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  • #31
    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

    Folks on this board have been advocating for kicking Seton Hill out of the PSAC almost since they joined. Also many advocated for kicking Cheyney out before they left. I also remember a number of posts were folks have advocated for cutting all the "non-performers" out including but not limited to Mansfield, Clarion, Lock Haven and Edinboro. Yes, one school actually being kicked out of the PSAC does not constutute a trend in and of itself, but when you combine that with the other voluntary departures and the sentiment of a perhaps small but signifigant portion of the PSAC fan base you get a drum beat for kicking schools out when they are no longer needed.

    As for Shepherd specifically being kicked out of the PSAC, while I don't see it happening, they are on the table. Here's why I think that. 1. They are a non-PASSHE school (PSAC first and foremost is a conference for PASSHE. The non-PASSHE schools are just place fillers), 2. They are the only school in the PSAC that is outside of Pennsylvania (The only other exampleof a non-PA school in the PSAC was Post and we know what happened to them, 3. They are the newest member of the PSAC (last in, first out). Again, I don't think the PSAC will dump them, but a case can be made that of the four not PASSHE schools, they are the ones that should be dropped...and I would imagine that the Hurst, Gannon and Seton Hill will make that case (if they want to stay in a trimmed down PSAC).
    Who besides Post?????

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

      Who besides Post?????
      Cheyney for all sports and Mansfield for football.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

        Cheyney for all sports and Mansfield for football.
        There is absolutely chatter on this MB by mostly PSAC fans about the competitiveness of various schools. Most frequently it is questioning the commitment of the AD and administration of the schools who do so poorly. It also involves heavy criticism of schools who try "too hard" like the CAL U renaissance of the '90s-'00s. Aside from CHEYNEY which was an obvious hopeless case, suggestions that other schools leave or quit were couched in a "if they're not going to try why are they even competing" challenge to do better. MANSFIELD'S decision to change to SPRINT FOOTBALL was purely that administration's decision to save money.
        You are right in one regard. The HOME OFFICE does take a very proactive stance in looking out for the health and success of the league and it's members. They actually to a much better job at that than the PASSHE does at managing the university structure. So I would say absolutely be aware that plans are being made for many eventualities including but not limited to departures, consolidation or even expansion. If you think about it the PSAC could go on as a league of D2 colleges even if the PASSHE was shut down completely. Don't see that immediately but who's to say.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

          Yes Post is the only team to have actually left the conference, but not the only example of member schools either cutting major athletic programs or cutting athletics entirely. Although, I guess Cheyney hasn't actually cut their athletic programs as they still have a couple. In actuality, they left the PSAC and the NCAA so I guess, technically two teams have left the PSAC. For comparison, the MEC has had one program (Urbana) cut athletics (closed the school completely), and two schools leave (UV-Wise and Shepherd). The MEC has added two schools from the GMAC, one as an associate member (UNCP) and one moving up from D3 (Frostburgh). MEC appears to have one program is serious financial straights (WU) while the PSAC has several (Mansfield, Clarion, Locke Haven, Edinboro) and is in the process of reorganizing that probably will result in a number of these programs cutting athletics.

          So who is in constant chaos?? PSAC has had seven "new programs" come to the conference, three programs either leave or severly cut their PSAC partisipation and four more on the current choping block. Seems like the PSAC is in as much chaos as the GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and MEC.
          You're just speculating at this point. IUP has lost as many students as Edinboro since 2010 but they're not in your list because they've been winning on the football field. All but 5 of the 14 PASSHE schools have notified the professors union that they are exploring layoffs within the next year. Those five NOT exploring faculty layoffs are East Stroudsburg, Millersville, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

            You're just speculating at this point. IUP has lost as many students as Edinboro since 2010 but they're not in your list because they've been winning on the football field. All but 5 of the 14 PASSHE schools have notified the professors union that they are exploring layoffs within the next year. Those five NOT exploring faculty layoffs are East Stroudsburg, Millersville, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester.
            IUP's football success is a direct correlation to its financial support among boosters. IUP has (for this level) a very strong core of heavy hitters when it comes to coughing up yearly (big) checks. Same with Slippery Rock. Follow the money and it leads you to wins on Saturday's in the Fall. Same with basketball. Joe Lombardi is a great coach -- who also has a ton of money to spend every season. To Joe's and Tort's credit, they are both good fundraisers. Joe has some of the biggest donors in town in his close circle.

            As it's well-discussed on here, IUP has a very loyal following -- but, a very old following. That is alarming to me as we hit the next decade. Hopefully some younger donors start to emerge.

            Enrollment-wise ... yeah, they have a problem. President Driz may take the fall for it if it isn't fixed soon. No reason they shouldn't be carrying at least 13,500 students. I don't see them ever getting back to the diploma factory heyday numbers-wise.

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            • #36
              i
              Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

              There is absolutely chatter on this MB by mostly PSAC fans about the competitiveness of various schools. Most frequently it is questioning the commitment of the AD and administration of the schools who do so poorly. It also involves heavy criticism of schools who try "too hard" like the CAL U renaissance of the '90s-'00s. Aside from CHEYNEY which was an obvious hopeless case, suggestions that other schools leave or quit were couched in a "if they're not going to try why are they even competing" challenge to do better. MANSFIELD'S decision to change to SPRINT FOOTBALL was purely that administration's decision to save money.
              You are right in one regard. The HOME OFFICE does take a very proactive stance in looking out for the health and success of the league and it's members. They actually to a much better job at that than the PASSHE does at managing the university structure. So I would say absolutely be aware that plans are being made for many eventualities including but not limited to departures, consolidation or even expansion. If you think about it the PSAC could go on as a league of D2 colleges even if the PASSHE was shut down completely. Don't see that immediately but who's to say.
              As time has gone by, the PSAC has become less and less a PASSHE/Pennsylvania/public school conference. Up until the Mansfield situation, the PSAC was 100% PASSHE, 100% PA, 100% public and 100% football playing. After Mansfield stepped out of football and Post took their place, the PSAC was 93% PASSHE, 93% PA, 93% public and 93% football playing. Fast forward a couple of years to the Gannon/Seton Hill/UPJ/Hurst addition and Posts departure and the PSAC was 77% PASSHE, 100% PA, 77% public and 88% football playing. Fast forward to the Cheyney/Shepherd swap and the PSAC is now 72% PASSHE, 94% PA, 77% public and 88% football playing.

              No one knows how or even if the PASSHE will be able to reach an agreements that affect sports, but it seems that most posters are in agreement that Clarion, Locke Haven and Mansfield are on the chopping block and perhaps Edinboro also. Also, some have speculated that the PSAC will try and plump it's ranks up by adding another out of state member in the form of NDC. Assuming all this comes to pass, the PSAC will stand at 60% PASSHE, 83% PA, and 93% of it's members playing football. I on the other hand, think that in addition to trimming four schools from the PASSHE athletic roles, the PSAC will trim one football playing non-PASSHE school as well as non-football UPJ to give it 12 members all playing football. In that senario PASSHE membership in the PSAC goes to 75%, PA representation goes to 100% ( 91% if they trim a school other than Shepherd) and 100% playing football. Nice tight conference were the expense of travel for the still cash strapped schools is reduced.
              Last edited by boatcapt; 06-29-2020, 04:54 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                You're just speculating at this point. IUP has lost as many students as Edinboro since 2010 but they're not in your list because they've been winning on the football field. All but 5 of the 14 PASSHE schools have notified the professors union that they are exploring layoffs within the next year. Those five NOT exploring faculty layoffs are East Stroudsburg, Millersville, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester.
                Hummm...Isn't speculation what this thread, and most of this message board about???

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                  Cheyney for all sports and Mansfield for football.
                  Mansfield dropped the sport on their own accord! Their president did not want to fund it anymore. How is that the PSACs fault?

                  As far as Cheyney, everyone on this board would agree it was long past due that THEY DECIDED TO DE-FUND THEIR ATHLETIC PROGRAM. The university did, not the PSAC.

                  So once again, you claim the PSAC has a history of kicking teams to the curb. I gave you Post because both sides have evidence to prove the other wrong, but who else have they kicked to the curb? So two schools decide to de-fund programs. That is your rationale that the PSAC has had a history of kicking schools out?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                    Mansfield dropped the sport on their own accord! Their president did not want to fund it anymore. How is that the PSACs fault?

                    As far as Cheyney, everyone on this board would agree it was long past due that THEY DECIDED TO DE-FUND THEIR ATHLETIC PROGRAM. The university did, not the PSAC.

                    So once again, you claim the PSAC has a history of kicking teams to the curb. I gave you Post because both sides have evidence to prove the other wrong, but who else have they kicked to the curb? So two schools decide to de-fund programs. That is your rationale that the PSAC has had a history of kicking schools out?
                    Post was also essentially a mutually-agreed stop-gap for each side ... much like the MEC currently adding UNC-Pembroke for football. UNCP won't be there long but they fill a gap in the meantime.

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                    • #40
                      Correct. It doesn't mean that the conference is kicking schools out! Boat is just reaching.

                      Also, I would like his response to my conversation with Steve Murray long ago...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                        i

                        As time has gone by, the PSAC has become less and less a PASSHE/Pennsylvania/public school conference. Up until the Mansfield situation, the PSAC was 100% PASSHE, 100% PA, 100% public and 100% football playing. After Mansfield stepped out of football and Post took their place, the PSAC was 93% PASSHE, 93% PA, 93% public and 93% football playing. Fast forward a couple of years to the Gannon/Seton Hill/UPJ/Hurst addition and Posts departure and the PSAC was 77% PASSHE, 100% PA, 77% public and 88% football playing. Fast forward to the Cheyney/Shepherd swap and the PSAC is now 72% PASSHE, 94% PA, 77% public and 88% football playing.

                        No one knows how or even if the PASSHE will be able to reach an agreements that affect sports, but it seems that most posters are in agreement that Clarion, Locke Haven and Mansfield are on the chopping block and perhaps Edinboro also. Also, some have speculated that the PSAC will try and plump it's ranks up by adding another out of state member in the form of NDC. Assuming all this comes to pass, the PSAC will stand at 60% PASSHE, 83% PA, and 93% of it's members playing football. I on the other hand, think that in addition to trimming four schools from the PASSHE athletic roles, the PSAC will trim one football playing non-PASSHE school as well as non-football UPJ to give it 12 members all playing football. In that senario PASSHE membership in the PSAC goes to 75%, PA representation goes to 100% ( 91% if they trim a school other than Shepherd) and 100% playing football. Nice tight conference were the expense of travel for the still cash strapped schools is reduced.
                        You laid out a number of interesting possibilities many of which I agree are viable. Which tends to confirm what I indicated about PSAC aggressive forward thinking in this time of major structural change. Consider this possibility. After 3 years of discussion the administration comes up with a radical consolidation plan that reduces by nearly half the number of schools in the system. Maybe they even decide to toss the tainted PASSHE name to who knows what and in response PSAC decides to separate and become the ESAC, EASTERN STATES ATHLETIC CONFERENCE. At that point Pa will simply be the center point from which to pursue members in PA, OH, WV, MD and NJ. There are a lot of targets in that geography. Once again I emphasize this is all highly unlikely, but I don't believe STEVE MURRAY is going to caught unprepared.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post
                          Correct. It doesn't mean that the conference is kicking schools out! Boat is just reaching.

                          Also, I would like his response to my conversation with Steve Murray long ago...
                          Ok...Teams leaving the PSAC without the PSAC's knowledge.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                            Ok...Teams leaving the PSAC without the PSAC's knowledge.
                            No Boat. That doesn't make sense. You implied that the PSAC constantly poaches school, and poached Shepherd. I actually provided information on a conversation that I had with Steve Murrary, who told me 15 years ago Shepherd wanted into the PSAC. Shepherd wanted out long before the invitation was given to them. Your rhetoric towards the PSAC and false claims have no merit.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                              No Boat. That doesn't make sense. You implied that the PSAC constantly poaches school, and poached Shepherd. I actually provided information on a conversation that I had with Steve Murrary, who told me 15 years ago Shepherd wanted into the PSAC. Shepherd wanted out long before the invitation was given to them. Your rhetoric towards the PSAC and false claims have no merit.
                              Thought better of this post so I deleted it.
                              Last edited by boatcapt; 06-30-2020, 08:03 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45


                                Money always talks. Just a guess but if your infamous Mr. West down on the Hilltop wanted to leave the MEC ... WLU would be leaving the MEC.
                                Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 06-30-2020, 08:41 AM.

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