Survival of schools (Thoughts??)

[GoCatsGo5]

I had a couple of relatives from Iowa that went to Northwest. They joked about there being so many Iowa kids at NW that it should be renamed Southwest Iowa University. Apparently, it was less expensive to go out of state to Missouri than it was to stay in state in Iowa. Any idea what the percentages are for kids at NW from Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas?

I am from Iowa and was undergrad from 1991-93 and grad school from 94-95, and this is 100% a fact for both!

[Kiss My Ass]

There is some crossover.
At Pitt it shows up in the empty, but paid for season ticket seats. The people who get called casual fans and boring. A lot of them are academic supporters of the school, and use games as more of a social outlet that also helps out athletics..

Just a side note on football season ticket holders at UCM.....I don't think there are all that many, unless most of them are sitting in the suites. As soon as individual game tickets open up for sale in August I look to see how many seats are blocked out for every game and it's not all that many.

[Predatory Primates]

See my comment above to Brandon. I don't think there's no connection, just not as substantial as some believe. I appreciate the quotes but sausage making of fundraising and the marketing material I'm sure look very different.

As Brandon said, good discussion all around but I think I'm just repeating myself at this point. It all depends on our viewpoints- those of us who love sports will be able to justify it's role in supporting a university and those who have no affinity for athletics can find reasons why it doesn't help the university. Most likely the truth is somewhere in between and depends on the individual.

There is some crossover.
At Pitt it shows up in the empty, but paid for season ticket seats. The people who get called casual fans and boring. A lot of them are academic supporters of the school, and use games as more of a social outlet that also helps out athletics..

[Shanghai Mule]

Early 70's, as students, we referred to Northwest as Southwest Iowa. It was about 1100 a year to go there. That was 550 per semester. You could work a summer job and make enough to pay for the whole year.There were a ton of Iowa students back then. Not so much now. Although I have two grandchildren there now. And we have had several student from our high school on the football team.

I was at UCM during that period and I made enough money in the summer to pay for my tuition and books for the year. I worked for a company in KC that manufactured roofing materials and I earned union wages. I loaded trucks and boxcars swinging 90 lbs rolls of roofing and 80 lbs bundles of shingles. The regular guys rode my ass for being a 'college kid'. I made it a point to bust my ass and after a couple of weeks I didn't hear anymore of the 'college kid' crap.

I had several friends from out of state. Lots from Iowa and the midwest, but also lots of kids from the east coast because of the lower cost.

[voicefromthestands]

I had a couple of relatives from Iowa that went to Northwest. They joked about there being so many Iowa kids at NW that it should be renamed Southwest Iowa University. Apparently, it was less expensive to go out of state to Missouri than it was to stay in state in Iowa. Any idea what the percentages are for kids at NW from Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas?

Early 70's, as students, we referred to Northwest as Southwest Iowa. It was about 1100 a year to go there. That was 550 per semester. You could work a summer job and make enough to pay for the whole year.There were a ton of Iowa students back then. Not so much now. Although I have two grandchildren there now. And we have had several student from our high school on the football team.

[TSU_Mike59]

I had a couple of relatives from Iowa that went to Northwest. They joked about there being so many Iowa kids at NW that it should be renamed Southwest Iowa University. Apparently, it was less expensive to go out of state to Missouri than it was to stay in state in Iowa. Any idea what the percentages are for kids at NW from Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas?

Becoming very similar at Truman, especially since on Athletics rosters because there is only D2 school in Iowa. School dynamics as a whole though shifting to more Iowa and Illinois students and not as St. Louis heavy as it once was.

[Shanghai Mule]

I had a couple of relatives from Iowa that went to Northwest. They joked about there being so many Iowa kids at NW that it should be renamed Southwest Iowa University. Apparently, it was less expensive to go out of state to Missouri than it was to stay in state in Iowa. Any idea what the percentages are for kids at NW from Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas?

[northwest missouri state]

I agree on sports being the front porch of a University. It's the most visible aspect. However, no one is donating money to a University for academic scholarships for education majors because the football team is good. They're donating to the athletic dept or football team so they can feel like they're part of the winning formula.

Not sure if it was in this thread or another but someone listed endowments for a few MIAA schools. We were behind MO Southern, emporia, Pitt, and Western I believe as well. No one in the MIAA has had as much success over the last 10 years as NW when it comes to the two most visible sports, yet we're still at the bottom of the fundraising dollars. If rising tides lift all boats we would be at or near top of that list.

obv not everybody but i can tell you with absolutely certainty that it isn't nobody either.

you're drawing conclusions that aren't necessarily true presuming to know where the school would necessarily be w/o athl success.

adding some context,

50 years ago the state elevated mowest from a 2 to 4 yr school at a time at the very least it can be argued it wasn't necessarily needed in the area. that hurt us. how bad? idk it would be impossible to measure that but i do know that we're an aggie/teachers college (ie not cranking out doctors & lawyers w/ spades of disposable income) that thereafter roughly 30 yrs ago came w/in an eyelash of closing it's doors (& it wasn't b/c the school was growing bennies on trees) & survived b/c of innovation & desperation & frankly smart people motivated to survive. i don't think it's too simplistic to say that the electronic campus initiative when no one else was doing it essentially saved us.
roughly 20 yrs ago we started racking fball titles.

& now you're downplaying the financial importance of athletic success b/c we're not leading the pack in part in a category that frankly takes decades to grow. it's the ultimate snowball effect.

[Predatory Primates]

I love sports, but I definitely see both sides of it. I mean look at Pitt. They draw in big donors for one time projects, but the students end up paying for the upkeep long term. OTOH, football brings in money from ticket buyers who will never be donors, so it opens up a 3rd stream.

As long as athletics doesn't become the focus above academics, I think it's more good than bad. Luckily, I don't think there are any D2 schools where that is anywhere close to happening.

[NWHoops]

Northwest fundraisers apparently disagree with you. The first item on the "Why Give?" page of their capital campaign site is "Championship Culture," mentioning both athletic and academic successes. Several of their donor stories mention athletics, often as a way to stay connected to the university:







Obviously it's not as simple as the school that's best at athletics also has the best enrollment and best fundraising, but there's undeniably a connection, it seems to me.

See my comment above to Brandon. I don't think there's no connection, just not as substantial as some believe. I appreciate the quotes but sausage making of fundraising and the marketing material I'm sure look very different.

As Brandon said, good discussion all around but I think I'm just repeating myself at this point. It all depends on our viewpoints- those of us who love sports will be able to justify it's role in supporting a university and those who have no affinity for athletics can find reasons why it doesn't help the university. Most likely the truth is somewhere in between and depends on the individual.

[NWHoops]

Why do you believe that's the case? What percentage who donate solely to athletics would donate to the academic side instead?

Couldn't it be argued that athletics helps maintain the connection people have with the university. I love, and I mean love, my academic department at my university, but it has never been a reason for me to return to campus. I have been on campus well over 100 times for athletic related reasons.

I'm not worried about athletics being eliminated at any of the core D2 schools. Good discussion.

In short why I believe this- it's the words I've been told directly from foundation employees at the university.

[GrifFan]

There has been a capital campaign over the last few years. That probably has grown the endowment. In talking to people who work in fundraising, one of the issues they face is donors donate to one area but won't donate to multiple areas. Hence my comment from before that athletics benefits from athletic fundraising, not the overall university. As I said, if athletics aren't there then those donors are more likely to donate to other areas on campus.

With that in mind, I have to believe few of the capital campaign contributions have been the result of athletic success. I know a big project at the university is the Ag learning center. I highly doubt individuals or companies are donating to that project because the athletics teams are successful. I think they are also working to increase academic scholarship funds. Again, doubt athletics plays a large role in that.

Northwest fundraisers apparently disagree with you. The first item on the "Why Give?" page of their capital campaign site is "Championship Culture," mentioning both athletic and academic successes. Several of their donor stories mention athletics, often as a way to stay connected to the university:







Obviously it's not as simple as the school that's best at athletics also has the best enrollment and best fundraising, but there's undeniably a connection, it seems to me.

[Brandon]

There has been a capital campaign over the last few years. That probably has grown the endowment. In talking to people who work in fundraising, one of the issues they face is donors donate to one area but won't donate to multiple areas. Hence my comment from before that athletics benefits from athletic fundraising, not the overall university. As I said, if athletics aren't there then those donors are more likely to donate to other areas on campus.

Why do you believe that's the case? What percentage who donate solely to athletics would donate to the academic side instead?

Couldn't it be argued that athletics helps maintain the connection people have with the university. I love, and I mean love, my academic department at my university, but it has never been a reason for me to return to campus. I have been on campus well over 100 times for athletic related reasons.

I'm not worried about athletics being eliminated at any of the core D2 schools. Good discussion.

[NWHoops]

Has there been an effort to grow the endowment? It seems that most of the fundraising being done has been for construction.

There has been a capital campaign over the last few years. That probably has grown the endowment. In talking to people who work in fundraising, one of the issues they face is donors donate to one area but won't donate to multiple areas. Hence my comment from before that athletics benefits from athletic fundraising, not the overall university. As I said, if athletics aren't there then those donors are more likely to donate to other areas on campus.

With that in mind, I have to believe few of the capital campaign contributions have been the result of athletic success. I know a big project at the university is the Ag learning center. I highly doubt individuals or companies are donating to that project because the athletics teams are successful. I think they are also working to increase academic scholarship funds. Again, doubt athletics plays a large role in that.

[Brandon]

I'll trust that this is accurate and if so then that rising tide of athletics that was mentioned by another poster isn't lifting the boats at NW. At best NW is 8th in the conference in endowment with the most combined success in the two most visible sports over the last 10-20 years.

Has there been an effort to grow the endowment? It seems that most of the fundraising being done has been for construction.