Black Monday

[MDRussell]

Re: Black Monday

Winters needs to go, man.

You are coming dangerously close to a point where Wayne State players will have PARENTS who weren't even born the last time Wayne beat GV.

Yeah... I played on a team that brought home the wooden shoes and beat Grand valley in 1979... I hate to admit that I don't recall any wins over the Lakers since then.

[Runnin' Cat]

Re: Black Monday

Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.

I am not sure what GV pays their coaches, but I do know that for DII, it is not an "insane amount". I think a small community bank president makes more money than most HCs in DII.

[KleShreen]

Re: Black Monday

I am not sure what GV pays their coaches, but I do know that for DII, it is not an "insane amount". I think a small community bank president makes more money than most HCs in DII.

I doubt there's many head coaches in D-II who don't make six figures.

[chapmaja]

Re: Black Monday

I can think of two head coaches that were fired since 2000 - Terry Smith, Men's BB and Claudette Charney, Women's BB.

If we are talking GVSU coaches that were fired, I don't recall Charney being fired as GVSU coach, but I think it may have been a resignation under threat of termination. GVSU had a tough year her second to last season, finishing something like 7-19. The program struggled to replace key pieces that graduated in the late 1990's from Charney's best GVSU teams. They did improved to 13-13 in her last season at GVSU before she took the job at Hillsdale.

I don't recall Smith being fired either, but looking at the team recently, I have to wonder how much time Ric Wesley, the current coach has if Smith was fired after seasons of 15-14, 14-14, 14-13 his last three seasons. Wesley has gone 16-13 and 14-15 the last two seasons.

There is only one other GVSU coach that I know of that was relieved of their duties as head coach. Dewey Newsome, the first coach the swimming and diving teams was relieved of his duties in about 2006. Dewey was not fired, but was forced to retire after he was unable to complete the duties due to the effects of a stroke he suffered returning from the NCAA championships the previous season. Tim Selgo was quoted as saying that was the toughest thing he had to do as the AD.

To my knowledge all of the other coaches since 2000 that have left have been on their own, with one possible exception. Dago Cotrez, the first women's soccer coach at GVSU may also have been fired, but from what I recall that wasn't on the field performance based. Supposedly there was something in his contract that required him to obtain a college degree by a certain date and he failed to attain that requirement and was let go. I don't recall all the specifics but I don't think his departure was on his own terms.

[chargerblue]

Re: Black Monday

Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.

Insane amount of money? Not sure about rest of D2 but last I knew, Otter wasn't make a ton more than me and I get to play Legos all day and help kids make cookie cutters for their moms on a 3D printer.

Not only do these guys invest huge amounts of their lives away from their families to make it work, when it doesn't live up to the dreams of a bunch of fans then they get to go into the room of their 8 year-old son, who they don't hardly see anyway, and explain that dad couldn't get the job done and that they'll be looking for a new team to coach. i finished coaching when my daughter was born but I sure remember my old man coming in and telling me we'd be trading in our Maple Valley Lions stuff for some other school soon. Real people with real families.

[chargerblue]

Re: Black Monday

I doubt there's many head coaches in D-II who don't make six figures.

That is what a high school principal makes....and I still think your number is high.

[champgymusa]

Re: Black Monday

Insane amount of money? Not sure about rest of D2 but last I knew, Otter wasn't make a ton more than me and I get to play Legos all day and help kids make cookie cutters for their moms on a 3D printer.

Not only do these guys invest huge amounts of their lives away from their families to make it work, when it doesn't live up to the dreams of a bunch of fans then they get to go into the room of their 8 year-old son, who they don't hardly see anyway, and explain that dad couldn't get the job done and that they'll be looking for a new team to coach. i finished coaching when my daughter was born but I sure remember my old man coming in and telling me we'd be trading in our Maple Valley Lions stuff for some other school soon. Real people with real families.

Yea but who cares about those D2,D3 guys, they are all gonna be rich D1 head coaches some day and after all they signed up for it as did their wives and unborn children...Yea right...you get it...a few on here don't and frankly never will...and can you make me a Laker logo plastic cookie cutter or does that thing only spit out Charger logos?

[Tony33]

Re: Black Monday

Yea but who cares about those D2,D3 guys, they are all gonna be rich D1 head coaches some day and after all they signed up for it as did their wives and unborn children...Yea right...you get it...a few on here don't and frankly never will...and can you make me a Laker logo plastic cookie cutter or does that thing only spit out Charger logos?

If your program is crap, then someone should be FIRED. I don't care if you are a little league coach working for free. These kids come to college to be winners, how would you feel playing for a coach that's horrible, don't want to change his ways, don't want to be held accountable, but we are keeping him because his kids will have to move or have to find another job. If you SUCK, then YOU made the bed you are in.

[KleShreen]

Re: Black Monday

Insane amount of money? Not sure about rest of D2 but last I knew, Otter wasn't make a ton more than me and I get to play Legos all day and help kids make cookie cutters for their moms on a 3D printer.

Not only do these guys invest huge amounts of their lives away from their families to make it work, when it doesn't live up to the dreams of a bunch of fans then they get to go into the room of their 8 year-old son, who they don't hardly see anyway, and explain that dad couldn't get the job done and that they'll be looking for a new team to coach. i finished coaching when my daughter was born but I sure remember my old man coming in and telling me we'd be trading in our Maple Valley Lions stuff for some other school soon. Real people with real families.

Yea but who cares about those D2,D3 guys, they are all gonna be rich D1 head coaches some day and after all they signed up for it as did their wives and unborn children...Yea right...you get it...a few on here don't and frankly never will...and can you make me a Laker logo plastic cookie cutter or does that thing only spit out Charger logos?

So every sports coach of any kind should get a job, and then keep that job forever, in perpetuity, unless they decide they want to work somewhere else all on their own? Because neither of you have said anything to the contrary. I don't believe that to be a way to build a successful program.

champ - your condescension is really getting thick. EVERYONE here knows what it takes to be a coach and the sacrifices that are made. But you seem to want to paint it as some bleeding heart, hardship story where they are slaving away at this position they love and getting no respect or admiration for it, only to get stabbed in the back by the people they serve! Give me a break. Again - if any coach went in to the profession expecting to never move, or to never have any hardships, then they shouldn't be in it in the first place. There's people working in offices and factories all around the country who can be fired at any time, without cause, and be living on the street within a month. But the football coach who has his contract bought out and offers waiting for him as soon as he walks out the door - that's who we should be worried about? We should be worried about the first-year assistant who is going to tag along with whichever coach hired him the year before?

[Tony33]

Re: Black Monday

If your program is crap, then someone should be FIRED. I don't care if you are a little league coach working for free. These kids come to college to be winners, how would you feel playing for a coach that's horrible, don't want to change his ways, don't want to be held accountable, but we are keeping him because his kids will have to move or have to find another job. If you SUCK, then YOU made the bed you are in.

I will say this though, if GVSU wants to fire a coach they will land on their feet. You have it much better than most.

[champgymusa]

Re: Black Monday

So every sports coach of any kind should get a job, and then keep that job forever, in perpetuity, unless they decide they want to work somewhere else all on their own? Because neither of you have said anything to the contrary. I don't believe that to be a way to build a successful program.

champ - your condescension is really getting thick. EVERYONE here knows what it takes to be a coach and the sacrifices that are made. But you seem to want to paint it as some bleeding heart, hardship story where they are slaving away at this position they love and getting no respect or admiration for it, only to get stabbed in the back by the people they serve! Give me a break. Again - if any coach went in to the profession expecting to never move, or to never have any hardships, then they shouldn't be in it in the first place. There's people working in offices and factories all around the country who can be fired at any time, without cause, and be living on the street within a month. But the football coach who has his contract bought out and offers waiting for him as soon as he walks out the door - that's who we should be worried about? We should be worried about the first-year assistant who is going to tag along with whichever coach hired him the year before?

I think it's time to agree to disagree with you Kle...I do worry more about the little guys than the guys that will land on their feet. And yea some coaches should get fired, some teachers should too, some of everything should. Done with this, see you guys on the GV board, time to move on.

[KleShreen]

Re: Black Monday

I think it's time to agree to disagree with you Kle...I do worry more about the little guys than the guys that will land on their feet. And yea some coaches should get fired, some teachers should too, some of everything should. Done with this, see you guys on the GV board, time to move on.

And I'm just saying that even the "little guys" on a coaching staff have a much better chance of landing on their feet with a comparable job than people outside of coaching. Nobody is happy when someone gets fired. Nobody wants to have anyone get fired, because that means there's a problem. But if it happens, it happens, and everyone is going to be fine. I've yet to see a story about a football coach at any level being fired and then becoming homeless and wandering the streets. I respect your caring for everyone involved in the profession, but they'll all be fine, regardless!

Anyway, only 2.5 months until signing day, and 9 months til kickoff!

[MrsThortonMelon]

Re: Black Monday

And I'm just saying that even the "little guys" on a coaching staff have a much better chance of landing on their feet with a comparable job than people outside of coaching. Nobody is happy when someone gets fired. Nobody wants to have anyone get fired, because that means there's a problem. But if it happens, it happens, and everyone is going to be fine. I've yet to see a story about a football coach at any level being fired and then becoming homeless and wandering the streets. I respect your caring for everyone involved in the profession, but they'll all be fine, regardless!

Anyway, only 2.5 months until signing day, and 9 months til kickoff!

You must be having a tough time landing on your feet or finding a job based on some of your writings, what did you major in at GVSU anyway? And for the record people are leaving coaching jobs at a record rate so there should be PLENTY of openings...I mean anyone can live on the 14-16 K salary that a lot of these guys start at anyway, who needs to eat or have health insurance? Much overrated!

[OICU812]

Re: Black Monday

You must be having a tough time landing on your feet or finding a job based on some of your writings, what did you major in at GVSU anyway? And for the record people are leaving coaching jobs at a record rate so there should be PLENTY of openings...I mean anyone can live on the 14-16 K salary that a lot of these guys start at anyway, who needs to eat or have health insurance? Much overrated!

You realize that is a career "choice", right? God bless them for doing it, but, nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

[MrsThortonMelon]

Re: Black Monday

You realize that is a career "choice", right? God bless them for doing it, but, nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

O I totally agree, its a choise and yes thank God people will take those jobs, but the problem is that people are running away in record numbers from coaching for a number of reasons, ******* parents being the leader I think. Also at the lower levels I think it is getting harder and harder to get quality coaching. Of course if everyone that thinks they know how to coach gets into coaching problem will be solved. Hard to find a lot of things these days...seems like no one wants to fix anything, just throw it away..