Will Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill budgets survive Covid-19?

[Fightingscot82]

Not sure how this works. And I have no idea how the state runs its pay scale or retirement system.
And I'm not a CPA. I have to pay one to due my taxes every yr.

Replace unit #1 making $140K. Replace unit #1 with unit #2 at a cost of $100K. Savings $40K.

But hold on. Unit #1 will receive retirement pay + health ins. Cost maybe $40K/yr
Unit #2 will also get pay increases to say about in 5 or 6 yrs making $125K, now add in the previous cost of
unit #1 retirement costs of $40K (assuming unit #1 is still living as most live at least 8 to 10yrs) also add in
ret Cost Of Living increases.
In 5 or 6 yrs the early buy-out could cost unit #2 $125K + unit #1 ret costs @ (base $40K + COL) $45K.

Unit #2 at $125K +unit #1 cost of $45K =$170K that's $30K more then the current unit#1 cost of $140K.
Net loss of $30K per unit replacement and that's not adding medical cost increases.

The most a professor makes is a little over $120k. That's full rank at the top of the schedule. Starting pay at the lowest rank is about $60k. Plus you can assume that the younger replacement also comes with lower medical insurance plan costs, the retirement match is lower, etc. Multiply that by 20 and you've got some big savings.

[Dirty Harry]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

Didn't you tell me to go on Google and check for the last state funded school to close???? So, now we see that it is a possibility, and it's not as stupid and irresponsible as you accused me of. I'm not saying it will happen in the state system, but, all of us really don't know what the future lies, and people should be looking at all kinds of options. Next time you see the leader of PASSHE, maybe mention to him that we need to fund athletics with state dollars like other states do. It's all about priorities. I know of one state school that had a Psych department that had 8 or 9 faculty members, but no one had graduated with a psych degree in like 5 years. And, yet, nothing changed. Hard decisions may have to be made, and some we may not like. Has anybody ever seen Administrator's furloughed? Or
had positions cut? There will likely be changes. Hopefully everybody survives, but these kinds of things often give people excuses to do things that they'd really like to do , but don't want to pay a political penalty for it.

[Sec10-A-14]

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

Not sure how this works. And I have no idea how the state runs its pay scale or retirement system.
And I'm not a CPA. I have to pay one to due my taxes every yr.

Replace unit #1 making $140K. Replace unit #1 with unit #2 at a cost of $100K. Savings $40K.

But hold on. Unit #1 will receive retirement pay + health ins. Cost maybe $40K/yr
Unit #2 will also get pay increases to say about in 5 or 6 yrs making $125K, now add in the previous cost of
unit #1 retirement costs of $40K (assuming unit #1 is still living as most live at least 8 to 10yrs) also add in
ret Cost Of Living increases.
In 5 or 6 yrs the early buy-out could cost unit #2 $125K + unit #1 ret costs @ (base $40K + COL) $45K.

Unit #2 at $125K +unit #1 cost of $45K =$170K that's $30K more then the current unit#1 cost of $140K.
Net loss of $30K per unit replacement and that's not adding medical cost increases.

[Fightingscot82]

Thanks. That's an outstanding article. Germane to our conversation.

It makes me feel vindicated as far as the positions I've taken, lol. The NYT agrees with 'ole groundhog.

Do you think Greenstein keeps up with our posts?

Haha I'm with you groundhog.

I can tell you that Greenstein is the absolute best suited chancellor for this moment of all previous others. He's a "higher ed guy" who is very well read on innovation, very well connected with higher ed thought leaders, and very well respected. I've only met him once and it was brief. He's into road biking - if I ever bump into him again I'll have to ask his thoughts on D2 football. Honestly, I bet he gets the value proposition in partial scholarship athletics. He understands the big picture that well.

[iupgroundhog]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

Thanks. That's an outstanding article. Germane to our conversation.

It makes me feel vindicated as far as the positions I've taken, lol. The NYT agrees with 'ole groundhog.

Do you think Greenstein keeps up with our posts?

[Fightingscot82]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

Bob Nutting perfected that practice years ago.

[Fightingscot82]

So conceivably a highly desirable department/major could lose its entire staff while less successful majors with lower student enrollment could go unscathed?

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

[boatcapt]

Across the board and across the system.

So conceivably a highly desirable department/major could lose its entire staff while less successful majors with lower student enrollment could go unscathed?

[Fightingscot82]

If they are cutting faculty to better reflect the current student enrolement, that is a step in the right direction. But attrition based staff cuts will only go so far and so quickly. My experience with early retirements or buy out programs is that you basically get an early glut of applicants and then the rate drops dramatically (the disgruntaled, disaffected and the just plain tired) and then the rate drops off dramatically. It is a good system if you only need to shave a small % of your work force but not so effective as a large scale reorganization tool.Is this program targeted as specific segments/majors or is it available to professors/teachers across the board?

Across the board and across the system.

[boatcapt]

PASSHE's problem is that most employees are unionized and the cuts can't come without a vacancy or a long drawn out retrenchment process. Can't nimbly adjust workforce with a setup built on the assumption that revenue is stable.

Appropriation has indeed grown but is still years behind where it should be. Tuition revenue remains down because enrollment losses outweigh tuition increases.

But the cuts you want are already in the works. Well over 200 faculty took a retirement incentive program. The system board just voted to extend the program to all other unions. For example, Edinboro is selling its branch campus in suburban Erie and replacing its sports dome with a fixed roof (steel) structure that has lower maintenance and utility costs. The state also gave them a grant to demolish unused buildings. Edinboro also outsourced its claimed attendant care program for students with severe physical disabilities to eliminate significant annual deficits. That's all on top of a hiring chill and the increased retirement. I've heard an estimate of in the 40s for Edinboro alone.

It's my understanding that all construction must be externally funded or necessary projects like roof replacement.

If they are cutting faculty to better reflect the current student enrolement, that is a step in the right direction. But attrition based staff cuts will only go so far and so quickly. My experience with early retirements or buy out programs is that you basically get an early glut of applicants and then the rate drops dramatically (the disgruntaled, disaffected and the just plain tired) and then the rate drops off dramatically. It is a good system if you only need to shave a small % of your work force but not so effective as a large scale reorganization tool.Is this program targeted as specific segments/majors or is it available to professors/teachers across the board?

[iupgroundhog]

I've read the PASSHE annual audit reports for the last six years (gee, Corona self quarantine is FUN!!). What I gleened from them it is that state appropriations have been going up (contrary to beliefs).

You looked at the last 6 years. What you have to understand is that trend is because there is a Democrat in the Capitol Building in Harrisburg. Before Wolf's tenure, the trend was in the opposite direction under Corbett. Not trying to be political. Just stating the facts.

[Fightingscot82]

It's probably never going to happen but each school needs to cut its staff and strongly consider selling assets to reflect the current levels of enrollment.

I've read the PASSHE annual audit reports for the last six years (gee, Corona self quarantine is FUN!!). What I gleened from them it is that state appropriations have been going up (contrary to beliefs)...tuition revenue is going down (In spite of nearly annual tuition increases)...and personnel costs are going up.

PASSHE's problem is that most employees are unionized and the cuts can't come without a vacancy or a long drawn out retrenchment process. Can't nimbly adjust workforce with a setup built on the assumption that revenue is stable.

Appropriation has indeed grown but is still years behind where it should be. Tuition revenue remains down because enrollment losses outweigh tuition increases.

But the cuts you want are already in the works. Well over 200 faculty took a retirement incentive program. The system board just voted to extend the program to all other unions. For example, Edinboro is selling its branch campus in suburban Erie and replacing its sports dome with a fixed roof (steel) structure that has lower maintenance and utility costs. The state also gave them a grant to demolish unused buildings. Edinboro also outsourced its claimed attendant care program for students with severe physical disabilities to eliminate significant annual deficits. That's all on top of a hiring chill and the increased retirement. I've heard an estimate of in the 40s for Edinboro alone.

It's my understanding that all construction must be externally funded or necessary projects like roof replacement.

[Dirty Harry]

It's probably never going to happen but each school needs to cut its staff and strongly consider selling assets to reflect the current levels of enrollment.

I've read the PASSHE annual audit reports for the last six years (gee, Corona self quarantine is FUN!!). What I gleened from them it is that state appropriations have been going up (contrary to beliefs)...tuition revenue is going down (In spite of nearly annual tuition increases)...and personnel costs are going up.

Bombshell Info!

[boatcapt]

It's probably never going to happen but each school needs to cut its staff and strongly consider selling assets to reflect the current levels of enrollment.

I've read the PASSHE annual audit reports for the last six years (gee, Corona self quarantine is FUN!!). What I gleened from them it is that state appropriations have been going up (contrary to beliefs)...tuition revenue is going down (In spite of nearly annual tuition increases)...and personnel costs are going up.