Pursue Northeastern State to return to the LSC?

[JakeTAMUC]

Actually I'm not. I'm happy to continue discussing whatever part of this you would like. But $11 million to compete in D1 is pretty unreal. That's below a lot of D2 budgets.

They are 5th in SLC, just ahead of McNeese and Corpus Cristi. I’m still waiting for you to explain how more scholarships, more travel experiences, improvements to facilities made possible by the increased income does not benefit more students than if the guarantee money wasn’t made. Quote: “So $1 million from San Diego State and Florida State is going to...students?

Dude.”

[Herb Street]

They are 5th in SLC, just ahead of McNeese and Corpus Cristi. I’m still waiting for you to explain how more scholarships, more travel experiences, improvements to facilities made possible by the increased income does not benefit more students than if the guarantee money wasn’t made. Quote: “So $1 million from San Diego State and Florida State is going to...students?

Dude.”

I guess it all depends on how you define "benefit", and which/how many students.

Guarantee money is simply helping fund a grossly under-funded endeavor. A few $ million doesn't even make a dent in a legit D1 budget. These shoe-string D1 conferences aren't really D1. Surely you are aware of that. But if the school feels that it strokes some ego and adds to prestige, and the cost/benefit ratio works out, go for it. I think it's silly, if not a bit embarrassing, that supposedly highly educated leaders could arrive at that conclusion, but as you pointed out, they do it all the time.

There are really only 20-ish programs in the US that can consistently compete on a national basis in D1, and another 20-30 that might do so once in a while, if all the stars line up just right. That list hasn't changed much over the last 50 years. That's your P4 programs plus Notre Dame, and not all of even those. Everyone else is playing small college ball, regardless of how it is labeled by you, me, or the NCAA.

Finally, that's no slight to Commerce. Good school, good reputation.

[the Northeasterner]

Nothing much is going to happen with Northeast in this first year it's going to be pretty much mainly miaa. But I bet that there will be a LSC in the 25. Schedule. Bigger developments to watch what's going to happen in the Gulf South. With West Georgia leaving and the a couple affiliated schools leaving to go join the Carolina's conference in 25 you're going to see the Gulf South get desperate. Do they raid the Great American? If the Arkansas schools get rated then you'll see the Oklahoma schools free

[Rockofwesties]

If WT truly believes that D2 is where they belong, they need to try to join the MIAA. That’s what Central Oklahoma did to benefit athletes and academics. WTs peers are miaa schools and not Sul Ross.

[Bisonfan from FLA]

Nothing much is going to happen with Northeast in this first year it's going to be pretty much mainly miaa. But I bet that there will be a LSC in the 25. Schedule. Bigger developments to watch what's going to happen in the Gulf South. With West Georgia leaving and the a couple affiliated schools leaving to go join the Carolina's conference in 25 you're going to see the Gulf South get desperate. Do they raid the Great American? If the Arkansas schools get rated then you'll see the Oklahoma schools free

Interesting that you would view a depleted GSC as having the upperhand to raid the Great American Conference (GAC), pulling Arkansas schools away and leaving the Oklahoma schools to be left out. Reality is that the GAC would pull in the GSC teams.

History lesson: it was the Arkansas schools that left the GSC and together with the Oklahoma schools created the GAC. The GAC teams are not going to splinter off to create somethig with a few leftover GSC teams. Delta State and Mississippi College could more easily slide in with the GAC. West Alabama and West Florida could as well but might work out something with the Georgia/South Carolina teams.

[Herb Street]

If WT truly believes that D2 is where they belong, they need to try to join the MIAA. That’s what Central Oklahoma did to benefit athletes and academics. WTs peers are miaa schools and not Sul Ross.

Moving to a conference with no in-state games is about as smart as moving to D1. It is sad to see quality schools leave the LSC, but there is still a lot of quality in the conference. There will come a day when some shoe string D1 programs decide D2 makes more sense. Things cycle. Sul Ross? Yeah, they will have a tough go, but that's nothing new for them. I suspect they are moving to D2 the same reason a Texas A&M Commerce moved to D1 - they know full well they won't be competitive, but it might offer a bit more panache. Who knows.

In true D1, there are only two schools in Texas - Texas and A&M - that have the jack to be nationally relevant a lot of the time in football, basketball, and volleyball - the main revenue sports. A few after them - Tech, Houston, Baylor, and TCU, have the jack to be nationally relevant once in a while in a sport. After that, there are a few that *think* they might could have a special year in some sport to be relevant, but the odds are extremely remote. UTSA, North Texas, Rice. Then below that, you have the true dreamers. Heck I don't even know if they dream. ACU, Tarleton, Commerce, UIW, Lamar. These are the programs that are content to get their brains humped out for that once every decade deal where one of them makes the basketball tournament of 66, and that once every three decades deal where they win the first game.

I haven't been to a WT, Angelo, or Midwestern game in many moons, but I'm going to guess they have same/similar fan support as the dreamers.

[the Northeasterner]

I'm not saying they would. I'm just saying it's possibility . And it could be something where they go off on their own add Mississippi college Delta State Christian brothers and that one in Jackson ( maybe west Alabama)and that's a 10 team 8 football conference with minimumm travel

[Rockofwesties]

I guess it all depends on how you define "benefit", and which/how many students.

Guarantee money is simply helping fund a grossly under-funded endeavor. A few $ million doesn't even make a dent in a legit D1 budget. These shoe-string D1 conferences aren't really D1. Surely you are aware of that. But if the school feels that it strokes some ego and adds to prestige, and the cost/benefit ratio works out, go for it. I think it's silly, if not a bit embarrassing, that supposedly highly educated leaders could arrive at that conclusion, but as you pointed out, they do it all the time.

There are really only 20-ish programs in the US that can consistently compete on a national basis in D1, and another 20-30 that might do so once in a while, if all the stars line up just right. That list hasn't changed much over the last 50 years. That's your P4 programs plus Notre Dame, and not all of even those. Everyone else is playing small college ball, regardless of how it is labeled by you, me, or the NCAA.

Finally, that's no slight to Commerce. Good school, good reputation.

Most of the interesting college rivalries are interstate not intrastate . Stability is the most important factor for college athletics today. The LSC is unstable. I have heard that UTPB has a 5 year plan to go D1. Geography helps WT in that their campus is close to MIAA and Rocky Mountain area.

[crixus]

Just catching up on the holiday news.

MIAA Approves Northeastern State's Request to Play as an Independent Institution in Football - Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association (themiaa.com)

Looks like last month the MIAA and Northeastern State agreed to some sort of probationary status where NSU can play football as an independent for the 2024 and 2025 season.

I know this is adding (returning) another weak team to the conference but it does bolster the membership and is insurance if current LSC members decide to make the D1 plunge and/or Central Washington has to make a negative football move with their LSC membership.

They cant be any worse than Sul Ross and Western New Mexico.

Thoughts?

I'm offended by your WNMU crack, even though it's true. LOL But seriously, down programs have turned around before...and they will again. Ebb and flow baby.

[Techster88]

They are 5th in SLC, just ahead of McNeese and Corpus Cristi. I’m still waiting for you to explain how more scholarships, more travel experiences, improvements to facilities made possible by the increased income does not benefit more students than if the guarantee money wasn’t made. Quote: “So $1 million from San Diego State and Florida State is going to...students?

Dude.”

Jake you are spot on. It’s all about the money trail. Herb is looking at from a fan’s standpoint on being competitive at your said level nothing else relevant to his argument.

As a former ETSU alum when is the football program going to be competitive? Watching how Tarleton went through transition and how Commerce is doing is sickening.

Some will point out their schedule but from I saw this year especially that awful Houston Christian game I don’t believe Commerce could compete with better D2 teams at the moment. HC D hiring looks like a disaster from the outside looking in.

[Goods]

The LSC is unstable. I have heard that UTPB has a 5 year plan to go D1. Geography helps WT in that their campus is close to MIAA and Rocky Mountain area.

Does that plan include having your own stadium? Does every current FCS program have its own stadium?

[crixus]

I'm for anything that will help the Lone Star Conference.

[AngeloFan]

Does that plan include having your own stadium? Does every current FCS program have its own stadium?

I remember when ASU did their first audit for going D1 having our own stadium was a top priority.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

If WT truly believes that D2 is where they belong, they need to try to join the MIAA. That’s what Central Oklahoma did to benefit athletes and academics. WTs peers are miaa schools and not Sul Ross.

10 years ago this would be great advice.

Football is still king and WT is now a common peasant that would be battling with Washburn and Missouri Southern to finish in the top half of the MIAA conference.

Like Herb said if you think WT's attendance is in the crapper now, try selling a product that includes playing a 98% schedule of non-Texas teams that no one outside of the D2 die hards know nothing about.

The rest of the sports should be able to compete since they compete regionally and nationally well.

I will be as politically correct as I can with my next comments below.

The old school old timers already well in retirement want WT to stay D2 to compete for "other" sports championships and call the shots with scholarship donations.

The younger group will not pay attention and continue to lose interest even more and not care that WT is D2 and have no clue that Angelo State and Colorado Mines are good football teams to play.

Heck most " Young current WT Football Fans" know very little about past rivalries with the recent schools that left, just the wagon wheel game.

Unfortunately last but not least having a president that has zero interest in growing the university beyond regionally doesnt help your cause.

I compare the WT main players on all sides to the politicians that have been in congress for over 40 years.

Until they move on one way or another then expect zero changes and status quo for WT to be content in D2 with an average football team and be competitive in all other sports.

Near term to realistically believe or dream in anything else is a fantasy for now.

[Herb Street]

10 years ago this would be great advice.

Football is still king and WT is now a common peasant that would be battling with Washburn and Missouri Southern to finish in the top half of the MIAA conference.

Like Herb said if you think WT's attendance is in the crapper now, try selling a product that includes playing a 98% schedule of non-Texas teams that no one outside of the D2 die hards know nothing about.

The rest of the sports should be able to compete since they compete regionally and nationally well.

I will be as politically correct as I can with my next comments below.

The old school old timers already well in retirement want WT to stay D2 to compete for "other" sports championships and call the shots with scholarship donations.

The younger group will not pay attention and continue to lose interest even more and not care that WT is D2 and have no clue that Angelo State and Colorado Mines are good football teams to play.

Heck most " Young current WT Football Fans" know very little about past rivalries with the recent schools that left, just the wagon wheel game.

Unfortunately last but not least having a president that has zero interest in growing the university beyond regionally doesnt help your cause.

I compare the WT main players on all sides to the politicians that have been in congress for over 40 years.

Until they move on one way or another then expect zero changes and status quo for WT to be content in D2 with an average football team and be competitive in all other sports.

Near term to realistically believe or dream in anything else is a fantasy for now.

Certainly WT has had average football outings going back aways. What is their attendance like these days? It seems they have always had far greater fan support than most other divisions 2 (or even FCS) programs, even when they are down. Most programs would give a nut to have those facilities.\They've got pretty strong support which is very nice.