FCS schools that should probably be in D2

[ctrabs74]

Very generally speaking, the hierarchy goes like this:

Power 5 FBS is flagship state universities (non-directional) and flagship mainline Christian schools (Baylor, Wake, Notre Dame, BC, etc.)
Non Power 5 FBS is second tier, large, directional state universities that are not flagship along with some large religious schools (Liberty, BYU, TCU, SMU, etc.)
FCS is larger state universities and secondary mainline Christian schools (Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Presbyterian, etc.)
D2 is mostly smaller state universities, with secondary mainline Christian and other private schools
D3 is mostly small, private schools
NAIA is a mix of quite small public and private schools

There are exceptions to any rule. There are quite large state universities in D2 (Grand Valley), and quite small private universities in FBS (Rice).

TCU is actually a member of the Big 12 (though, after watching them struggle to hang 39 on Arkansas-Pine Bluff, even after a second half QB change, that's debatable).

Also, don't forget about the non-football D1 schools out there (Wichita State, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc.).

[IronOre]

I meant overall school budget/endowment.

[Herb Street]

I don't think the college's size or budget really has that much to do with it. For example, CWU has similar enrollment, endowments and a much better campus than EWU, but EWU has a larger athletics budget and is in FCS.

[IronOre]

Very generally speaking, the hierarchy goes like this:

Power 5 FBS is flagship state universities (non-directional) and flagship mainline Christian schools (Baylor, Wake, Notre Dame, BC, etc.)
Non Power 5 FBS is second tier, large, directional state universities that are not flagship along with some large religious schools (Liberty, BYU, TCU, SMU, etc.)
FCS is larger state universities and secondary mainline Christian schools (Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Presbyterian, etc.)
D2 is mostly smaller state universities, with secondary mainline Christian and other private schools
D3 is mostly small, private schools
NAIA is a mix of quite small public and private schools

There are exceptions to any rule. There are quite large state universities in D2 (Grand Valley), and quite small private universities in FBS (Rice).

With public schools, size tends to dictate the division, though not always. With private schools, most are either D1 or D3. Most fit comfortably in D3 for several reasons:

1. A number of the privates have a ton of academic panache, and students are very willing to attend there without an athletic scholarship. Many athletically-talented kids choose the private school for the academic prestige and the degree that follows, and while the athletics piece is nice, but it is purely secondary. MIT, Trinity, Amherst, Johns-Hopkins, Emory, etc.

2. The SAT/ACT entrance exam requirements of many of the privates means most students are getting substantial academic scholarship money anyway. The average college athlete isn't going to sniff the front gate of MIT, and MIT isn't in any mood to bend the rules for someone who can't spell cat. Most P5 schools will substantially compromise their standard admissions standards to get a star athlete on the field.

The idea that D3 schools are low budget is a false one, too. In fact, some of those schools are among the most flu$h in the nation. MIT has an endowment of over $20 billion. Johns-Hopkins almost $4 billion, Emory $7 billion, Amherst $2 billion, etc. In terms of dollars, a lot of the D3 schools could buy and sell a D1 school without a thought.

I don't think the college's size or budget really has that much to do with it. For example, CWU has similar enrollment, endowments and a much better campus than EWU, but EWU has a larger athletics budget and is in FCS.

[Herb Street]

Very generally speaking, the hierarchy goes like this:

Power 5 FBS is flagship state universities (non-directional) and flagship mainline Christian schools (Baylor, Wake, Notre Dame, BC, etc.)
Non Power 5 FBS is second tier, large, directional state universities that are not flagship along with some large religious schools (Liberty, BYU, TCU, SMU, etc.)
FCS is larger state universities and secondary mainline Christian schools (Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Presbyterian, etc.)
D2 is mostly smaller state universities, with secondary mainline Christian and other private schools
D3 is mostly small, private schools
NAIA is a mix of quite small public and private schools

There are exceptions to any rule. There are quite large state universities in D2 (Grand Valley), and quite small private universities in FBS (Rice).

With public schools, size tends to dictate the division, though not always. With private schools, most are either D1 or D3. Most fit comfortably in D3 for several reasons:

1. A number of the privates have a ton of academic panache, and students are very willing to attend there without an athletic scholarship. Many athletically-talented kids choose the private school for the academic prestige and the degree that follows, and while the athletics piece is nice, but it is purely secondary. MIT, Trinity, Amherst, Johns-Hopkins, Emory, etc.

2. The SAT/ACT entrance exam requirements of many of the privates means most students are getting substantial academic scholarship money anyway. The average college athlete isn't going to sniff the front gate of MIT, and MIT isn't in any mood to bend the rules for someone who can't spell cat. Most P5 schools will substantially compromise their standard admissions standards to get a star athlete on the field.

The idea that D3 schools are low budget is a false one, too. In fact, some of those schools are among the most flu$h in the nation. MIT has an endowment of over $20 billion. Johns-Hopkins almost $4 billion, Emory $7 billion, Amherst $2 billion, etc. In terms of dollars, a lot of the D3 schools could buy and sell a D1 school without a thought.

[laker]

I've had people get irate when I have made that statement in the past. Usually, it's MIAA, LSC and GAC people.

Morningside is as pleased as punch that they left the NCC for NAIA. Talking to their fans/coaches they have no desire to replace Augie in the NSIC.

[OPSUALUM77&81]

Many schools lack the resources to play D2. The Oklahoma schools, along with others around the country, are losing the arms race with respect to facilities and lack the financial resources to compete in D2. They are getting further and further behind. Oklahoma's economy has taken a big hit due to low energy prices. Although the economy has gotten better, some say there are signs that the economy is slipping again. Lower tax revenues equal less money for both common ed and higher ed. D3 makes no sense for schools in states such as Oklahoma and Kansas as there aren't many D3 schools in this footprint and the travel costs would eat them up going D3. Former NAIA powerhouses such as Northwestern Oklahoma State University will never make the D2 football playoffs due to the lack of resources. Western New Mexico has no sense being D2 as they also lack the resources. They are on an island by themselves with respect to closeness to other schools. However, there is growth in Arizona with NAIA schools. They will be lucky to win a couple of LSC games per year. I didn't particularly like OPSU's move down to NAIA but we can't compete in D2. It was a very smart move. Our new president has raised significant money that he has put into athletic facility improvements along with other campus improvements. People are excited and attendance at games has increased. Wins will put people in the seats. We are winning and most people don't care that it is NAIA.

[Brandon]

Would you consider NAIA to kind of be sandwiched between D2 and D3 in terms of athletic quality? What are NAIA scholarship standards compared to D2? What encourages schools to identify with NAIA rather than NCAA?

Not really. In terms of the level of play - probably. But the cultures are very different. The NAIA model is mostly about throwing a little money at multiple things and hoping to increase enrollment.

There is more administration and oversight in the NCAA and better record keeping.

[Brandon]

I've had people get irate when I have made that statement in the past. Usually, it's MIAA, LSC and GAC people.

Well it doesn't make sense for most of the schools in those leagues.

[DapperDan]

Why? There's nothing wrong with the NAIA for schools that belong there.

Would you consider NAIA to kind of be sandwiched between D2 and D3 in terms of athletic quality? What are NAIA scholarship standards compared to D2? What encourages schools to identify with NAIA rather than NCAA?

[OPSUALUM77&81]

Why? There's nothing wrong with the NAIA for schools that belong there.

I've had people get irate when I have made that statement in the past. Usually, it's MIAA, LSC and GAC people.

[Brandon]

Or NAIA. That'll tick some of you off.

Why? There's nothing wrong with the NAIA for schools that belong there.

[OPSUALUM77&81]

I can further make the case that most D2 schools should be D3. So there's that.

Or NAIA. That'll tick some of you off.

[CALUPA69]

I can further make the case that most D2 schools should be D3. So there's that.

Certainly many if not most.

[Herb Street]

I can further make the case that most D2 schools should be D3. So there's that.