Who goes to a Bowl?

[northwest missouri state]

[Predatory Primates]

Yeah I think Elwood has all kinds of sports that the miaa doesn't offer. I think Truman did, too.

[Predatory Primates]

That said, if Pitt ever stops sucking and faces them in the playoffs, I will pretend that they ran away because of football for the week leading up to the game.

[FlyinLion]

When Jones says "They did not want to play in the MIAA, they wanted to play lesser competition" he is talking about football. The only sport the MIAA has clearly been superior to the GLVC in is football. He's not talking about basketball, or wrestling, or volleyball.

If I were a member of the Live United Bowl I'd be a little taken back that he used that platform at their event to lament and throw jabs at a team that literally has nothing to do with why they're there. I agree with you, that his point was that he felt "both teams in the bowl are better than a team that was selected for the playoffs". Going down the rabbit hole he did to surmise about the motives of another institution you have no affiliation with is just bad form.

And finally, you say they ran from the challenge. So what I'm hearing you say is that you believe that the reason LU went from the MIAA to the GLVC is because of the challenge of football. Is that right?

BTW, Creer is no longer AD of the University. When leadership changes, sometimes vision and direction changes as well.

"You know the team that was selected ahead of us into the playoffs, bought their way out of the MIAA. They did not want to play in the MIAA. They wanted to play a little lesser competition. That helped them get into the playoffs." - Shawn Jones

He is talking about football but I don't take it as far as you do. Kinda like how I don't see how him saying LU "bought their way out the MIAA" equates to your statement that he suggested they "'bought' a playoff spot." Hits a lot closer to home for you than it does me though.

Curious what % of the decision of LU to go to the GLVC is okay to attribute to football? You clearly take exception to 100%. If all the other sports are a wash (which I wouldn't concede), why choose the MIAA over GLVC in 2012 if not for football? Travel would have been better in the GLVC then too.

I'm saying LU ran from the challenge in the MIAA in all sports, with the biggest challenge being in football. Commissioner's Cup finishes of 10th, 10th and 11th the last three years can help with those "vision changes" by leadership.

Bad form, bad taste, inappropriate, too harsh, etc., doesn't mean Jones' comments are not correct.

(FYI Western's original video is still up on Facebook, not sure how long it'll last but Looney's general comments about scheduling are worthwhile.)

[bigsig50]

"You know the team that was selected ahead of us into the playoffs, bought their way out of the MIAA. They did not want to play in the MIAA. They wanted to play a little lesser competition. That helped them get into the playoffs." - Shawn Jones

He is talking about football but I don't take it as far as you do. Kinda like how I don't see how him saying LU "bought their way out the MIAA" equates to your statement that he suggested they "'bought' a playoff spot." Hits a lot closer to home for you than it does me though.

Curious what % of the decision of LU to go to the GLVC is okay to attribute to football? You clearly take exception to 100%. If all the other sports are a wash (which I wouldn't concede), why choose the MIAA over GLVC in 2012 if not for football? Travel would have been better in the GLVC then too.

I'm saying LU ran from the challenge in the MIAA in all sports, with the biggest challenge being in football. Commissioner's Cup finishes of 10th, 10th and 11th the last three years can help with those "vision changes" by leadership.

Bad form, bad taste, inappropriate, too harsh, etc., doesn't mean Jones' comments are not correct.

(FYI Western's original video is still up on Facebook, not sure how long it'll last but Looney's general comments about scheduling are worthwhile.)

You're right it does hit a little closer for me. So admittedly I probably look at this a little more emotionally.

I'll stand by the fact that this wasn't a football decision. I'll take exception with anyone that says that thinking they know what they're talking about because it simply isn't accurate. If it were the case, then fine, so be it. I'd come to terms with it. But it wasn't.

What percentage to attribute to football? I don't know... how about 3%. That's 1 out of the 36 NCAA sanctioned sports.
Obviously that's a snarky answer to a snarky question. I will say this, Lindenwood has traditionally prided itself in being an institution that operates via a fiscally responsible philosophy. At one point, they were the only 4 year university in the nation operating completely debt free. I think they still are, but I think some others have joined them since... at least last I saw. If you knew anything about the history of the university, you'd understand why this is such a big deal around here.
I believe there were some mistakes and miscalculations made from a financial standpoint when decision to join the MIAA was made. I've heard that the cost of going D2 was severely underestimated. When the opportunity to move to the GLVC presented, it made way more sense.

Why did they choose the MIAA? I can't answer that. I don't even know if there was another option available to tell the truth. The GLVC footprint has steadily moved west over the past decade. Could that have been a difference between then and now? Idk the timeline off the top of my head, so I can't be sure.

Are they running from MIAA competition in general? Not a chance. The last few years have been rough, but they've had success is many of the MIAA sports over the past 7 years. MBB has had moderate success, WBB has won the tournament 2x. The baseball team made the college world series. Men's soccer has been nationally ranked and been in the top of the conference. Regardless, of their success, suggesting they're heading to the GLVC for easier competition in other sports doesn't make any sense. The GLVC is nationally competitive in their non football sports.

Jones's comments are based off assumptions and optics. They are incorrect. I know the lindenwood administrative culture well. This was a financial decision.

Regarding Looney's comments. I'm 100% on board. I want to see the GAC and MIAA open up their schedules because I'm a D2 fan and I enjoy those games. It's better for the brand.

[catbacker07]

You're right it does hit a little closer for me. So admittedly I probably look at this a little more emotionally.

I'll stand by the fact that this wasn't a football decision. I'll take exception with anyone that says that thinking they know what they're talking about because it simply isn't accurate. If it were the case, then fine, so be it. I'd come to terms with it. But it wasn't.

What percentage to attribute to football? I don't know... how about 3%. That's 1 out of the 36 NCAA sanctioned sports.
Obviously that's a snarky answer to a snarky question. I will say this, Lindenwood has traditionally prided itself in being an institution that operates via a fiscally responsible philosophy. At one point, they were the only 4 year university in the nation operating completely debt free. I think they still are, but I think some others have joined them since... at least last I saw. If you knew anything about the history of the university, you'd understand why this is such a big deal around here.
I believe there were some mistakes and miscalculations made from a financial standpoint when decision to join the MIAA was made. I've heard that the cost of going D2 was severely underestimated. When the opportunity to move to the GLVC presented, it made way more sense.

Why did they choose the MIAA? I can't answer that. I don't even know if there was another option available to tell the truth. The GLVC footprint has steadily moved west over the past decade. Could that have been a difference between then and now? Idk the timeline off the top of my head, so I can't be sure.

Are they running from MIAA competition in general? Not a chance. The last few years have been rough, but they've had success is many of the MIAA sports over the past 7 years. MBB has had moderate success, WBB has won the tournament 2x. The baseball team made the college world series. Men's soccer has been nationally ranked and been in the top of the conference. Regardless, of their success, suggesting they're heading to the GLVC for easier competition in other sports doesn't make any sense. The GLVC is nationally competitive in their non football sports.

Jones's comments are based off assumptions and optics. They are incorrect. I know the lindenwood administrative culture well. This was a financial decision.

Regarding Looney's comments. I'm 100% on board. I want to see the GAC and MIAA open up their schedules because I'm a D2 fan and I enjoy those games. It's better for the brand.

When did the GLVC bring football back? Seems like Lindenwood joined the MIAA a year or two before they started it up again.

[bigsig50]

When did the GLVC bring football back? Seems like Lindenwood joined the MIAA a year or two before they started it up again.

I think it was either a year before or the year of.

Edit: 2012... so same year.

[Hornetfan]

Are they running from MIAA competition in general? Not a chance. The last few years have been rough, but they've had success is many of the MIAA sports over the past 7 years. MBB has had moderate success, WBB has won the tournament 2x. The baseball team made the college world series. Men's soccer has been nationally ranked and been in the top of the conference. Regardless, of their success, suggesting they're heading to the GLVC for easier competition in other sports doesn't make any sense. The GLVC is nationally competitive in their non football sports.

Not true. Only won it once in 2018.

Bottom line is the MIAA isn't for everyone. Not saying that it is necessarily better or not but you've been to the stadiums and the arenas - I do believe more people care more deeply about their athletic teams in the MIAA than the GLVC.
When is the last time a GLVC coach got canned for going 6-5 when he had a .700 career winning percentage and a national championship?

[FlyinLion]

You're right it does hit a little closer for me. So admittedly I probably look at this a little more emotionally.

I'll stand by the fact that this wasn't a football decision. I'll take exception with anyone that says that thinking they know what they're talking about because it simply isn't accurate. If it were the case, then fine, so be it. I'd come to terms with it. But it wasn't.

What percentage to attribute to football? I don't know... how about 3%. That's 1 out of the 36 NCAA sanctioned sports.
Obviously that's a snarky answer to a snarky question. I will say this, Lindenwood has traditionally prided itself in being an institution that operates via a fiscally responsible philosophy. At one point, they were the only 4 year university in the nation operating completely debt free. I think they still are, but I think some others have joined them since... at least last I saw. If you knew anything about the history of the university, you'd understand why this is such a big deal around here.
I believe there were some mistakes and miscalculations made from a financial standpoint when decision to join the MIAA was made. I've heard that the cost of going D2 was severely underestimated. When the opportunity to move to the GLVC presented, it made way more sense.

Why did they choose the MIAA? I can't answer that. I don't even know if there was another option available to tell the truth. The GLVC footprint has steadily moved west over the past decade. Could that have been a difference between then and now? Idk the timeline off the top of my head, so I can't be sure.

Are they running from MIAA competition in general? Not a chance. The last few years have been rough, but they've had success is many of the MIAA sports over the past 7 years. MBB has had moderate success, WBB has won the tournament 2x. The baseball team made the college world series. Men's soccer has been nationally ranked and been in the top of the conference. Regardless, of their success, suggesting they're heading to the GLVC for easier competition in other sports doesn't make any sense. The GLVC is nationally competitive in their non football sports.

Jones's comments are based off assumptions and optics. They are incorrect. I know the lindenwood administrative culture well. This was a financial decision.

Regarding Looney's comments. I'm 100% on board. I want to see the GAC and MIAA open up their schedules because I'm a D2 fan and I enjoy those games. It's better for the brand.

McKendree was approved to Division II the same day as Lindenwood and then joined the GLVC. For the most part the only realignment of either conference was Truman leaving the MIAA to take Kentucky Wesleyan's spot. Northern Kentucky had already announced it was going D1.

Which is what I was getting at in my previous post, did that fiscally responsible tradition start after 2010 or so? Every financial argument now was true at the time LU's transition. GLVC was looking for football teams to be able to sponsor the sport as a conference. If they were equal, why choose the one with the higher expense? Hays didn't get any further away 7 years in, but something led to choosing the MIAA.

Was it a miscalculation of the cost of the transition to D2? Or the cost to compete in the MIAA at D2? Either way the end result was a bottom half of the conference athletic department. Maybe your counter to my position is that GLVC is just as tough and LU will be bottom half there too so might as well save some money. If so, fair enough.

NCAA sanctioned sports isn't the same as sports competing at NCAA level. As an example, men's water polo is NCAA sanctioned. LU's water polo doesn't compete at NCAA level. NCAA sports shifting conferences has little to no effect on a club sport. LU went from competing in 17 conference sports in MIAA to 23 in GLVC. That's the benefit, not sure why I'm having to explain that though.

[HookemHerd]

You're right it does hit a little closer for me. So admittedly I probably look at this a little more emotionally.

I'll stand by the fact that this wasn't a football decision. I'll take exception with anyone that says that thinking they know what they're talking about because it simply isn't accurate. If it were the case, then fine, so be it. I'd come to terms with it. But it wasn't.

What percentage to attribute to football? I don't know... how about 3%. That's 1 out of the 36 NCAA sanctioned sports.
Obviously that's a snarky answer to a snarky question. I will say this, Lindenwood has traditionally prided itself in being an institution that operates via a fiscally responsible philosophy. At one point, they were the only 4 year university in the nation operating completely debt free. I think they still are, but I think some others have joined them since... at least last I saw. If you knew anything about the history of the university, you'd understand why this is such a big deal around here.
I believe there were some mistakes and miscalculations made from a financial standpoint when decision to join the MIAA was made. I've heard that the cost of going D2 was severely underestimated. When the opportunity to move to the GLVC presented, it made way more sense.

Why did they choose the MIAA? I can't answer that. I don't even know if there was another option available to tell the truth. The GLVC footprint has steadily moved west over the past decade. Could that have been a difference between then and now? Idk the timeline off the top of my head, so I can't be sure.

Are they running from MIAA competition in general? Not a chance. The last few years have been rough, but they've had success is many of the MIAA sports over the past 7 years. MBB has had moderate success, WBB has won the tournament 2x. The baseball team made the college world series. Men's soccer has been nationally ranked and been in the top of the conference. Regardless, of their success, suggesting they're heading to the GLVC for easier competition in other sports doesn't make any sense. The GLVC is nationally competitive in their non football sports.

Jones's comments are based off assumptions and optics. They are incorrect. I know the lindenwood administrative culture well. This was a financial decision.

Regarding Looney's comments. I'm 100% on board. I want to see the GAC and MIAA open up their schedules because I'm a D2 fan and I enjoy those games. It's better for the brand.

They thought they could compete in 12. They never did, they ran the first chance they could. And the next season they got to the playoffs. You took it emotionally because you know you took the easy way out. Wish the guy stood by his comments because it is exactly what everyone is thinking.

[bigsig50]

McKendree was approved to Division II the same day as Lindenwood and then joined the GLVC. For the most part the only realignment of either conference was Truman leaving the MIAA to take Kentucky Wesleyan's spot. Northern Kentucky had already announced it was going D1.

Which is what I was getting at in my previous post, did that fiscally responsible tradition start after 2010 or so? Every financial argument now was true at the time LU's transition. GLVC was looking for football teams to be able to sponsor the sport as a conference. If they were equal, why choose the one with the higher expense? Hays didn't get any further away 7 years in, but something led to choosing the MIAA.

Was it a miscalculation of the cost of the transition to D2? Or the cost to compete in the MIAA at D2? Either way the end result was a bottom half of the conference athletic department. Maybe your counter to my position is that GLVC is just as tough and LU will be bottom half there too so might as well save some money. If so, fair enough.

NCAA sanctioned sports isn't the same as sports competing at NCAA level. As an example, men's water polo is NCAA sanctioned. LU's water polo doesn't compete at NCAA level. NCAA sports shifting conferences has little to no effect on a club sport. LU went from competing in 17 conference sports in MIAA to 23 in GLVC. That's the benefit, not sure why I'm having to explain that though.

I'm not sure why you think you need to explain it.

I get it. I'm not talking about club sports. I Didn't mention them. I'm talking about LU sports competing in the NCAA. Of which there are 25, not 36. I'm sorry, I was way off. Not sure why I was thinking that number.

It was a miscalculation in how expensive it would be to compete in D2. The MIAA happened to be more expensive. Had they gone and budgeted for the GLVC, they would've underestimated that too.

If they think they think they can afford either, why no go with the one with the more prestigious flagship sport? Is that what you're wanting to hear? Because I have no issues saying that.

I was the biggest critic externally and internally when I got word of the impending move. When I understood the reasoning, it made sense. The athletics department was making a financially responsible decision in line with the philosophy of the institution.

Sounds like you're convinced this was a football decision. I feel like I've been a pretty level headed transparent poster in my time here on the MB. But what I'm speaking on are facts, not speculation. I respect your opinion, but it probably doesn't make sense to discuss when you've made the facts up in your mind.

[bigsig50]

Not true. Only won it once in 2018.

Bottom line is the MIAA isn't for everyone. Not saying that it is necessarily better or not but you've been to the stadiums and the arenas - I do believe more people care more deeply about their athletic teams in the MIAA than the GLVC.
When is the last time a GLVC coach got canned for going 6-5 when he had a .700 career winning percentage and a national championship?

Yep my bad. I was thinking they won it last year.

Can't argue about the rest. 100% agree.

[FlyinLion]

I'm not sure why you think you need to explain it.

I get it. I'm not talking about club sports. I Didn't mention them. I'm talking about LU sports competing in the NCAA. Of which there are 25, not 36. I'm sorry, I was way off. Not sure why I was thinking that number.

It was a miscalculation in how expensive it would be to compete in D2. The MIAA happened to be more expensive. Had they gone and budgeted for the GLVC, they would've underestimated that too.

If they think they think they can afford either, why no go with the one with the more prestigious flagship sport? Is that what you're wanting to hear? Because I have no issues saying that.

I was the biggest critic externally and internally when I got word of the impending move. When I understood the reasoning, it made sense. The athletics department was making a financially responsible decision in line with the philosophy of the institution.

Sounds like you're convinced this was a football decision. I feel like I've been a pretty level headed transparent poster in my time here on the MB. But what I'm speaking on are facts, not speculation. I respect your opinion, but it probably doesn't make sense to discuss when you've made the facts up in your mind.

You admitted your were emotional and it shows with you even going so far as to take offense on behalf of those at the Live United Bowl.

Maybe I thought that because you said it wrong multiple times? And 25 still doesn't matter unless the GLVC is gonna sponsor women's ice hockey, 23 does. When you have gone with the "trust me I know the department and anyone that says otherwise is wrong" but don't know the number of teams or what they've won doesn't exactly inspire confidence that you know what you're talking about.

[GrifFan]

It seems undeniable that Lwood bought their way into lesser competition, but Shawn is right to apologize for saying that was the reason for the move. Regardless, the Lions have the opportunity to shut him and the rest of us up this weekend.

[bigsig50]

You admitted your were emotional and it shows with you even going so far as to take offense on behalf of those at the Live United Bowl.

Maybe I thought that because you said it wrong multiple times? And 25 still doesn't matter unless the GLVC is gonna sponsor women's ice hockey, 23 does. When you have gone with the "trust me I know the department and anyone that says otherwise is wrong" but don't know the number of teams or what they've won doesn't exactly inspire confidence that you know what you're talking about.

Ok.


Good luck in your bowl game.