Frostburg is in

[boatcapt]

Re: Frostburg is in

So now that the MEC is in Maryland, it's time to look at the enrolement figures for MD public colleges and universities. The MD public system includes a couple of larger "magnet" type schools (UM-College Park and UM-University College). For the sake of comparison, I've left them out of the comparison to sort of level the playing field between the PASSHE and WV "Regional" Universities. MD has nine schools that fit roughly into the "Regional" state school classification, Bowie, Coppin, Frostburg, Salisbury, Towson, Univ Baltimore, UM-Baltimore, UM-Baltimore County and UM-Eastern Shore. Enrolment changes for the five years from 2012 to 2017 are:

Bowie State +19%
Towson State +4%
UM-Baltimore +4%
UM- Baltimore County +1%
Frostburg State +.5%
Salisbury State -3%
Univ of Baltimore -8%
Coppin State -14%
UM-Eastern Shore -19%

Fall 2017 enrolment stacks up:

Towson 19,596
UM-Balt Co 11,234
Salisbury 7,782
UM-Balt 5,774
Bowie 5,187
Frostburg 4,725
UB 2,949
UM-Eastern Shore 2,861
Coppin 2,507

Note: The above includes undergraduate only.

[boatcapt]

Re: Frostburg is in

Interesting passage from the University System of Maryland (USM) policy on reports of intercollegiate athletics:

"To the extent allowable under NCAA regulations, institutions may agree to waive the difference between non-resident and resident tuition rates for student-athletes without charge or impact on the intercollegiate athletics program operating budget or the assessment of whether the program is operated on a self-supporting basis."

Seems to imply that USM schools like Frostburg can offer resident (in-state) tuition to out of state players.

[CelticCoach]

Re: Frostburg is in

Frostburg State ranked #8 D3Football.com preseason poll. Program is rolling and could make immediate impact in the MEC.

[CALUPA69]

Re: Frostburg is in

Frostburg State ranked #8 D3Football.com preseason poll. Program is rolling and could make immediate impact in the MEC.

By that thinking, GVSU ranked #5 in Street &Smith, could move up to the FSC in say the Missouri Valley Conference and "make an immediate impact". That scenario actually has some credibility but the LAKERS would still need some time before they were competitive with the likes of NDSU, SIU and ISU. FSU will need several seasons before they're near the top of the MEC unless I've been greatly misinformed about the strength of the conference FB programs.

[UFOILERFAN]

Re: Frostburg is in

By that thinking, GVSU ranked #5 in Street &Smith, could move up to the FSC in say the Missouri Valley Conference and "make an immediate impact". That scenario actually has some credibility but the LAKERS would still need some time before they were competitive with the likes of NDSU, SIU and ISU. FSU will need several seasons before they're near the top of the MEC unless I've been greatly misinformed about the strength of the conference FB programs.

You heard it here first, Grand Valley is moving up!!! :laugh::tongue::wink:

[CALUPA69]

Re: Frostburg is in

You heard it here first, Grand Valley is moving up!!! :laugh::tongue::wink:

YOU WISH !!!

[ShoNuff]

Re: Frostburg is in

By that thinking, GVSU ranked #5 in Street &Smith, could move up to the FSC in say the Missouri Valley Conference and "make an immediate impact". That scenario actually has some credibility but the LAKERS would still need some time before they were competitive with the likes of NDSU, SIU and ISU. FSU will need several seasons before they're near the top of the MEC unless I've been greatly misinformed about the strength of the conference FB programs.

Even as a Maryland resident I have to agree with you CALUPA69. I am REALLY pulling for FSU, but unless they receive a ton of FBS/FCS transfers in the next couple of years it will take a while before they are making an impact in the MEC. People have to remember, your average D-III roster are filled with players that were not big enough or good enough to be recruited by scholarship programs. Will take some time to turn over this roster.

[boatcapt]

Re: Frostburg is in

By that thinking, GVSU ranked #5 in Street &Smith, could move up to the FSC in say the Missouri Valley Conference and "make an immediate impact". That scenario actually has some credibility but the LAKERS would still need some time before they were competitive with the likes of NDSU, SIU and ISU. FSU will need several seasons before they're near the top of the MEC unless I've been greatly misinformed about the strength of the conference FB programs.

All the PSAC folks have said that the MEC is a "one team" football conference so why not?

I think the delta between a D3 and DII is a lot less than a DII and FCS and that is primarily related to schollys. Big difference between 36 and 63. The 63 schollys can be divided among a maximum of 85 players. Divided evenly, that would be approx. 75% scholly for all 85 players. An FCS can also give full schollys every player on their two deep roster with 19 "extra" schollys sprinkle around the 41 other top 85 players. For comparison, a DII's 36 max schollys divided among the top 85 players would be a 42% each or full schollys to their 22 #1's and 14 to spread around other 63 on an 85 player roster.

Three years is a long time and much can change over Frostburg's transition period to DII, but baring an unforeseen calamity in the program, I think they can be very good quickly. Not saying they will go 11-0 in 2020 or even 2023, but I think they have a pretty good shot at 8-3 territory by the time they are full DII members...Couple of good bounces and who knows.

I wonder what the history of a top 10 D3 football team transitioning to DII is? Wonder what the history of a Top 10 NAIA program stepping up to DII is? Can't imagine there are many examples.

[Ram Tough]

Re: Frostburg is in

Sioux Falls has done well after transitioning from NAIA. I think it would be much harder to transition from D3.

[CALUPA69]

Re: Frostburg is in

All the PSAC folks have said that the MEC is a "one team" football conference so why not?

I think the delta between a D3 and DII is a lot less than a DII and FCS and that is primarily related to schollys. Big difference between 36 and 63. The 63 schollys can be divided among a maximum of 85 players. Divided evenly, that would be approx. 75% scholly for all 85 players. An FCS can also give full schollys every player on their two deep roster with 19 "extra" schollys sprinkle around the 41 other top 85 players. For comparison, a DII's 36 max schollys divided among the top 85 players would be a 42% each or full schollys to their 22 #1's and 14 to spread around other 63 on an 85 player roster.

Three years is a long time and much can change over Frostburg's transition period to DII, but baring an unforeseen calamity in the program, I think they can be very good quickly. Not saying they will go 11-0 in 2020 or even 2023, but I think they have a pretty good shot at 8-3 territory by the time they are full DII members...Couple of good bounces and who knows.

I wonder what the history of a top 10 D3 football team transitioning to DII is? Wonder what the history of a Top 10 NAIA program stepping up to DII is? Can't imagine there are many examples.

Several points to address.
This PSAC person has never described the MEC/WVIAC as a one team league. Currently their top dog is SU, but in the 10 + years I've been on this MB several teams have been on top and fallen back.
Don't really see the major difference in transitioning from zero schollies(D3) to 36(D2) versus 36(D2) to 65(FCS). If the program is well structured, a few years should be sufficient to become competitive if not dominant. As I said a school as large and well organized as GVSU would likely move up quickly. I'll take a wait and see attitude with FSU.
Most D3 schools are there because of a philosophical viewpoint concerning the college mission. They see athletics as an extra-curricular activity and not significantly better or worse than the debate team or glee club. I don't recall a highly successful D3 program moving up, but I'm sure I'm forgetting several.

[boatcapt]

Re: Frostburg is in

Several points to address.
This PSAC person has never described the MEC/WVIAC as a one team league. Currently their top dog is SU, but in the 10 + years I've been on this MB several teams have been on top and fallen back.
Don't really see the major difference in transitioning from zero schollies(D3) to 36(D2) versus 36(D2) to 65(FCS). If the program is well structured, a few years should be sufficient to become competitive if not dominant. As I said a school as large and well organized as GVSU would likely move up quickly. I'll take a wait and see attitude with FSU.
Most D3 schools are there because of a philosophical viewpoint concerning the college mission. They see athletics as an extra-curricular activity and not significantly better or worse than the debate team or glee club. I don't recall a highly successful D3 program moving up, but I'm sure I'm forgetting several.

I think teams in the top tier of the next lower classification can be quite competitive with the middle/lower level of the next higher tier. Right now, Frostburg is in the upper tier of D3 so I think they will be immediately competitive. The ultimate question on how quickly (or if) they become competitive for a MEC/SR1/NC title is how well the coaching staff learns how to recruit scholarship worthy players. They have three years to "figure it out" which is a pretty long time.

While not a direct comparison by any means, this could resemble App State moving from FCS to FBS...Playoff caliber FCS team that quickly became a 10+ win bowl team at the FBS level. Of course it could look like Winston Salem's aborted attempt to move to FCS from DII were they went 1-10 in their last transition year before they decided to stay DII. Or perhaps Seton Hill who started their football program when they transitioned from NAIA to DII (ALMOST like going from no scholly D3 to DII...SORT of!!). Struggled early but went 10-3 in their third year, claimed a share of the WVIAC title and a playoff berth before cratering. I kind of think it will be somewhere in the middle but more shading to the App State example.