PO Seeding - We can do better

[boyblue]

Next week, the #1 seed in SR2 will lose in the second round (their first game) for the second year in a row, last year by 17, this year is looking even worse. This being the case, I believe an argument can be made that, the current weight on each data point, is producing a bad outcome. The fix I believe, is that quality of wins has to be given more weight.

Another point, because of the geography of D2 we have to accept that silos are a necessary evil and therefore critical data cannot be collected for silo teams. So rather than project, I suggest we break the cardinal rule that only data from the current season can be considered, and use data from the previous year or an average over a number of years, to get a more accurate estimation of silo conference strength and thus silo team data. We would then be able to get more realistic regional rankings.

With each playoff team having a more accurate measure, a limit should be established as to how much variance in regional strength will be allowed before an unseeded team must be moved to balance super region strength. The goal here is not to have perfect balance across all four regions but, when there is gross imbalance, budget cannot be the primary consideration, an unseeded team or two should be moved.

I do realize that budget is king and I accept that there are limitations that prevent perfection. If there are exceptions, I maintain that gross regional imbalance should be added to the list of exceptions.

[Goods]

Why has no one commented on this?!?!?!? Your second paragraph is an interesting idea. I figured you'd get some either huge support or major pushback.

[Predatory Primates]

Silos are not necessary. I say we go the other way. Ban silos, add the week zero game slot,, and make everyone play one ooc game minimum.

[bigmrg74]

Silos are not necessary. I say we go the other way. Ban silos, add the week zero game slot,, and make everyone play one ooc game minimum.

And that they can't all be from the same conference either. would be nice to get more games from different locations.

[boyblue]

Why has no one commented on this?!?!?!? Your second paragraph is an interesting idea. I figured you'd get some either huge support or major pushback.

If they're anything like me after a loss, I disengage, so half the forum has probably gone for the season. Besides , we beat this issue up every year and we've already had at least one long thread this year, everyone's probably thinking it's a rehash.

[boyblue]

Silos are not necessary. I say we go the other way. Ban silos, add the week zero game slot,, and make everyone play one ooc game minimum.

One game even if it's from the same conference would give a give us exponentially more data. I don't know if silos can be broken up but, if so, I wonder what the financial impact would be.

[Goods]

For CWU, it would be great to have an RMAC game annually, as that's the closest conference to fly to, ironically closer than its own LSC conference to fly to. MIAA and NSIC would be great as well.

[Bearhof]

LR has tried to do some home and home games with CIAA and we go there and then they back out of coming here. Siac game we had with Fort Valley was a nightmare and crazy stuff going on with the officiating. Had we not been a much better team we would’ve lost. They could only call so many touchdowns back and holding calls. One time one of their players grabbed the referee after a penalty was called. There sideline was really out of control. This was 2019 I think and Kyle Duggar was playing in front of his local family. Anyway they canceled coming to LR the next year. We had the same problem with WSSU recently canceling on us. Seems like d2 really needs a tv deal worth enough money for teams to afford travel expenses. Would love to see some big games between regions during the regular season.

[KleShreen]

Nothing like this will ever stop, because it requires that the NCAA inherently admits that some conferences are weaker than others, which they will never, ever do.

The NCAA will never come out and say "Sorry, the SIAC champion just historically isn't as good as the GSC or SAC champion, we can't make the SIAC champion a #1 seed" even though we all know that is correct. They can't say that.

So this will never change. A win over an 8-2 CIAA team is worth the same as a win over an 8-2 GSC team, and always will be.

[boyblue]

Nothing like this will ever stop, because it requires that the NCAA inherently admits that some conferences are weaker than others, which they will never, ever do.

The NCAA will never come out and say "Sorry, the SIAC champion just historically isn't as good as the GSC or SAC champion, we can't make the SIAC champion a #1 seed" even though we all know that is correct. They can't say that.

So this will never change. A win over an 8-2 CIAA team is worth the same as a win over an 8-2 GSC team, and always will be.

I presume that the people that run D2 love it as much as we do, and I understand that their decisions are framed by a budget of which we take no account. So, when we propose things that would clearly not meet budgetary requirements, we give them an excuse to ignore us. Before we can be effective advocates we have to put ourselves in their shoes, think from their perspective.

Keeping the budget in mind what are some ideas that would make for more fair PO brackets?

1. How about the option to move a team after round 1 if flight can be avoided
2. What about the option to reseed after each round or at least before regional finals
3. Why not expand the field to 32 teams
   1. No team gets a bi
   2. Four games at two equidistant D2 schools
   3. Two games played at each site
4. How about giving OC wins a small premium, say 1.1 or as much as 1.25
5. How about counting FCS games and possibly giving wins a premium same as OC wins

[FSUBulldog27]

Tiffin and Benedict knocked out as the no#1 seeds. Neither should have been 1 seed. I guess conference strength means nothing - just go 11-0 playing bad teams and get a 1 seed. The two #1 seeds people commented on got EXPOSED today- 2nd year in a row for Benedict - NCAA needs to fix this just a joke.

[boyblue]

Tiffin and Benedict knocked out as the no#1 seeds. Neither should have been 1 seed. I guess conference strength means nothing - just go 11-0 playing bad teams and get a 1 seed. The two #1 seeds people commented on got EXPOSED today- 2nd year in a row for Benedict - NCAA needs to fix this just a joke.

Both by the same margin, maybe the football gods are trying to speak. I didn't watch the full game but Benedict was more competitive than I thought. Truth is though, I'm happy VSU played two solid teams and have more which will have us as ready as possible. If we lose after that, it's because the other team is better.

[FSUBulldog27]

Both by the same margin, maybe the football gods are trying to speak. I didn't watch the full game but Benedict was more competitive than I thought. Truth is though, I'm happy VSU played two solid teams and have more which will have us as ready as possible. If we lose after that, it's because the other team is better.

I am just going to use the D2 page NATIONAL rankings as an example - If Grand Valley wins against Harding they would have beaten the no#3 team (Ferris), no#5 team (Pitt State) and no#4 team (Harding) just to get out of the region. They could get matched up with Mines at some point #1 team - In what sport that has rankings does a No#2 in country have to play the 3, 5 and 4 to get out of region. NCAA is lazy in allowing this to happen and not move teams to other regions to balance out the tournament. Obviously, they don't care - this has been going on for last few years and just keep it the same. In reality GV should have had Indy the 1st game and not Ferris - need to start pressing our conference commissioners and maybe they will push the NCAA.

[boyblue]

I am just going to use the D2 page NATIONAL rankings as an example - If Grand Valley wins against Harding they would have beaten the no#3 team (Ferris), no#5 team (Pitt State) and no#4 team (Harding) just to get out of the region. They could get matched up with Mines at some point #1 team - In what sport that has rankings does a No#2 in country have to play the 3, 5 and 4 to get out of region. NCAA is lazy in allowing this to happen and not move teams to other regions to balance out the tournament. Obviously, they don't care - this has been going on for last few years and just keep it the same. In reality GV should have had Indy the 1st game and not Ferris - need to start pressing our conference commissioners and maybe they will push the NCAA.

I get your point but the national ranking is not a playoff metric and for good reason. Any pole that has the SIAC champ ahead of the GSC co-champs cannot be trusted. I understand your frustration we're in a similar situation, I just see it differently. After playing that series of tough opponents GV should be an improved team, a team ready to dominate teams that have travelled a softer path. It may be unfair to Ferris this year but that same gauntlet is what enabled you to have those great NC runs.

[KleShreen]

I get your point but the national ranking is not a playoff metric and for good reason. Any pole that has the SIAC champ ahead of the GSC co-champs cannot be trusted. I understand your frustration we're in a similar situation, I just see it differently. After playing that series of tough opponents GV should be an improved team, a team ready to dominate teams that have travelled a softer path. It may be unfair to Ferris this year but that same gauntlet is what enabled you to have those great NC runs.

But the "playoff metric" had the SIAC champ as the #1 seed in the region lol.

Without a doubt, the D2Football.com poll is the most reliable and accurate ranking system this division has, and it isn't even close. The AFCA poll is garbage because it is voted on by a bunch of coaches and SID's who have never even watched a game outside of their own conference, let alone outside their own region. And the NCAA playoff metric is garbage because they will never admit to some conferences being more competitive than others.