Story on CWU and WOU as only D2 programs in west

[Goods]

Written by CWU graduate and AP sports writer Tim Booth who has done a heckuva job covering sports at every level for 20+ years.

https://apnews.com/article/western-o...sneOS3-8rnqIj0

[Predatory Primates]

Nicely written, but sad.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Nicely written, but sad.

Agreed. I remember when UC-Davis was a power out west for many years.

I think its a matter of time before Western Oregon for sure goes D3 or NAIA. Make more sense to be more fully funded at the NAIA level and have tons of teams nearby within a bus trip.

[Goods]

TBH, neither CWU or WOU has the funds to compete at the Big Sky/FCS level as I can't stand that argument. CWU/state of WA/other funding has invested millions into Tomlinson Stadium (turf, lights, removed track, bigger scoreboard, overall facility improvements), but still only has 4,000 permanent seats (routinely has 4-5,000 in attendance though). CWU has invested millions into Nicholson Pavilion to make it a premier D2 facility for basketball and volleyball and a field house for pretty much every sport (I've taken a tour of it last spring during the build, it's incredible). So I can't see CWU ever considering NAIA, plus the NAIA's have a good thing going here. Maybe they don't want us and they've made it clear that they don't want to move up to D2. D3 isn't an option. They don't want us.

Many of the Cali schools had dropped football by the time I came to CWU in the mid-90s, but we still had UCDavis, Azusa, Humboldt, St. Mary's at various levels of football. And we played them all, except Menlo. We of course play paycheck games with the Big Sky almost annually.

I just worry that the LSC will continue to poach D3's in TX and not need us two schools within 2025. Even if no one but Sul Ross comes on board, I believe within two years we will see the writing on the wall with the LSC's goals.

[D2Rover]

I think you're right about only having a few years left with the LSC. Hopefully another conference steps up and makes things work once that's done.

It would be nice if College of Idaho and Eastern/Southern Oregon would come up. All have decent facilities across all sports, and are really the only geographic fit as far as NAIAs with Football.

Otherwise it feels like just running out the clock. Central I imagine would go D1 rather than NAIA or drop football, NAIA is the more reasonable option for Western Oregon. As long as there are only two teams, it's probably not going to be worth the risk for any one school to start or bring back a program.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

TBH, neither CWU or WOU has the funds to compete at the Big Sky/FCS level as I can't stand that argument. CWU/state of WA/other funding has invested millions into Tomlinson Stadium (turf, lights, removed track, bigger scoreboard, overall facility improvements), but still only has 4,000 permanent seats (routinely has 4-5,000 in attendance though). CWU has invested millions into Nicholson Pavilion to make it a premier D2 facility for basketball and volleyball and a field house for pretty much every sport (I've taken a tour of it last spring during the build, it's incredible). So I can't see CWU ever considering NAIA, plus the NAIA's have a good thing going here. Maybe they don't want us and they've made it clear that they don't want to move up to D2. D3 isn't an option. They don't want us.

Many of the Cali schools had dropped football by the time I came to CWU in the mid-90s, but we still had UCDavis, Azusa, Humboldt, St. Mary's at various levels of football. And we played them all, except Menlo. We of course play paycheck games with the Big Sky almost annually.

I just worry that the LSC will continue to poach D3's in TX and not need us two schools within 2025. Even if no one but Sul Ross comes on board, I believe within two years we will see the writing on the wall with the LSC's goals.

The writing is on the wall now.

The LSC will continue to pursue 1 or 2 more programs.

In good times its to have teams closer to home and not make the west coast trips.

In bad times its insurance against current LSC schools bolting for FCS>

[Runnin' Cat]

Written by CWU graduate and AP sports writer Tim Booth who has done a heckuva job covering sports at every level for 20+ years.

https://apnews.com/article/western-o...sneOS3-8rnqIj0

I once knew a poster named Goods....

[Runnin' Cat]

Agreed. I remember when UC-Davis was a power out west for many years.

I think its a matter of time before Western Oregon for sure goes D3 or NAIA. Make more sense to be more fully funded at the NAIA level and have tons of teams nearby within a bus trip.

There are not "tons" of NAIA football teams out west. There are two in Oregon (Eastern Oregon and Southern Oregon), one in Idaho (College of Idaho), four in Montana (Carroll, Rocky Mt, Montana Northern, Western Montana) and NONE in Washington. The bus trip to Billings would be 12+ hours. The Eastern and Southern trips are okay (4+ hours and 6+ hours), the other trips would be brutal.

As far as DIII, I cannot see that happening. While there are a lot of DII teams between WA and OR, they are all private schools. The Columbia Football Conference was a real NAIA power conference and a mix of private and public. The privates didn't like the growing force that WWU, CWU, and WOU were showing, so they took their ball and went home, all going to DIII to be with their "peers". No way they let WOU into that conference.

[Goods]

In bad times its insurance against current LSC schools bolting for FCS

Who's threatening to do that? Officially or unofficially?

[Runnin' Cat]

Who's threatening to do that? Officially or unofficially?

I think it centers around the mantra in Texas of things being bigger....

[CalifOKRA]

Who's threatening to do that? Officially or unofficially?

I don’t think any school is threatening. But there’s always the possibility of a school reclassifying, especially with the movement that’s occurred lately.

[tsull]

First off, sorry for the duplicate post below, didn't know this had already been posted.

Secondly, certainly WOU's options are limited. The case for going D2 was that the NCAA pays for national playoffs. I've heard this a million times, and now they're spending more on football trips to Texas than any of the individual track people they get to go to nationals, perhaps 1 or 2. We've had very few teams go to national playoffs, the money spent is football travel.

The problem with D3 is the private schools have a league rule not to play state schools, thus the big NAIA split a long time ago. Eestern Oregon even played D3 football in the Northwest Conference for one year but got booted because they were public. Seems crazy. I like the D2 competition, especially in men's hoops; I doubt WOU would go NAIA, I wouldn't mind that either because it has scholarships, while D3 does not.

I've been ripped on this, but I think they should go D2 independent, even today, and come up with a mixture of D2 and NAIA schools? No playoffs. Got news for people, WOU has never been to D2 playoffs and in decades of NAIA they went to the playoffs three or four times. Someone says it will hurt recruiting. What recruiting? Who are we battling for recruits? A schedule of CWU, Lincoln of California, two LSC schools, two Big Sky FCS schools, two NAIA's and another D2 somewhere would fill it. Northwest schools need to get over themselves and quit avoiding each other. But the Northwest Conference private schools would rather see local kids have fewer college football opportunities than ever play a public school.

I just don't think WOU is going back to NAIA and D3 is not a possibility. I'd go independent, but universities are like the private schools, they'd rather be right than reasonable. Humboldt cut football by a president from the east coast who was there for two or three years and went back east afterwards. Humboldt had the $$$, was getting 7K a game in football, great community event, they cut it anyway ... now they suck in every D2 sport. I don't know what CWU would do; WOU would cut football and stay D2 than try and keep it, IMO. They would think going independent would be awful, while the fans just want to go to games. No one cares about this stupid alphabet soup of D2, D3, NAIA, private vs. public. Universities would be shocked how no one knows what small college football is about. They just want to go to games.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

I think it centers around the mantra in Texas of things being bigger....

Things have changed and will continue to change.

If you would have told any LSC, MIAA, GSC, etc. poster 15 years ago that:

1) Central Oklahoma and Northeastern State would leave the LSC for the MIAA
2) ACU, IW, Tarleton, and Commerce would move to FCS and play the Big 12 boys non conference football for paydays.
3) LSC would reach out to Central Washington (legitimate), Western Oregon, and Simon Fraser to save the conference in football.

Any 1 of those 3 statements back then would have gotten you laughed off the board.

There will be more teams bolt for FCS. It may be 1 day, 1 month, 1 year, 5 years, etc. from now but that will happen and the LSC will look regionally to fill that void and to eliminate the west coast trips.

[IronOre]

First off, sorry for the duplicate post below, didn't know this had already been posted.

Secondly, certainly WOU's options are limited. The case for going D2 was that the NCAA pays for national playoffs. I've heard this a million times, and now they're spending more on football trips to Texas than any of the individual track people they get to go to nationals, perhaps 1 or 2. We've had very few teams go to national playoffs, the money spent is football travel.

The problem with D3 is the private schools have a league rule not to play state schools, thus the big NAIA split a long time ago. Eestern Oregon even played D3 football in the Northwest Conference for one year but got booted because they were public. Seems crazy. I like the D2 competition, especially in men's hoops; I doubt WOU would go NAIA, I wouldn't mind that either because it has scholarships, while D3 does not.

I've been ripped on this, but I think they should go D2 independent, even today, and come up with a mixture of D2 and NAIA schools? No playoffs. Got news for people, WOU has never been to D2 playoffs and in decades of NAIA they went to the playoffs three or four times. Someone says it will hurt recruiting. What recruiting? Who are we battling for recruits? A schedule of CWU, Lincoln of California, two LSC schools, two Big Sky FCS schools, two NAIA's and another D2 somewhere would fill it. Northwest schools need to get over themselves and quit avoiding each other. But the Northwest Conference private schools would rather see local kids have fewer college football opportunities than ever play a public school.

I just don't think WOU is going back to NAIA and D3 is not a possibility. I'd go independent, but universities are like the private schools, they'd rather be right than reasonable. Humboldt cut football by a president from the east coast who was there for two or three years and went back east afterwards. Humboldt had the $$$, was getting 7K a game in football, great community event, they cut it anyway ... now they suck in every D2 sport. I don't know what CWU would do; WOU would cut football and stay D2 than try and keep it, IMO. They would think going independent would be awful, while the fans just want to go to games. No one cares about this stupid alphabet soup of D2, D3, NAIA, private vs. public. Universities would be shocked how no one knows what small college football is about. They just want to go to games.

If the LSC boots CWU, they'd probably cut football.

[QB11111]

I hate to say it, but I’m rooting for Lincoln (CA) to get it together and possibly move to D2, this would atleast be one footprint of stability.

and (or)

North American University down in Houston to pull it together and get an LSC invite.

Wishful thinking in both cases.