Tarleton to WAC

[LSC Fan]

Football is the only program that has a snowball's chance in hell of competing. Congratulations on having a travel partner of UT-RGV and countless trips to play sports juggernauts of Cal Baptist, Chicago St, CSU Bakersfield, Grand Canyon...
While I guess Tarleton gets their wish of being "D1" that is the beginning of the end of them being able to compete at anything more than a conference level in any sport not named football and it will take football a while to get to that level.

I don't know if this is going to be a success or a big bust for Tarleton. The one thing I can see as a positive is this might position them for a better conference once the tree shakes again here as we enter the next decade. All the TV contracts come up and some players in the P5 are not happy and it's going to cause realignment among them which in turn will effect the wannabees and possibly open the door for a few of those to move up to P5. This in turn will open up slots down the line like in Conference USA, Sun Belt, Mountain West, etc.

[LSC Fan]

Very exciting time for TSU. Who knows for sure what is going to happen. I know I have been giving my side of things... there is a lot of haters out there saying this is a bad move, but Lonn and this dept. have been studying this since 2004. They are doing what they believe is in the best interest for the University.

Another note: Tarleton Prez is not done with Athletic Dept. facilities upgrades (and the BOR are going to help). More later.

Anybody in Kingsville reading this? If W-Rat is correct, why isn't our group running the clown show down there doing the EXACT same thing.

Geeze this pisses me off reading this. Not that you all are getting help from the mother ship and your leadership should be congratulated for involving them. No, I ticked off ours just sits around sitting on it's thumbs and lets everything burn to ground.

[Herb Street]

I wonder when all of this shakes out if WT will look the smarter or the dumber for passing on this?!?!

im sure Herb Street has an opinion on this topic

Schools have to do what they think is in their best interest. Observations: I think it would be hard being in a conference where you have no natural rivals. When I was in college we would often jam into someone's car and go on the road to watch the team and like 8 of us sleep in a hotel room. You can do that in the regional conferences such as the SLC and LSC. But you aren't doing that in the WAC. I mean is Tarleton suddenly going to have a natural rivalry with...Dixie State?

Even the Power 5 Conferences have strong regional rivalries. In the Big 12, you can follow your team to most road games with half a tank of gas. Big 10 is a little more spread out but with the divisions and all you're still less than a day's drive to most of your division rivals. Same in the ACC, PAC12, and SEC in most cases. Sure there are schools spread far apart such as Missouri-Florida, but the SEC's bread and butter is the regional rivalries - Ole Miss/Miss State, Auburn/Alabama, Georgia/Florida, etc.

Division 1 is great unless it isn't. The WAC has been retreaded so many times it is hard to pin down what it is any more. It used to be a really solid conference. Right now it is just a name with a few misfit teams scattered to and fro. I highly doubt any of those programs would say "we are solid on the WAC and love our conference."

Would I have moved to the WAC from the LSC? I wouldn't have done it without 2 regional rivalries going with me.

[wisdomgymrat]

Anybody in Kingsville reading this? If W-Rat is correct, why isn't our group running the clown show down there doing the EXACT same thing.

Geeze this pisses me off reading this. Not that you all are getting help from the mother ship and your leadership should be congratulated for involving them. No, I ticked off ours just sits around sitting on it's thumbs and lets everything burn to ground.

[gruesome]

Schools have to do what they think is in their best interest. Observations: I think it would be hard being in a conference where you have no natural rivals. When I was in college we would often jam into someone's car and go on the road to watch the team and like 8 of us sleep in a hotel room. You can do that in the regional conferences such as the SLC and LSC. But you aren't doing that in the WAC. I mean is Tarleton suddenly going to have a natural rivalry with...Dixie State?

Even the Power 5 Conferences have strong regional rivalries. In the Big 12, you can follow your team to most road games with half a tank of gas. Big 10 is a little more spread out but with the divisions and all you're still less than a day's drive to most of your division rivals. Same in the ACC, PAC12, and SEC in most cases. Sure there are schools spread far apart such as Missouri-Florida, but the SEC's bread and butter is the regional rivalries - Ole Miss/Miss State, Auburn/Alabama, Georgia/Florida, etc.

Division 1 is great unless it isn't. The WAC has been retreaded so many times it is hard to pin down what it is any more. It used to be a really solid conference. Right now it is just a name with a few misfit teams scattered to and fro. I highly doubt any of those programs would say "we are solid on the WAC and love our conference."

Would I have moved to the WAC from the LSC? I wouldn't have done it without 2 regional rivalries going with me.

Also well said.

[ASURAM2010]

Not angry at all as it has less than 0 affect on me or my school. Is Tarleton moving up for the prestige of being a D1 school? I personally just do not see the benefits of this at all. And to the poster that made the comments about TV money, do you really think the networks are going to be lining up knocking down the door to get media rights for CSU Bakerfield v. Tarleton in basketball or in reality Tarleton v anybody? And it wouldn't be any different if I replaced Tarleton with ASU, ACU, WT, or any also ran program in the grand scheme of college athletics. These media rights are relegating those broadcasts to ESPN3 or ESPN+.

Again this move has no impact on my school (outside of scheduling) or my personal views of Tarleton, I for one just do not see the benefits and I hope that ASU does not follow suit.

[Boohaha]

Imagine Tarleton's first experience walking into and playing in the Pan American center on NMSU's senior night to a packed house of 10k plus, after getting used to 1500 at wisdom gym......

[ASURAM2010]

He'll be angry come about 10 PM Saturday.

Edit: Possibly earlier.

Nope, will not be angry about a football GAME being played by kids that ultimately doesn't affect me. Will I be rooting for ASU? Absolutely. Will I be happy if we win? Sure. Will I be angry if we lose? About the same chance as Tarleton winning anything of value in D1, nope.

My opinion is that bigger is not always better, and D1 doesn't always improve your status. If like ACU you want to pound your chest about being D1, pound away, but it ultimately doesn't change anything about who you are. Much like ASU, Tarleton is always going to be a regional university with a student population who is mostly from the region that will have some good programs for a regional university but programs that do not stack up nationally. Being D1, you may be able to raise the entrance requirements a touch to hopefully increase the level of academic prestige you have as a university, but not enough to actually move the meter when it comes to academics. Tarleton, ASU, UIW, ACU will never have the academic prestige of any of the universities that they look up to. Tarleton will never be A&M, ASU will never be Texas Tech, etc etc.

I for one am happy that ASU looked into the move and decided at the time that it was not the right move. And I would voice my displeasure with the powers that be if a decision was made to make that move. Unless I am not seeing something obvious, I don't see the benefit.

[wisdomgymrat]

Nope, will not be angry about a football GAME being played by kids that ultimately doesn't affect me. Will I be rooting for ASU? Absolutely. Will I be happy if we win? Sure. Will I be angry if we lose? About the same chance as Tarleton winning anything of value in D1, nope.

My opinion is that bigger is not always better, and D1 doesn't always improve your status. If like ACU you want to pound your chest about being D1, pound away, but it ultimately doesn't change anything about who you are. Much like ASU, Tarleton is always going to be a regional university with a student population who is mostly from the region that will have some good programs for a regional university but programs that do not stack up nationally. Being D1, you may be able to raise the entrance requirements a touch to hopefully increase the level of academic prestige you have as a university, but not enough to actually move the meter when it comes to academics. Tarleton, ASU, UIW, ACU will never have the academic prestige of any of the universities that they look up to. Tarleton will never be A&M, ASU will never be Texas Tech, etc etc.

I for one am happy that ASU looked into the move and decided at the time that it was not the right move. And I would voice my displeasure with the powers that be if a decision was made to make that move. Unless I am not seeing something obvious, I don't see the benefit.

I would agree. I have been excited about this move, but also a little worried. We are just now getting our football program back to a National contender in D2, Basketball has been there for two decades, Women's golf has always been good, while our other sports are still doing "ok." Now at the D1 level it will be tough. With the continuously increasing enrollment numbers at TSU, it seems like the right time to make the move. Guess we will wait and see.

I know one thing, I will miss this board once it is all said and done. I was a user on the old site starting back in 2003. Lived through getting our butts kicked by Darnell Henson at Northeastern in Basketball, lived through the Steve Kelley run in 2001, and etc. This board has been a great part of my memories of the LSC and I have enjoyed the conversations on here.

[ASURAM2010]

I would agree. I have been excited about this move, but also a little worried. We are just now getting our football program back to a National contender in D2, Basketball has been there for two decades, Women's golf has always been good, while our other sports are still doing "ok." Now at the D1 level it will be tough. With the continuously increasing enrollment numbers at TSU, it seems like the right time to make the move. Guess we will wait and see.

I know one thing, I will miss this board once it is all said and done. I was a user on the old site starting back in 2003. Lived through getting our butts kicked by Darnell Henson at Northeastern in Basketball, lived through the Steve Kelley run in 2001, and etc. This board has been a great part of my memories of the LSC and I have enjoyed the conversations on here.

I may have come in a little hot with voicing my concerns, but I have yet to be told about any of the "benefits" that come with moving up; and I would love to hear some of what those benefits are in theory and if they actually come to fruition for those universities that have made the move.

[wisdomgymrat]

Maybe Catatonic can divulge some benefits of moving up. ACU Men's basketball run was all over the news.

[ASURAM2010]

Maybe Catatonic can divulge some benefits of moving up. ACU Men's basketball run was all over the news.

I would agree with that on a regional level, but does it actually move the needle? Did ACU receive a substantial increase in student applications as a result of the first round romp with Kentucky? I bet one thing that did happen was Google received a lot of searches from people outside of this region to figure out who ACU was.

I guess for me, it comes down to be being a big fish in a smaller pond, or being the tiniest of fish in an ocean.

[Herb Street]

ACU's situation isn't Tarleton's. ACU had an invitation from a D1/FCS conference that had several potential natural rivalries built-in. While it is a different footprint than the LSC, it is still very much a regional conference that is Texas/Louisiana-centric. Their travel costs likely didn't double or triple - most of these schools are a bus ride. Added to that, ACU is private and wanted the panache that D1 brings. It made a lot of sense.

Tarleton State didn't get an invitation from the Southland. It got invited to a conference that has obscure members in CA, AZ, Utah, Missouri, Illinois, Washington State, and one school in New Mexico. Those schools are members because they have no better option. Cal State Bakersfield's first choice is not to be traveling to Las Cruces or Stephenville. The WAC is an uneasy alliance at best.

[Turbonium]

Every single time a program is going to move up the posters get so arrogant and think anyone saying it's a bad idea in their opinion gets called jealous or angry. Welcome to that club.

[gruesome]

I would agree. I have been excited about this move, but also a little worried. We are just now getting our football program back to a National contender in D2, Basketball has been there for two decades, Women's golf has always been good, while our other sports are still doing "ok." Now at the D1 level it will be tough. With the continuously increasing enrollment numbers at TSU, it seems like the right time to make the move. Guess we will wait and see.

I know one thing, I will miss this board once it is all said and done. I was a user on the old site starting back in 2003. Lived through getting our butts kicked by Darnell Henson at Northeastern in Basketball, lived through the Steve Kelley run in 2001, and etc. This board has been a great part of my memories of the LSC and I have enjoyed the conversations on here.

Enrollment increased from 13,011 to 13,122 from 2017 to 2018. Couldn't find 2019 numbers, but I'm sure they're out there. Granted, the purported 5-8% increase in previous years has helped boost that overall number, I've heard from several sources that enrollment for 2019 is down. Additionally, with student loans becoming an increasing burden, I think we'll see enrollment numbers flatten or decline over the next decade.

I think TSU is skating on thin ice with regards to the student population growing and supporting a D1 athletic budget. The travel alone in the WAC will cost millions and I don't think the media money (as many have already mentioned) will be anything close to supporting those increased travel costs and expenses.

In the end, it's a D1 move for D1's sake. Lonn is now officially a D1 athletic director and will be forever enshrined as the AD that brought TSU out of D2 and into D1. How that fares for the university long term is anyone's guess.