school that isn't even in our region.

And as far as I know, they were not invited to the White House. But they did receive a congratulatory Senate Resolution from Rounds and Thune: https://www.congress.gov/congression...rticle/S2027-2