The national championship - harding vs ferris.

[Predatory Primates]

Which 1 player would you say turned HU into a contender the last 2 years?

Their 2nd team (they just split carries) fullback is the leading rusher at 1100 yards. One of the slots also with over 1000.

I've only seen a couple of Harding games this year, but I think it's probably the QB. He is such a smart player and makes that thing run like a top. It could be the edge rusher being a true home run threat, but I think it's the QB.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying HU doesn't have a ton of great players. They definitely do. I'm just saying almost all of the great option teams I have seen in the past (even back when everyone ran it) were all one injury away from being good but not great.

It can be true to an extent with any scheme, but the option just seems to require that magnifier who makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts.

[Divisiontwo]

Those guys are important, but from what I see, it's the Oline and the way they block. Many a play it can get essentially an automatic 2-3 yards. Then the skills guys add on to that.

I’m with ya. I don’t think it’s one stand out player. Even though Jay is likely the best perimeter player we’ve ever had. I asked Pred that question because I disagreed with his take about 1 stand out player required to be a contender.

[Redwing]

Which 1 player would you say turned HU into a contender the last 2 years?

Their 2nd team (they just split carries) fullback is the leading rusher at 1100 yards. One of the slots also with over 1000.

Those guys are important, but from what I see, it's the Oline and the way they block. Many a play it can get essentially an automatic 2-3 yards. Then the skills guys add on to that.

[FSUBulldogs]

Which 1 player would you say turned HU into a contender the last 2 years?

Their 2nd team (they just split carries) fullback is the leading rusher at 1100 yards. One of the slots also with over 1000.

Harding has built a program where they don't just have 1 or 2 players performing at a high level. They built a program where they can have multiple weapons on offense. I think the thing that gets lost. It took them multiple years to get to a point where they have athletes at multiple offensive positions. You got to start a program from a low point and build it up, doesn't matter on the offense of scheme that you are running.

[FSUBulldogs]

The one thing that TA is going to have to be on the bulldogs this week is that they can not give Harding any free yards at all. Disciplined football. No jumping off sides, no stupid boneheaded penalties, and most likely keep the jawing down to a minimum. They clean that up and not turning the ball over, they've got a punchers chance in the game.

I couldn't agree more. The talking is okay in my mind, but it can't affect the game in terms of getting penalties for it. If they can play a clean game, they match up well against this Harding team.

[Divisiontwo]

Kearney had some success running a version of the option in the MIAA for several years. Southern ran it not that long ago,.and Pitt mixed it in during Tim Becks last year as hc. The problem I have always had with it is that it is so limited when playing from behind. It also tends to be an offense where one player can be the difference between being a 6 to 8 win team and a contender. Not that it isn't designed to spread the ball around, but it's not very effective at anything but playing keep away without a true stand out player

That said, it gives a recruiting advantage and allows teams to get the O players they need and still focus on Defense.

One thing I have always felt is that option quarterbacks get way too little love. They are often called running backs, and never get mentioned among the best QBs. They have to have a rare skillset that often requires more reads and on field calls than most traditional QBs, but also requires them to (gasp) lower their head and run for hard yards, and (shriek) block for their backs on a lot of plays.

Which 1 player would you say turned HU into a contender the last 2 years?

Their 2nd team (they just split carries) fullback is the leading rusher at 1100 yards. One of the slots also with over 1000.

[Predatory Primates]

I was the one who said that Northern should take a look at running the option. They've got issues there at Northern getting guys to come, and to stay. Winning helps, winning because of the system might help them get better guys and keep them longer as well. The Wildcats getting good enough to at least challenge the top of the league would just help us out more when having to face a Harding, or if some other program decides to go all in on running an option offense and become dang good at it. Some normally also ran from the MIAA, an RMAC, or NSIC team, heck, maybe an Ohio team perhaps? Kle could be onto something with the idea of more D2's adopting the Option and putting their own spin on it.

Kearney had some success running a version of the option in the MIAA for several years. Southern ran it not that long ago,.and Pitt mixed it in during Tim Becks last year as hc. The problem I have always had with it is that it is so limited when playing from behind. It also tends to be an offense where one player can be the difference between being a 6 to 8 win team and a contender. Not that it isn't designed to spread the ball around, but it's not very effective at anything but playing keep away without a true stand out player

That said, it gives a recruiting advantage and allows teams to get the O players they need and still focus on Defense.

One thing I have always felt is that option quarterbacks get way too little love. They are often called running backs, and never get mentioned among the best QBs. They have to have a rare skillset that often requires more reads and on field calls than most traditional QBs, but also requires them to (gasp) lower their head and run for hard yards, and (shriek) block for their backs on a lot of plays.

[BisonOL]

But the offense your DL was going against doesn't necessarily require you to do the same kind of things as it does for the defensive line that has to dodge guys diving at their knees.

True Kle but back to my original point snow effects the def more than the off. Def has to read and react. Off knows where they are going

[bigmrg74]

It will be interesting because we do have 2 pretty good defensive tackles. I assignment football at its finest. It’s interesting what defense fronts team put up to contain the option plays. Some teams like a 3 -4 front with the NT half yard off the ball. More time to pick and crash gap. Then all all LBs and Safety’s have assigned player. So hard for defenses to stay disciplined and not chase the ball but stay with the player. Their goal is to out number you on any position on the field.

we will need long drives as well to keep their D on the field as well. Both times played it’s been close - our 2021, 2022 teams were beasts not sure where would pit this 2024 team. Throwing teams like Shepherd, Mines and UCU we can handle but Harding you have to get some turn overs, not turn over the ball and win coin toss to defer to 2nd half.

I know I have talked smack to amp this game up but we respect all and fear none.

The one thing that TA is going to have to be on the bulldogs this week is that they can not give Harding any free yards at all. Disciplined football. No jumping off sides, no stupid boneheaded penalties, and most likely keep the jawing down to a minimum. They clean that up and not turning the ball over, they've got a punchers chance in the game.

[bigmrg74]

That's good to know. I was wondering if they were as stout on D as last year.

You're right about other D2 teams needing to adopt this offense. It suits D2 teams very well due to the scholarship and funding issues they face. You don't have to go after the most athletic players. Just find the short, quick, and stout OL guys the country offers. Find a wickedly bright quarterback who runs hard and can take a beating. Then do the same for your running backs, too, but they don't need to have the smarts like your QB. It's a plus but not required. The biggest thing they all need is discipline and a selfless personality. I really want to see Northern get good at this style of offense for their school and for the GLIAC to see a team during the season that runs an option-based offense.

I was the one who said that Northern should take a look at running the option. They've got issues there at Northern getting guys to come, and to stay. Winning helps, winning because of the system might help them get better guys and keep them longer as well. The Wildcats getting good enough to at least challenge the top of the league would just help us out more when having to face a Harding, or if some other program decides to go all in on running an option offense and become dang good at it. Some normally also ran from the MIAA, an RMAC, or NSIC team, heck, maybe an Ohio team perhaps? Kle could be onto something with the idea of more D2's adopting the Option and putting their own spin on it.

[KleShreen]

Me pointing out when GVSU had the majority of their scoring wasn’t a knock on GVSU just making a point. U scored 6 against our 1’s last yr and 10 this yr with yardage about the same. U make a great point which I agree with about ur DL but remember it goes both ways. We can’t get the same traction either. And it’s the same DL minus one player.

But the offense your DL was going against doesn't necessarily require you to do the same kind of things as it does for the defensive line that has to dodge guys diving at their knees.

[Divisiontwo]

KleShreen im not sure that I agree with the defense part. We bring back nearly everyone from that defense. Lost a good DE who won some accolades but he didn’t even have as good of a year last year as the guy playing behind him who is starting now and had a sack/forced fumble this past Saturday.

but, I think it’s splitting hairs. Both years the defense has operated at a very high level for the most part. They’ll need to do so again Saturday. The DL you saw last year especially.

[bigmrg74]

I find it funny that harding fans just didn't talk much smack until it became clear they'd be on the road no matter what, then immediately became god's strongest message board posters

They were busy with their Silo bunker at that time.

[Redwing]

Ya win one national championship and your untouchable is what I'm feeling from some of the Harding posters. They have a great team, but they are human. Let's go dogs! They might even make a few Lakers say that this week haha

Yeah. I can't believe it myself. As the hours after the game last Saturday roll by, I find myself hoping for a .... dare I type this.. a Bulldog win? WTF? I won't lie. Some of the stuff around the Bison program that surfaced for me Saturday is pushing me that way. It's not posters or fans either. I'll be interested in seeing how those "things" play out this Saturday- if one can even detect that..

I wonder how Ferris will set up the field. With the temps being above freezing, they might not be able to do much. Still, I wonder if TA and company has some tricks to give his guys just that edge. Harding may have enough talent and well executed schemes that it won't matter though. I truly don't know who should be the fav. Saturday. I hope that they get more than 2k butts in the stands, but PO's rarely draw well. Maybe, I'll have to add to that number in the stands, but it might just be too painful for me to watch in person.

[BisonOL]

Oh yea, I'm well aware GV's offense only got 7 points against the 1's, and it was with their scripted plays. But GV's offense this year is also light years behind what GV's offense last year was. That opening drive for GV was arguably their best offensive drive of the entire season. Last year's Harding doesn't let that happen, especially against a backup QB. Last year's Harding defense was also a monster up front, and I didn't feel like this year's Harding DL was anywhere close to what last year's was.

And the impact on the defense is magnified when going against your flexbone offense. Because the defensive front needs to get leverage and also be quick side-to-side, both of which are hindered in the snow with bad grip.

I also thought it was interesting that Cole Keylon had his biggest output of the season against GV. Most yards, second-highest number of carries. Keylon doesn't normally keep the ball that much. And I think GV, as a result, probably focused too much on the backs (unsuccessfully, obviously), and didn't account enough for Keylon running, and it resulted in him being unchecked multiple times. Last season, Keylon was bottled up by GV. And I think that's because the defensive talent on the GV side allowed for a linebacker to cover Keylon on every play, and the outside backers/safeties were good enough to cover the backs, which is what they did. But the talent to do that wasn't there this year for GV.

Me pointing out when GVSU had the majority of their scoring wasn’t a knock on GVSU just making a point. U scored 6 against our 1’s last yr and 10 this yr with yardage about the same. U make a great point which I agree with about ur DL but remember it goes both ways. We can’t get the same traction either. And it’s the same DL minus one player.