Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

[cneagle99]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I think that all D2 sanctioned sports should count, but that the value afforded to each sport should be weighted based on:

1. The number of schools that sponsor the sport
2. The number of student athletes that participate in the sport
3. The number of conferences that sponsor the sport

I don't think potential student athletes place any weight on a potential school's Directors Cup standings, but where the school ranks on the sport they are wanting to play (ie Football) may matter.

However, I think we want to encourage schools to add sports as opposed to reduce sports sponsorship. Therefore, I would support a more inclusive as opposed to restrictive view of what sports to consider for the standings.

[ctrabs74]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I too find it difficult to believe that these "Directors Cup" rankings are driving kids to or from particular sports or universities. I'd like to meet the star field hockey recruit who says, "I'm going to Millersville because I think they deserve to be a top 50 school in the Learfield Directors Cup standings...and I'm just the woman to get them there!!!!!"

That's a bit of a stretch, even in a strong field hockey state like Pennsylvania.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Just a realization that football has a disproportionate # of participants, costs a disproportionate amount of money to support, garners a disproportionate amount of attention, and overall has a disproportionate amount of impact on a campus.

Other than football, I keep it purely mathematical.

I feel the same way. But the point of my question was that there are going to be people who say just that...and perhaps quite a few of them will be from the basketball community who will go from top dog, to co-top dog. I would also imagine that there would be some from the women's sports camp who would question why only a men's sport was given about double it's "real" number of points while no women's sport was given the same.

Seems like every solution is right...AND...wrong at the same time!

I do kind of like your points based on # of schools participating (minus the football bonus). Each school would get a raw score for their total points and then divide by the number of sports that they participate in. Then rank and stack.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Why? I mean, WE like football but is it fair to the 14 sports that has more schools participating in them than football to give football "extra" unearned points??

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I think I said what BlueBlood said, only not nearly as well.

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Why? I mean, WE like football but is it fair to the 14 sports that has more schools participating in them than football to give football "extra" unearned points??

I think it is based upon the impact of success and some other factors.

Before others might take offense to anything I say, hear me out. My nephew plays 9U baseball. His team is my favorite team. I want them to win more than any other team I know. I'd let the St. Louis Cardinals go winless so my nephew's baseball team could win all their games. But only 20 spectators, all relatives, are in the stands when the boys play. It doesn't mean my passion for him or his team is less because it doesn't have the reach of the NFL. Heck, I spend a vast amount of time covering Division II Football, which people often confuse with the FCS and D3. It doesn't mean my passion is less because the reach isn't as vast. So I understand the passion for other sports.

I actually think football deserves the most points, but I totally understand the logic for giving it the same as men's basketball. It's the hardest sport. It's an expensive sport. It's the sport that garners the most attention. The basketball championship is on CBS. The football championship is on ESPN. Those are obviously the marquee sports in D2 and should be treated as such. I think it's either intellectually dishonest or political correctness run amok to pretend that shooting sports be treated the same as football.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Why? I mean, WE like football but is it fair to the 14 sports that has more schools participating in them than football to give football "extra" unearned points??

Just a realization that football has a disproportionate # of participants, costs a disproportionate amount of money to support, garners a disproportionate amount of attention, and overall has a disproportionate amount of impact on a campus.

Other than football, I keep it purely mathematical.

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Great plan as well.

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

True, because as we both agree, it's already a popular sport.


Individuals don't participate in a sport due to it being considered in the director's cup, but school sponsorship probably does. But if certain sports shouldn't be considered, as you've suggested, you're essentially saying that those sports don't matter as much as others do, which is what many say about Division II as a whole.

A school cannot count every sport it sponsors as it is now if they sponsor more than 15 sports.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

and only award half the points for the two track seasons.

Why? I mean, WE like football but is it fair to the 14 sports that has more schools participating in them than football to give football "extra" unearned points??

[BlueBlood]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I looked up Division II sport sponsorship:

Women's:

319 - Basketball
307 - Cross Country
306 - Volleyball
296 - Softball
268 - Soccer
246 - Track Outdoor
226 - Tennis
195 - Track Indoor
192 - Golf
107 - Lacrosse
104 - Swimming

Men's:

318 - Basketball
280 - Cross Country
270 - Baseball
233 - Golf
217 - Soccer
215 - Track Outdoor
173 - Track Indoor
172 - Football
169 - Tennis
75 - Swimming
67 - Lacrosse

[Horror Child]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

If you eliminated football from the director's cup, kids won't suddenly stop playing it and schools wouldn't suddenly stop sponsoring it.

True, because as we both agree, it's already a popular sport.

I don't think not including a sport in the director's cup will have one bit of influence on its participation. Your son's passion for swimming had nothing to do with his desire to score points in the director's cup. Your daughter's passion for field hockey had nothing to do with the director's cup. I'm quite sure they were both motivated, competitive people who fell in love with a sport and played it to the best of their ability.

Individuals don't participate in a sport due to it being considered in the director's cup, but school sponsorship probably does. But if certain sports shouldn't be considered, as you've suggested, you're essentially saying that those sports don't matter as much as others do, which is what many say about Division II as a whole.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

That's a solid plan, too. I was simply trying to include the most participated sports (minus football).

Yea...Understood. No right solution to this...Seems like every system has it's strengths and flaws. That's why I really don't put much stock in them. But hey...It's the off season and we've talked the MEC/Shepherd/PSAC/Frostburg/GMAC/AB/D&E "issues" to death...Might as well talk about systems for finding the "Best DII sports universities in the nation!!"

I too find it difficult to believe that these "Directors Cup" rankings are driving kids to or from particular sports or universities. I'd like to meet the star field hockey recruit who says, "I'm going to Millersville because I think they deserve to be a top 50 school in the Learfield Directors Cup standings...and I'm just the woman to get them there!!!!!"

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

The hard thing about is if you limit it to the popular sports or try to assign a relative value that assigns points based on participation, you run the risk of upsetting the parents and true believers of any number of "boutique" sports. That's the problem with these "rankings." Each is an attempt to reach a compromise between several sometimes wildly divergent points of view. That's part of the reason I don't really care about these sorts of "rankings" and get a good chuckle when people quote them as PROOF of the greatness of their school.

But for the sake of argument, here's my list of sports that should be part of a mythical ranking system:

Men's Basketball
Men's Football
Men's Baseball
Men's Soccer
Men's Outdoor and Indoor Track and Field (combined)
Women's Basketball
Women's Volleyball
Women's Softball
Women's Soccer
Women's Outdoor and Indoor Track and Field (Combined)

100 points for the team winner of each sport, 90 for the runner up, 80 for each losing semifinalist, 70 for each losing Quarterfinalist, each school that doesn't make the playoff field but has an overall DII W/L winning % at or above .600 get's 25 points. Total all the points a school gets at the end of the year and divide by 10. Stack them up top to bottom, declare the school with the top score the "winner," go home and enjoy the rest of your summer!

That's a solid plan, too. I was simply trying to include the most participated sports (minus football).

[Brandon]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

And not counting "less popular" sports will drive future participation in them?

These are just odd comments coming from someone who advocates for Division II football. I mean, it's Division II, why should they even have a playoff or championship? :disapointed:

I don't think not including a sport in the director's cup will have one bit of influence on its participation. Your son's passion for swimming had nothing to do with his desire to score points in the director's cup. Your daughter's passion for field hockey had nothing to do with the director's cup. I'm quite sure they were both motivated, competitive people who fell in love with a sport and played it to the best of their ability.

If you eliminated football from the director's cup, kids won't suddenly stop playing it and schools wouldn't suddenly stop sponsoring it.