Best Football Conferences in D2?

[S&TMinerfan]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent. The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked. Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games. You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

[Turbonium]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent. The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked. Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games. You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

I think that, much like March Madness, no matter how many teams you increase the field to there will be teams left out that think they should be in. If this happens this year feel free to say team X doesn't deserve to be in and here is why. I'm betting that team X will be about as justified as whatever team was left out. No real way around it, there will always be tough decisions and good teams being left home.

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent. The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked. Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games. You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

The committees are made up two people per conference, so while I suppose your conspiracy theory could happen, I dont think it does. Bottom line, in our region, if you finish with one D2 loss, you're going to be in this year.

[Twincitiesmav]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent. The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked. Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games. You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

[Brandon]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent. The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked. Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games. You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

No. Not necessarily, and it wouldn't necessarily be an unfair outcome. That's only looking at the resume of two teams when there are three other conferences in the region. Theoretically, there could be four undefeated teams and four one-loss teams. Why should the team in your scenario get in over a one-loss team like Grand Valley? That's especially puzzling when the "traditional power" you mentioned got destroyed by Grand Valley this year.

What if things ended like this:

Ferris State 11-0
Grand Valley 10-1
Fort Hays 11-0
Northwest Missouri 10-1
Ouachita Baptist 11-0
Southern Arkansas 10-1
Indianapolis 10-1
Missouri S&T 9-1

Would it really be unfair if MST were left out?

The GLVC is not considered to be middle of the pack in terms of strength. It's considered the weakest in SR3 and the results tend to bare that out. Last year, Indianapolis made the playoffs but lost in the first round in a close game to Harding. The year before Southwest Baptist got blown out by Colorado Mines. In 2015, CSU-Pueblo beat Indianapolis by two scores.

But instead of a hypothetical, let's look at the exact situation. MST's loss to Drake will not have an effect on their playoff participation but is actually not a good loss. SR3 playoff teams worthy of the playoffs typically beat Drake.

Indianapolis will likely finish 9-1 against D2 competition. Missouri S&T will likely finish 9-1 against D2 competition. Here is the way SR3 COULD end up, which is not as bad as you might have thought...

In no particular order...

Ferris State 11-0
Ouachita Baptist 11-0
Grand Valley 10-1
Northwest Missouri 10-1
Indianapolis 9-1
Missouri S&T 9-1
Southern Arkansas 9-2
Harding 9-2

Someone please check the accuracy of this. I had to write it in a hurry.

[Wallst]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

D2 Rankings are flawed. Perennial power schools are given the huge benefit ofthe doubt.
Seeing the PSAC ahead of the LSC, RMAC and NSIC seems flawed in that analysis.
New blood takes time to gain respect. See Tarleton this year. Undefeated and Rolled the defending champions at their place. That said, the top 2 teams in the power conferences always have a chance to go far most years.

I don't think Massey takes prior years performance into consideration. It simply analyzes stats and spits out results. This is not done by the D2 rankings on this board.

[Horror Child]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is my problem with the way Div. 2 Football decides playoff entries. I believe the team that is not a traditional power but has just recently become a good team, worthy of being in the playoffs gets punished by either prior years average records or conference affiliation(it is almost like the team has to prove it for multiple years to finally get the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is fair to that years team). Let me give you an example. Let's say a team finishes with a 9-2 record on the year. One of the losses is to a FCS opponent.

"prior years average records or conference affiliation" is not considered.

The other loss is by a TD or less to a conference team(traditional power) who is ranked.

"traditional power" and "ranked" is not considered.

Let's say besides the one loss,none of the conference or non conference games were close games.

"close" implies point differential which is not considered.

You would have a team that won every Division 2 game they played that year with the exception of one loss on a late touchdown in the 4th qtr. to a ranked opponent. To me this team deserves entry in to the playoffs, a no brainer right? I believe this exact scenario could very well play out this year and I would bet that this team does not get a playoff bid, based solely on either having a conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength or the fact that they have not been a traditional powerhouse in the past. Now there are lots of games yet to be played so we shall see how things turn out. This just seems like it could happen and would be an obvious unfair outcome. THOUGHTS ????

"conference thought to be middle of the pack in strength" is not considered.

This seems to be your perception and lack of understanding of how the playoffs selections are determined.

Your team's record, your team's in-region record, your team's opponents' records and your team's opponents' opponents' record does.

S&T is 5-2 overall, 5-1 in D2 and 3-1 in SR3.

S&T's D2 opponents are 14-25 and SR3 opponents are 8-17. How does that stack up the other teams in SR3?

[boyblue]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Here is the average ranking of the top half of each conference. For conferences with an uneven number of teams the listing uses less than half the teams (i.e. 4 of 9) and, the second, more than half (i.e. 5 of 9)

10 Mid America IAA
15 Great Lakes IAC
17 Gulf South
22 Lone Star
35 Great American
40 Great Midwest
41 Rocky Mtn AC
44 Penn St AC
49 Great Northwest
52 Northern Sun
54 Great Lakes Val
55 South Atlantic
55 Northeast-10
86 Southern IAC
99 Central IAA
103 Mountain East



10 Mid America IAA
21 Great Lakes IAC
22 Gulf South
28 Lone Star
35 Great American
46 Rocky Mtn AC
49 Penn St AC
49 Great Northwest
52 Northern Sun
54 Great Lakes Val
55 Great Midwest
58 South Atlantic
65 Northeast-10
94 Southern IAC
99 Central IAA
103 Mountain East

[Armo Wood]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

No. Not necessarily, and it wouldn't necessarily be an unfair outcome. That's only looking at the resume of two teams when there are three other conferences in the region. Theoretically, there could be four undefeated teams and four one-loss teams. Why should the team in your scenario get in over a one-loss team like Grand Valley? That's especially puzzling when the "traditional power" you mentioned got destroyed by Grand Valley this year.

What if things ended like this:

Ferris State 11-0
Grand Valley 10-1
Fort Hays 11-0
Northwest Missouri 10-1
Ouachita Baptist 11-0
Southern Arkansas 10-1
Indianapolis 10-1
Missouri S&T 9-1

Would it really be unfair if MST were left out?

The GLVC is not considered to be middle of the pack in terms of strength. It's considered the weakest in SR3 and the results tend to bare that out. Last year, Indianapolis made the playoffs but lost in the first round in a close game to Harding. The year before Southwest Baptist got blown out by Colorado Mines. In 2015, CSU-Pueblo beat Indianapolis by two scores.

But instead of a hypothetical, let's look at the exact situation. MST's loss to Drake will not have an effect on their playoff participation but is actually not a good loss. SR3 playoff teams worthy of the playoffs typically beat Drake.

Indianapolis will likely finish 9-1 against D2 competition. Missouri S&T will likely finish 9-1 against D2 competition. Here is the way SR3 COULD end up, which is not as bad as you might have thought...

In no particular order...

Ferris State 11-0
Ouachita Baptist 11-0
Grand Valley 10-1
Northwest Missouri 10-1
Indianapolis 9-1
Missouri S&T 9-1
Southern Arkansas 9-2
Harding 9-2

Someone please check the accuracy of this. I had to write it in a hurry.

1st scenario concerning GAC can't happen. SAU & OBU still have to play one another and SAU already has a loss. So, there is no way SAU can be 10-1 & OBU can be 11-0.

2nd scenario concerning GAC is realistically possible.

Also, how can Hays be undefeated in scenario 1, I thought they already had 2 losses?

Okay, that's all I got for now. Just remember, you asked for someone to be that guy.

[Brandon]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

1st scenario concerning GAC can't happen. SAU & OBU still have to play one another and SAU already has a loss. So, there is no way SAU can be 10-1 & OBU can be 11-0.

2nd scenario concerning GAC is realistically possible.

Also, how can Hays be undefeated in scenario 1, I thought they already had 2 losses?

Okay, that's all I got for now. Just remember, you asked for someone to be that guy.

I should have been more clear. First scenario was hypothetical. With Hays at 11-0 I thought that was obvious but obviously not!

Second scenario was looking at what could happen this year.

[Cohibra45]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Don't know about the others, but SAC which I have been following ever since my son played for LR is a very competitive conference. There seem to always be three or four teams which on any given Saturday can win. That to me makes for some very interesting and exciting play, which I consider what it's all about.

Just my 2 cents worth. GO BEARS!!!

BTW, my son graduated last year and is now in the NAVY!!! GO NAVY!!!

[Braves'86]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

For me I would count the teams from each conference that have made the final four over the last decade. I don't think one team like NWMSU getting there repeatedly makes a good case for a strong conference overall. If anything it says the opposite.

I had a post a few months ago listing the SR2 winners over the last 15 or so years and it was a GSC team every year with 2-3 exceptions.

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

For me I would count the teams from each conference that have made the final four over the last decade. I don't think one team like NWMSU getting there repeatedly makes a good case for a strong conference overall. If anything it says the opposite.

I had a post a few months ago listing the SR2 winners over the last 15 or so years and it was a GSC team every year with 2-3 exceptions.

[Armo Wood]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

I should have been more clear. First scenario was hypothetical. With Hays at 11-0 I thought that was obvious but obviously not!

Second scenario was looking at what could happen this year.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't post while eating dinner. So, I guess I was that guy two times over.:smile-big:

[boyblue]

Re: Best Football Conferences in D2?

Very fair assessment, I wish we could get some more competitive ooc games or that region strength could be a part of the grouping process. I'm a firm believer in "iron sharpens iron". It is no accident that teams in strong conferences go deeper in the playoffs.