West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

So you seem to be implying that there is just nothing we can do to improve beyond our current level. That we are an at best Elite 8 team that can't get the players to push us over the top. MAYBE occasionally we get hot at the right time or our seeding is "right" or maybe Nova has injuries and then maybe we have a chance, but realistically, beyond luck, we just can't compete.

My point is that we have several elite 3 point shooters on the team.

There is nothing that 200k per year in nil and recruiting budget or moving campus to Naples, FL will not ameliorate. We cannot even afford to fly euro players here on a recruiting visit.

Athletic, elite 3 point shooters are at the right edge of the bell curve. We would need to expand to a national/international recruiting footprint.
That takes massive $. There are not enough fans that are willing and able to spend the $ to support the program at such a level.

[boatcapt]

Regarding 3 pt shooters. 40% is considered elite. When comparing past teams, it is important to note that the 3pt line distance has increased in recent years.

This year there were only 40 persons shooting >=40% among 304 teams, who also met the required minimum number of attempts.
We are fortunate to have Dragas (46.3%) and Tinsley (44.7%) as freshmen. Had they met the number of attempts, they would have ranked 3rd and 12th, respectively, in 3pt shooting % in D2. The minimum number of attempts seems to assume that there are only 1 or 2 designated 3pt shooters on a team that take most of the attempts. That puts wlu at a disadvantage in terms of individual ranking.

The players that also have the prerequisite athletic ability to play and defend at wlu do not grow on trees.
As we saw against CSDH, some of our reserves who were great shooters were exposed defensively by CSDH.

So you seem to be implying that there is just nothing we can do to improve beyond our current level. That we are an at best Elite 8 team that can't get the players to push us over the top. MAYBE occasionally we get hot at the right time or our seeding is "right" or maybe Nova has injuries and then maybe we have a chance, but realistically, beyond luck, we just can't compete.

[Columbuseer]

Regarding 3 pt shooters. 40% is considered elite. When comparing past teams, it is important to note that the 3pt line distance has increased in recent years.

This year there were only 40 persons shooting >=40% among 304 teams, who also met the required minimum number of attempts.
We are fortunate to have Dragas (46.3%) and Tinsley (44.7%) as freshmen. Had they met the number of attempts, they would have ranked 3rd and 12th, respectively, in 3pt shooting % in D2. The minimum number of attempts seems to assume that there are only 1 or 2 designated 3pt shooters on a team that take most of the attempts. That puts wlu at a disadvantage in terms of individual ranking.

The players that also have the prerequisite athletic ability to play and defend at wlu do not grow on trees.
As we saw against CSDH, some of our reserves who were great shooters were exposed defensively by CSDH.

[boatcapt]

I have a different perspective. Wlu was 36.92% (44th) in 3fg% out of 304 teams while Nova se was 36.33% (60th). Wlu started the season in a 3pt shooting slump. Or the average would have been higher.

Dragas, Tinsley, Autrey and Harper are great 3 point shooters.
I agree that we did not have a Butler, Bolon or Bonifant. But those were all pre nil. If you want that person, better open up the checkbook. I looked at the day of giving on march 26 at 6 pm for men's basketball. It was pitiful given the success of the team, about $3000. The rumor is Nova SE pays $25k per player.

In the elite 8 one may encounter one or more teams with at least 3 legit D1 players. Those teams are hard to beat regardless of the system. Imho, that team was Cal DH. Had just a few of our inside shots fallen in the second half, we would have defeated them, even without a go-to guy. Nova se was lucky to beat them, even with their nil funding and 3 players out of the 12 d2 players on the Bevo Francis list.

What you call a slump to start the season, I call a hot strike that closed the season that artificial bumped our 3pt percentage up. Over the final eight games of the season (From the second Farimont game through the final game of the MEC Tourney) WLU shot .417 from three. In the four games of the NCAA, WLU shot .333 from three. AND we compounded that by taking about eight fewer 3pt shots!

WLU had four .400+ three point shooters (actually two if you throw out Woodard who took 10 three point tries and Kisner who took 26) this year. Last year we had two, year before four, year before that four, and four the year before that so it seems we need to focus more attention on 3pt shooting ability and maybe a bit less on "athletic ability."

If Ben can't find .400 three point shooters, then he needs to figure out how to build them over the summer...Maybe put on a series of "shooters clinics." My understanding is that Coaches can put on clinics within 100 miles of their college and not run afoul of the NCAA. 100 miles covers quite a number of traditional WLU recruiting hot spots. OR, just maybe focus a little coaching love on Garson Kisner. Yea, he only took 26 three point shots last year, but he did drain them at a +.400 clip. Times I saw him he didn't look overwhelmed in the moment. At 6'7" I don't know that I want him bring the ball up but other than that, he seemed comfortable all over the court. Get him to take 75 or 80 threes next season and even if his shooting "dips" 30 points to the .390 range, I'd be very happy.

Some quick back of the napkin math...Over the last 14 seasons, WLU teams that shot below .380 from three averaged losing in the 1.8th "Round" (rounded up to losing in the Second Round) while WLU teams that shot above .380 from three averaged losing in "Round" 3.6 (Round up to the 4th game or the Elite 8 game). Absent this years .366 shooting Toppers going to the Elite 8, sub-.380 shooting Topper teams average losing in the first round of the NCAA Tourney.

[Columbuseer]

Well, we can all agree that the current roster needs some adjustments. They have no knock down 3 point shooter or a player that you can give the ball to and say get me a bucket. Yes, basketball is a team sport, but to win a national title you need to have at least 1 player who can create his own shot at any given moment, WL doesn't have that guy.

I have a different perspective. Wlu was 36.92% (44th) in 3fg% out of 304 teams while Nova se was 36.33% (60th). Wlu started the season in a 3pt shooting slump. Or the average would have been higher.

Dragas, Tinsley, Autrey and Harper are great 3 point shooters.
I agree that we did not have a Butler, Bolon or Bonifant. But those were all pre nil. If you want that person, better open up the checkbook. I looked at the day of giving on march 26 at 6 pm for men's basketball. It was pitiful given the success of the team, about $3000. The rumor is Nova SE pays $25k per player.

In the elite 8 one may encounter one or more teams with at least 3 legit D1 players. Those teams are hard to beat regardless of the system. Imho, that team was Cal DH. Had just a few of our inside shots fallen in the second half, we would have defeated them, even without a go-to guy. Nova se was lucky to beat them, even with their nil funding and 3 players out of the 12 d2 players on the Bevo Francis list.

[boatcapt]

Even with only playing 7-8 guys total, Crutch is still running the system though. You're correct, however, that he has better shooters than WLU and Gannon did. But he's still running the system.. just with less guys. The system isn't so much about having 10 guys to rotate every 3 minutes.. but playing the fast paced, run and gun offense and the chaotic full court press.

There is the ideal version of the System and then changes and variations forced on a coach by personnel. There are also variations in when players are getting minutes in a game and when they aren't...Are players getting the predominance of their minutes early in games and in garbage time or are they getting minutes when the game is on the line?

There is also a difference between what the stat line tells you about a team and what you see on the court. From a statistic standpoint, this years WLU team was consistent with pratty much every WLU team over the last 10 years. But when you watch the games, it was pretty easy to see that something was "missing." Sure, the ultimate "stat," wins and losses, was really good and we went to the Elite 8 which put's this team in the top 10 of WLU teams...But from game 1 it just never seemed quite "right." I said previously that this years team seemed like a collection of 3's...the player that you get production from but they aren't the star or go-to guy when you need a bucket. Occasionally, they will have a big game but typically they get you about 10-12 points per game, a few rebounds and steals and play compatent defense.

[bballfan03]

To me, run and gun is Grinnell.
Nova se took great shots, with 14 assist on 19 made shots. They play fast but commit few turnovers per possession

Grinnell is just take 1000 shots lol I just meant run and gun in the sense you're still putting up more shots than most teams would. Nova SE is very disciplined which is where GU and WLU were lacking this year.

[TopperNation]

Well, we can all agree that the current roster needs some adjustments. They have no knock down 3 point shooter or a player that you can give the ball to and say get me a bucket. Yes, basketball is a team sport, but to win a national title you need to have at least 1 player who can create his own shot at any given moment, WL doesn't have that guy.

[Columbuseer]

Even with only playing 7-8 guys total, Crutch is still running the system though. You're correct, however, that he has better shooters than WLU and Gannon did. But he's still running the system.. just with less guys. The system isn't so much about having 10 guys to rotate every 3 minutes.. but playing the fast paced, run and gun offense and the chaotic full court press.

To me, run and gun is Grinnell.
Nova se took great shots, with 14 assist on 19 made shots. They play fast but commit few turnovers per possession

[bballfan03]

West Lib's system fails them again, as they don't have that 1 guy to get you a bucket when you need it. 18-0 and 23-2 runs in an elite 8 game is unheard of. I believe many of us on this board have said this for years, but I for one no longer care about 6 or 7 guys averaging 10+ points a game. Give me the guy that averages 22 plus points a game that can also get you a bucket when you need it and have 2 or 3 others at 9 points a game. Yes, West Liberty can win 25-30 games in the regular season and maybe win a conference regular season title, but the standard has been raised and now it's time to recruit or bring guys in who can flat out score. I had enough of the WL motto "we recruit H.S. winners", I'll take a H.S. guy who hasn't won much but can average 20 points a game on the Hilltop, lol. See you guys next season when the opening will be how good the guys look in open gym and how we brought in a guy who won 3 state titles, is a winner, and will average 13 points per game, haha.

This "system" guys thing doesn't work, you don't believe me look at Nova with Crutch. He went and got guys who can get you a bucket when the "system" breaks down! I've actually spoken to Crutch and he's made mention to this.

Even with only playing 7-8 guys total, Crutch is still running the system though. You're correct, however, that he has better shooters than WLU and Gannon did. But he's still running the system.. just with less guys. The system isn't so much about having 10 guys to rotate every 3 minutes.. but playing the fast paced, run and gun offense and the chaotic full court press.

[boatcapt]

Two numbers tell you everything you need to know about this game...26 and 15. Both are death for WLU and have happened all to often this year. 26% from 3 and 15 points from WLUs bench. WLU just isn't going to win in the Tourney with numbers like that. Yes we can get through a regular season game against lesser opponents on heart and moxy alone, but eventually as the quality of opponents increases, we fail.

Ben needs to take a deep dive on this team and make some hard choices on who should come back. Maybe we need to ditch an "athlete" or two for a sharp shooter who does nothing but drain 3's. We seem to have an abundance of players who can float to the rim...what we need are a couple of guys who "just" drain 3s

[Scrub]

We can claim to be disappointed in the system, or the players in the system, or winning only 30 games a year, or whatever. But let's make sure to get a few things straight:

1. The Toros came out and earned this win. Hats off to the CSUDH guys for not folding up the tents when down 17 in the second half. They really turned up the defense (which is the calling card of their system), and they executed their game plan in the second half better than WLU did. Period. Give credit where it's due--great game by the Toros. Great halftime adjustment.

2. Most of us have said all year that this hasn't been a vintage WLU team. WLU historically HAS had the guy who can get you 22 points when the system breaks (remember Butler, Bolon, Monteroso, Cedric Harris, Bonifant, Alex Falk, Corey Pelle, etc., etc., etc.?). This edition just didn't have that guy. Never did, and we kinda knew it all year long. So don't pretend that Howlett doesn't want that guy. He wants that guy. He just didn't get that guy this year. But for a sort of "island of misfit toys" edition of WLU basketball, I'd say an Elite 8 appearance is a pretty dang good result.

3. And, yes, I've heard some talk--as Columbus alluded to above--that we have lost out on recruits to Nova (no secret Ben & Crutch are chasing the same kind of guy) because Nova has deep pockets (due to a very successful med school) and can pony up NIL money for D2 players. It's also no secret that the beach is a heck of a lot easier to recruit than a hilltop in West Virginia where the nearest gas station is 12 miles away. But for a program that is fighting against all of those recruiting challenges, I'm pretty pleased with the consistent results and am proud to be a Hilltopper fan (even on a day they blow a big lead and lose).

[Funny side note about WLU's location: I was talking to a Fayetteville fan during the Regionals last week, and his remark was this: "The students here must all get straight A's." I didn't really follow the assertion, so I said "Why do you say that?" And his answer was, "Because there sure as hell isn't anything better to do up here than just study!"]

[Columbuseer]

West Lib's system fails them again, as they don't have that 1 guy to get you a bucket when you need it. 18-0 and 23-2 runs in an elite 8 game is unheard of. I believe many of us on this board have said this for years, but I for one no longer care about 6 or 7 guys averaging 10+ points a game. Give me the guy that averages 22 plus points a game that can also get you a bucket when you need it and have 2 or 3 others at 9 points a game. Yes, West Liberty can win 25-30 games in the regular season and maybe win a conference regular season title, but the standard has been raised and now it's time to recruit or bring guys in who can flat out score. I had enough of the WL motto "we recruit H.S. winners", I'll take a H.S. guy who hasn't won much but can average 20 points a game on the Hilltop, lol. See you guys next season when the opening will be how good the guys look in open gym and how we brought in a guy who won 3 state titles, is a winner, and will average 13 points per game, haha.

This "system" guys thing doesn't work, you don't believe me look at Nova with Crutch. He went and got guys who can get you a bucket when the "system" breaks down! I've actually spoken to Crutch and he's made mention to this.

High school
Dragas 28 ppg
Shuler 29 ppg
d'Augustino 28 ppg against double teams
Tinsley 21 ppg

We were forced to play guys who we normally would redshirt due to injury.
So we do have scorers.

[Columbuseer]

Wlu got many good looks inside in second half that just did not drop.
toros did a great job taking away the three.
No system is infallible, but I will take 85% winning % every day.

Regarding nova, if folks are serious about competing with them, better open up the checkbook for $25k in nil per player. Why do you think our 6-6 2025 commit decommitted and went to nova?
Of the 12 d2 players on bevo francis watch list, 3 are from nova se. Graziani, iraldi, and cisarik.

[TopperNation]

West Lib's system fails them again, as they don't have that 1 guy to get you a bucket when you need it. 18-0 and 23-2 runs in an elite 8 game is unheard of. I believe many of us on this board have said this for years, but I for one no longer care about 6 or 7 guys averaging 10+ points a game. Give me the guy that averages 22 plus points a game that can also get you a bucket when you need it and have 2 or 3 others at 9 points a game. Yes, West Liberty can win 25-30 games in the regular season and maybe win a conference regular season title, but the standard has been raised and now it's time to recruit or bring guys in who can flat out score. I had enough of the WL motto "we recruit H.S. winners", I'll take a H.S. guy who hasn't won much but can average 20 points a game on the Hilltop, lol. See you guys next season when the opening will be how good the guys look in open gym and how we brought in a guy who won 3 state titles, is a winner, and will average 13 points per game, haha.

This "system" guys thing doesn't work, you don't believe me look at Nova with Crutch. He went and got guys who can get you a bucket when the "system" breaks down! I've actually spoken to Crutch and he's made mention to this.