At last it's over!

[Columbuseer]

Re: At last it's over!

The special teams angle is interesting.

A coach in the PSAC told me he closes his eyes on every punt -- when his team is punting and returning. There's just so much that can go wrong.

The majority of 'good returns' always seem to get a flag on the field. You risk the botched catch/fumble -- huge momentum reverse. You risk your player getting blown up/injured. Punt return averages are typically very minimal for the risk. Other players on the return team tend to get injured a lot due to the chaos that ensues -- special teams are full of the 'LIT AF' types all trying to make a highlight.

A positive to this theory is most punters at the D2 level aren't really that good. For every punt they bomb several others get shanked. With nobody back it adds a little more pressure to their already fragile mindset. The more they rush the punt often times the more they kick it 45 degrees out of bounds.



There's a high school in Pittsburgh -- a powerhouse program -- Clairton ... they never punt. You can argue the risk in the snap. The punters aren't that good so the net is weak anyway.


Obviously there's a different side to these theories but it is an interesting concept.

You have summarized the basic rationale for not punting. i initially struggled with the idea of not punting on 4th and 7 from your own 10 yard line.

They also said that when you punt from deep in your own territory the opponent gets an average of 3 or 4 points due to short field. Better to try to keep possession by going for it on 4th down. Kelly has given talks at MIT and coaches clinics if folks want to understand the risk/reward discussion.

Btw Pulaski academy won second round game against McClellan 58-7. Mercy rule in effect for much of second half. Surprising because McClellan met them in finals 2 of last 3 years.

[Layton]

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

At this point, I just don't know. Only consistent thing I've heard from multiple people in the know is the social media use, the failure to contact players, the failure to consider recruits referred to them by reputable sources and the failure to develop relationships with any new HC's. What I've heard, and this is from a couple of years ago so it may have changed, is that they don't actively recruit Florida and California (i.e. send coaches to those states to recruit or visit prospects). What they get are a lot of players from those two places that contact them and they are evaluated against other players. As the story went, they gave scholarships to the best players in each position group without regard to were they were from. I generally agree with the philosophy of giving schollys to the best available players. That said, if two players grade out the same and one is local and one is from Florida, you offer the local player first.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: At last it's over!

At this point, I just don't know. Only consistent thing I've heard from multiple people in the know is the social media use, the failure to contact players, the failure to consider recruits referred to them by reputable sources and the failure to develop relationships with any new HC's. What I've heard, and this is from a couple of years ago so it may have changed, is that they don't actively recruit Florida and California (i.e. send coaches to those states to recruit or visit prospects). What they get are a lot of players from those two places that contact them and they are evaluated against other players. As the story went, they gave scholarships to the best players in each position group without regard to were they were from. I generally agree with the philosophy of giving schollys to the best available players. That said, if two players grade out the same and one is local and one is from Florida, you offer the local player first.

Are they bringing the kids to campus first or are they seeing it on the day they arrive? What is the retention rate for these CA and FLA players? How the overall program retention?

[Layton]

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

Are they bringing the kids to campus first or are they seeing it on the day they arrive? What is the retention rate for these CA and FLA players? How the overall program retention?

They are bring players to campus but even there, they don't appear to be doing it like higher performing programs. Anecdotal, but I've talked to a couple of HC's for HS programs that have taken players up to WLU for unofficial visits and they get NOTHING from WLU...not even a player to meet and talk with the prospects and give them a campus tour. The coaches contrasted that with unofficial visits they had made to other MEC programs were they met with coaches, had personal tours of the facilities, meetings with seniors and freshmen who were on the team. etc...basically the coaches treated them like VIP's and made them feel like to a player, they REALLY wanted them.

For the out of staters, I don't know. I kind of get the feeling that often the first day they set foot on campus is the first day of camp.

I haven't really evaluated the retention rate for out of state players as compared to local players but my sense is that it isn't dramatically different. Once you get beyond "driving distance" I don't think it matters weather a player is from North Carolina or FL/CA from a "homesick/left the team" standpoint.

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

Not many coaches on it

That's what I don't understand. Our coaches have to see what other coaches at more successful programs are doing on social media yet, they seem to refuse to take even small steps to develop a meaningful presence. Obviously WLU is not Ohio State and they don't have the budget to have a coordinated social media campaign, but they seem unwilling (or unable) to even try. I mean, how hard is it to send out a tweet every day on how GREAT WLU is and how GREAT a particular HS or prized recruit did in their game Friday? Answer is that it isn't hard at all and it costs NOTHING to do. Pretty telling that the most active WLU coaches on social media are Coach Kellar (by a long shot) followed by Coach Hill and Coach Monteroso. The other coaches are effectively not on social media...at least not in any meaningful recruiting standpoint.

I will say that the athletic department generally is about 1000% better over the last year...of course, they were basically starting at zero so they have a long way to go before they are even to a typical DII level. Still, kudos for at least recognizing the problem and making an effort to correct it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: At last it's over!

They are bring players to campus but even there, they don't appear to be doing it like higher performing programs. Anecdotal, but I've talked to a couple of HC's for HS programs that have taken players up to WLU for unofficial visits and they get NOTHING from WLU...not even a player to meet and talk with the prospects and give them a campus tour. The coaches contrasted that with unofficial visits they had made to other MEC programs were they met with coaches, had personal tours of the facilities, meetings with seniors and freshmen who were on the team. etc...basically the coaches treated them like VIP's and made them feel like to a player, they REALLY wanted them.

For the out of staters, I don't know. I kind of get the feeling that often the first day they set foot on campus is the first day of camp.

I haven't really evaluated the retention rate for out of state players as compared to local players but my sense is that it isn't dramatically different. Once you get beyond "driving distance" I don't think it matters weather a player is from North Carolina or FL/CA from a "homesick/left the team" standpoint.

WL is a pretty unique campus. I personally think the 'remote' vibe to it is kind of cool but that can also be a major turnoff to many. That's why I was asking if they are bringing the CA and FL players to campus before they actually sign. Going from an urban upbringing to the Hilltop would be quite the culture change.

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

WL is a pretty unique campus. I personally think the 'remote' vibe to it is kind of cool but that can also be a major turnoff to many. That's why I was asking if they are bringing the CA and FL players to campus before they actually sign. Going from an urban upbringing to the Hilltop would be quite the culture change.

Sure can be. But I note that there are large tracts of Cali and FLA that are just as "rural" as West Liberty. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Back in the day (LONG, LONG time ago!) when I was looking for a college to attend, they couldn't have given me enough free tuition to attend an "urban" college but I had a teammate who felt 180 degrees opposite!

[Layton]

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

Hahahaha!!! Teenagers and boredom seem to go hand in hand! My kids used to complain all the time (with the usual over dramatic displays) about how they were SOOOOOOOO...VERRRRYYYY...VERRRRYYYY...BORED!!!!!!! !!!X1000. I'd tell them to go over to a friends house...NOPE...boring there too. I'd tell them to go "play" in the woods...NOPE...boring. I'd tell them to go into town and do something...NOPE...town was COMPLETELY boring. I'd then say why don't you sit on the couch and play video games all day...Begrudgingly accepted as the least boring of 20 completely boring alternatives. You could put a college in the most interesting place on earth and the students in the dorms would complain about being soooo bored while doing nothing to become un-bored (is that a word??). I'm convinced after being one my self, watching two brothers and raising four kids that boredom is a mental condition that effects ALL people between the ages of 16 and 23. And trying to come up with things to make them un-bored (there's that word again!!) is a completely futile waist of time. Nothing you can be done about it...it just is what it is!!!!

[Sportsnut]

Re: At last it's over!

I was thinking what Layton just said about a young, energetic new coaching staff is needed to turn this sinking ship around. Maybe the administration will finally take action when Wheeling Jesuit beats them next year in their first season!

[Layton]

Re: At last it's over!

Hahahaha!!! Teenagers and boredom seem to go hand in hand! My kids used to complain all the time (with the usual over dramatic displays) about how they were SOOOOOOOO...VERRRRYYYY...VERRRRYYYY...BORED!!!!!!! !!!X1000. I'd tell them to go over to a friends house...NOPE...boring there too. I'd tell them to go "play" in the woods...NOPE...boring. I'd tell them to go into town and do something...NOPE...town was COMPLETELY boring. I'd then say why don't you sit on the couch and play video games all day...Begrudgingly accepted as the least boring of 20 completely boring alternatives. You could put a college in the most interesting place on earth and the students in the dorms would complain about being soooo bored while doing nothing to become un-bored (is that a word??). I'm convinced after being one my self, watching two brothers and raising four kids that boredom is a mental condition that effects ALL people between the ages of 16 and 23. And trying to come up with things to make them un-bored (there's that word again!!) is a completely futile waist of time. Nothing you can be done about it...it just is what it is!!!!

[HeavenontheHill]

Re: At last it's over!

I was thinking what Layton just said about a young, energetic new coaching staff is needed to turn this sinking ship around. Maybe the administration will finally take action when Wheeling Jesuit beats them next year in their first season!

[boatcapt]

Re: At last it's over!

I don't hate it...I just don't agree! I understand that WLU is not every prospective students cup of tea. But urban colleges are likewise not everyone's cup of tea either. Different strokes for different folks is all I'm saying.

I also think that boared college students is so common it's cleshay. Its as ubiquitous as overly dramatic 12 year old girls or moody 13 year old boys!! I would venture to guess that if you went into the dorms at almost any urban university, you would find more than a few residents who would complain about being SOOO bored because there was just nothing to do.