The Wacky WAC

[Buffan78]

CWU would be on par budget wise with UNC in the Big Sky and a bit behind EWU with bottom tier facilities for the Big Sky. IF (Big if) were to move up it would be the Big Sky. Montana and Montana State have athletic budgets nearly 3x CWU's with incredibly better facilities.

Not a chance...

West Texas could be a possible fit but current President doesnt like sports.

[MooseLodge]

West Texas could be a possible fit but current President doesnt like sports.

WT would need another $4-5 million a year for travel alone.

[Techster88]

Help me out here someone. For years I heard from WT posters how they had more $$ to build and fund athletics in the LSC than any other rival. Yet other LSC schools bolted to FCS.

So, my question is (a former ETSU/TAMUC ) how does Commerce afford it after all they were not in as good of a financial position as WT according to those on here?


I don’t believe it’s financial at all. JMHO

[MooseLodge]

Help me out here someone. For years I heard from WT posters how they had more $$ to build and fund athletics in the LSC than any other rival. Yet other LSC schools bolted to FCS.

So, my question is (a former ETSU/TAMUC ) how does Commerce afford it after all they were not in as good of a financial position as WT according to those on here?


I don’t believe it’s financial at all. JMHO

Commerce is probably in a similar position as WT financially, perhaps even a bit stronger with several thousand more students. Here is how they are affording D1:

2023

Sport W/L

Football 1-9
Basketball 13-20
W Basketball 15-16
Volleyball 9-23
Softball 9-45 (2024)
Baseball no team
Soccer no team
W. Soccer 9-7-3


Commerce is only sponsoring 6 team sports. Their combined W/L in all team sports is 46-115-3. You could fit their football and basketball crowds into a Circle K.

You can't be D1 with a D2 budget. And you can't have even a small-ish D1 budget at a state school unless you're pushing 15K undergrad. Not enough students to tax. Even then, you're small potatoes.

[tsull]

Commerce is probably in a similar position as WT financially, perhaps even a bit stronger with several thousand more students. Here is how they are affording D1:

2023

Sport W/L

Football 1-9
Basketball 13-20
W Basketball 15-16
Volleyball 9-23
Softball 9-45 (2024)
Baseball no team
Soccer no team
W. Soccer 9-7-3


Commerce is only sponsoring 6 team sports. Their combined W/L in all team sports is 46-115-3. You could fit their football and basketball crowds into a Circle K.

You can't be D1 with a D2 budget. And you can't have even a small-ish D1 budget at a state school unless you're pushing 15K undergrad. Not enough students to tax. Even then, you're small potatoes.

The entire world is "Well, see what Gonzaga did" and "What about Boise State?" Not everyone can do that. The fact that they hardly have any sports is insane. I wish the NCAA -- which has no rules anymore -- could send teams down for sucking. It would force college administrations to support sports at the appropriate levels. There's too many D1annabees, but state taxpayers don't pay attention so schools can do these things. Just read where Rutgers has had to "borrow" $300M from the state to stay solvent in the Big 10.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Commerce is probably in a similar position as WT financially, perhaps even a bit stronger with several thousand more students. Here is how they are affording D1:

2023

Sport W/L

Football 1-9
Basketball 13-20
W Basketball 15-16
Volleyball 9-23
Softball 9-45 (2024)
Baseball no team
Soccer no team
W. Soccer 9-7-3


Commerce is only sponsoring 6 team sports. Their combined W/L in all team sports is 46-115-3. You could fit their football and basketball crowds into a Circle K.

You can't be D1 with a D2 budget. And you can't have even a small-ish D1 budget at a state school unless you're pushing 15K undergrad. Not enough students to tax. Even then, you're small potatoes.

Easy to cherry pick one former LSC school barely in transition and beat them down.

Lets look at Tarleton 2023:

Football: 8-3
Men's Basketball: 25-10
Men's Baseball 26-26 (Likely to finish above .500, was several games above .500 until a recent losing streak).
Women's Volleyball: 16-15
Women's Tennis: 17-4

Incarnate Word's football team and ACU's basketball teams have made runs in the NCAA tournaments.

It can be done but Commerce's athletic program appears to be in a mess. Jake and LionFan could definitely shed more light than I can.

JakeTAMUC
LionFan

[MooseLodge]

Easy to cherry pick one former LSC school barely in transition and beat them down.

Lets look at Tarleton 2023:

Football: 8-3
Men's Basketball: 25-10
Men's Baseball 26-26 (Likely to finish above .500, was several games above .500 until a recent losing streak).
Women's Volleyball: 16-15
Women's Tennis: 17-4

Incarnate Word's football team and ACU's basketball teams have made runs in the NCAA tournaments.


JakeTAMUC
LionFan

Cherry picking?

Tarleton has 70 percent higher undergraduate enrollment than WT. If WT had that enrollment, they'd have the cash to be low D1. Like Tarleton, they'd be pretenders.

IWU and ACU are private schools. They can, and do, tax students several thousand per year to do whatever they want. Apples and oranges. And winning a first-round game in the NCAA every decade or two isn't "making a run in the NCAA tournaments."

[JakeTAMUC]

Easy to cherry pick one former LSC school barely in transition and beat them down.

Lets look at Tarleton 2023:

Football: 8-3
Men's Basketball: 25-10
Men's Baseball 26-26 (Likely to finish above .500, was several games above .500 until a recent losing streak).
Women's Volleyball: 16-15
Women's Tennis: 17-4

Incarnate Word's football team and ACU's basketball teams have made runs in the NCAA tournaments.

It can be done but Commerce's athletic program appears to be in a mess. Jake and LionFan could definitely shed more light than I can.

JakeTAMUC
LionFan

Its a mess, but I think we had first or second year coaches in 5 sports and a brand new AD who are building from scratch at a D1 level and in the middle of basically a non-competitive 4 year transition process. The priority here now is more to build stability among the teams, create a new culture, and increase funding (advertising, gifting, NIL, etc). Winning would be nice, but its unlikely to happen for at least another 3 or 4 years. In the meantime, though, I do have to say that the experiences for the student athletes has increased tremendously. The home facilities are improving and playing at places like Rupp Arena, The Pit, Reed Arena, at Oklahoma softball, is a great experience.

Also pops forgot to mention the track, cross country, and golf teams.

[gr8ness97]

Its a mess, but I think we had first or second year coaches in 5 sports and a brand new AD who are building from scratch at a D1 level and in the middle of basically a non-competitive 4 year transition process. The priority here now is more to build stability among the teams, create a new culture, and increase funding (advertising, gifting, NIL, etc). Winning would be nice, but its unlikely to happen for at least another 3 or 4 years. In the meantime, though, I do have to say that the experiences for the student athletes has increased tremendously. The home facilities are improving and playing at places like Rupp Arena, The Pit, Reed Arena, at Oklahoma softball, is a great experience.

Also pops forgot to mention the track, cross country, and golf teams.

I'd also add that Commerce has had some one-off wins against big programs in basketball. They do student engagement really well IMO (better than WT does), and I agree - it seems like it has improved since jumping to D1.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Cherry picking?

Tarleton has 70 percent higher undergraduate enrollment than WT. If WT had that enrollment, they'd have the cash to be low D1. Like Tarleton, they'd be pretenders.

IWU and ACU are private schools. They can, and do, tax students several thousand per year to do whatever they want. Apples and oranges. And winning a first-round game in the NCAA every decade or two isn't "making a run in the NCAA tournaments."

Ok you are making my point too.

You come in here all high and mighty and accusing WT fans/posters of whining and not supporting the program.

We literally keep telling you the university president doesnt give jack $hit about enrollment numbers and sports.

He isnt there for most sporting events and he literally tells underclassmen to check out the junior colleges in the panhandle first and then get back to him/WT in a couple of years.

Before that WT enrollment was steadily growing especially during the football prime when 20,000+ were filling the old stadium and road games were being televised.

So tell us again how to let our voices be known?

I know that some alumni have even try contacting Sharp in College Station about it and they seem to not have interest in the issues either.

Point blank Tarleton has the university president engaged in increasing enrollment and funding to become and sustain D1.

[Techster88]

Cherry picking?

Tarleton has 70 percent higher undergraduate enrollment than WT. If WT had that enrollment, they'd have the cash to be low D1. Like Tarleton, they'd be pretenders.

IWU and ACU are private schools. They can, and do, tax students several thousand per year to do whatever they want. Apples and oranges. And winning a first-round game in the NCAA every decade or two isn't "making a run in the NCAA tournaments."

Yes, but all I have heard from Tarleton is how jumping to D1 has increased their enrollment and brought excitement to the school. I don't know if that is the case but something is driving the growth when I look at their growth statistics and Commerce as well to a lesser extent.

So, my point is if WT is in contraction which it clearly is something needs to happen to turn the ship back in the right direction.

In the same time period WT has contracted Texas Tech is adding enrollment. Its not the area. The onus is clearly on what the leadership is doing at WT.

IF IT AINT WORKING and clearly its not you might look to try to change things up. Dressing up a pig in their finest clothes and put lipstick on her doesn't change the pig just the dressing.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

[Techster88]

Its a mess, but I think we had first or second year coaches in 5 sports and a brand new AD who are building from scratch at a D1 level and in the middle of basically a non-competitive 4 year transition process. The priority here now is more to build stability among the teams, create a new culture, and increase funding (advertising, gifting, NIL, etc). Winning would be nice, but its unlikely to happen for at least another 3 or 4 years. In the meantime, though, I do have to say that the experiences for the student athletes has increased tremendously. The home facilities are improving and playing at places like Rupp Arena, The Pit, Reed Arena, at Oklahoma softball, is a great experience.

Also pops forgot to mention the track, cross country, and golf teams.

Wait? Jake, are you saying MOOSELODGE is ASUPOPS?

[WT_TKW]

Wait? Jake, are you saying MOOSELODGE is ASUPOPS?

I think Jake was suggesting Buffalo/Islander is Pops.

It seems Pops has left us for the time being. Knowing his love for excessive punctuation, I don't believe he is active here, even under another name.

Although I sometimes disagree with Pops, I really like him. I hope he returns closer to football season.

[Herb Street]

Yes, but all I have heard from Tarleton is how jumping to D1 has increased their enrollment and brought excitement to the school. I don't know if that is the case but something is driving the growth when I look at their growth statistics and Commerce as well to a lesser extent.

So, my point is if WT is in contraction which it clearly is something needs to happen to turn the ship back in the right direction.

In the same time period WT has contracted Texas Tech is adding enrollment. Its not the area. The onus is clearly on what the leadership is doing at WT.

IF IT AINT WORKING and clearly its not you might look to try to change things up. Dressing up a pig in their finest clothes and put lipstick on her doesn't change the pig just the dressing.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Actually that’s not the definition of insanity. No question that WT’s enrollment trend is concerning. Tarleton likely isn’t growing be user id their sports teams. It’s an hour from the metroplex and that’s where most of their growth is coming from.

[Predatory Primates]

Yes, but all I have heard from Tarleton is how jumping to D1 has increased their enrollment and brought excitement to the school. I don't know if that is the case but something is driving the growth when I look at their growth statistics and Commerce as well to a lesser extent.

So, my point is if WT is in contraction which it clearly is something needs to happen to turn the ship back in the right direction.

In the same time period WT has contracted Texas Tech is adding enrollment. Its not the area. The onus is clearly on what the leadership is doing at WT.

IF IT AINT WORKING and clearly its not you might look to try to change things up. Dressing up a pig in their finest clothes and put lipstick on her doesn't change the pig just the dressing.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

It's a big gamble right now with enrollments shrinking nationwide, and schools having priced themselves beyond their usefulness.