West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm with you, DownLow... A team that lost 6 players, 5 "arguable" starters from last years team (hoehn, gross, dennis, arnold, clay, kirk), is looking pretty good. I love love love the pressure defense...it's suffocating... It's glorious to watch...the ball moves crisply, nobody is overdribbling...they are spaced well...and of course hitting 15 + 3's a game makes it all go together... I'm impressed...

I am very impressed by this team. Watson , saben and Allen getting more comfortable each game. Look out for them in Jan 2018! They are shooting better than last year's team. Intensity seems to be higher. My prior observations for improvement are for situations when 3 is not falling or opponent is not committing turnovers when your goal is the final four.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Wow tough crowd on here. I'll go the opposite direction and point out some positives from the game and ones that seem to be trending the first 3 games.

43% from 3.
23 assists on 40 baskets.
Created 34 TO's while only having 8 TO's of their own.
21 steals.
123 points!!

Keep in mind this team has an active roster of 6 new players that were not in a WL uniform last year and only 2 starters returning.

Hey...Don't get me wrong, I like almost everything they have done so far. Just a few things to clean up though before you can really say they are hitting on all cylinders. Probably just me but I find the free throw % particularly annoying. It should be nearly automatic for a team that shoots so well. These are free points we are just leaving.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hey...Don't get me wrong, I like almost everything they have done so far. Just a few things to clean up though before you can really say they are hitting on all cylinders. Probably just me but I find the free throw % particularly annoying. It should be nearly automatic for a team that shoots so well. These are free points we are just leaving.

Hey Boat, surprised you didn't dive in deeper to the FT shooting. They have two outliers:
Bolon--has shown to be a lights out 3 pt shooter--is 8-13 FT, only 61%. It's a small sample size so far, and I'll take bets he gets it to at least 70% by end of year. He has good form (saw him FRiday), and it will correct itself.

Griffin is their other poor FT shooter. He wasn't good last year (59%), and this year has started out 8-15 FT, only 53%. I'm not sure he'll gain a ton, but let's hope he gets to 60%.

You take away the two outliers, Bolon and Griffin, and anyone want to guess what they are shooting from line? 82%. 51-62. So there are two players who have exhibited poor FT shooting, but everyone else is the 80% you want.

Again small sample size but Monty 80%, Meiny 87%, French 100%, Watson 89%, Primmer 100%, Dyer 100%, Saben 75%, Smith 75%.

Now the downside is Bolon and Griff have shot almost a 1/3rd of their total FT's.

My take is the FT shooting is not as dire as once thought.

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Although I think free throws are extremely important...I always value what percent do you shoot inside 3 minutes when you need to salt the game away or climb back in a close game. With that--- the small sample shows WL consistent with years past.

-This year .744
-Last year .721
-Final four team two years ago .734

UNC shot .701 last year and won a national title (no I'm not saying we are UNC or we are we going to win an NC this year).

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Using 75% as a minimum target for FT success, we'd need to add Allen and Moore to the negative side of the ledger. That makes four players below the "line" and two on the line. When six of your 12 players are either at or below 75%, that possibly represents something you should bay attention to. From a team performance standpoint, raising the four players who are shooting sub 75% on FT's to 75% would represent 2 extra points per game. Not a huge deal so far but if the season plays out like it has in the past, having two "extra" points at the end of the game could equal an "extra" win or two.

To me, after you develop a good smooth FT "stroke," shooting them is a matter of focus and repeatability. Calm down...take your time...and shoot...SAME way you've probably done a thousand times in practice. You work hard to get to the line and sometimes have to endure a few lumps to get the free shots...make the other team pay for their mistake!!!!

BUT...We are talking about a three game sample size here and for a few of these guys, one FT is the difference between being below or above the line (Moore is shooting 714...had he made one more FT he'd be shooting 857).

Not saying it would have played out this way last season, but two "extra" points could have meant we beat WJ to close the season and probably then had the Regional Tourney at WLU. Two "extra" points would have been huge 14 days later also against WJ.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Using 75% as a minimum target for FT success, we'd need to add Allen and Moore to the negative side of the ledger. That makes four players below the "line" and two on the line. When six of your 12 players are either at or below 75%, that possibly represents something you should bay attention to. From a team performance standpoint, raising the four players who are shooting sub 75% on FT's to 75% would represent 2 extra points per game. Not a huge deal so far but if the season plays out like it has in the past, having two "extra" points at the end of the game could equal an "extra" win or two.

To me, after you develop a good smooth FT "stroke," shooting them is a matter of focus and repeatability. Calm down...take your time...and shoot...SAME way you've probably done a thousand times in practice. You work hard to get to the line and sometimes have to endure a few lumps to get the free shots...make the other team pay for their mistake!!!!

BUT...We are talking about a three game sample size here and for a few of these guys, one FT is the difference between being below or above the line (Moore is shooting 714...had he made one more FT he'd be shooting 857).

Great commentary and maybe that's the definition of obsfucation?...

my point got lost...82% from the other 10-11 guys on the team would have lead NCAA D2 in team FT shooting last year...and bolon will get better...

And I would definitely rather have two more points a game than not, we can agree on that...

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Great commentary and maybe that's the definition of obsfucation?...

my point got lost...82% from the other 10-11 guys on the team would have lead NCAA D2 in team FT shooting last year...and bolon will get better...

And I would definitely rather have two more points a game than not, we can agree on that...

It is always interesting when you talk about a team sport that relies on individual performance. You can look at almost any stat and do this..."WLU is doing GREAT scoring"..."WLU is having trouble rebounding." We talk about how the "team" is doing but within that good/bad assessment, there are some players that are doing very good, and some who are not.

I think Bolon will correct his FT "issue" (if he has an issue at all) but if he doesn't, it could present a problem in close games. Does Coach Howlett put the ball in the hand of his leading three point shooter when we are down two points with under a minute to play knowing he is struggling a bit from the foul line? If he does, does the opposing coach let the play play out and perhaps lose or do you put Bolon on the line were he shows a tendency to be not quite automatic and perhaps win the game??

Of course, if you have gotten two extra points at the line during the course of the game, it's a moot point!!!!!

I'm not really saying we have a problem shooting FT's, yet. But it is something that bears a little watching and perhaps a little more post practice attention.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It is always interesting when you talk about a team sport that relies on individual performance. You can look at almost any stat and do this..."WLU is doing GREAT scoring"..."WLU is having trouble rebounding." We talk about how the "team" is doing but within that good/bad assessment, there are some players that are doing very good, and some who are not.

I think Bolon will correct his FT "issue" (if he has an issue at all) but if he doesn't, it could present a problem in close games. Does Coach Howlett put the ball in the hand of his leading three point shooter when we are down two points with under a minute to play knowing he is struggling a bit from the foul line? If he does, does the opposing coach let the play play out and perhaps lose or do you put Bolon on the line were he shows a tendency to be not quite automatic and perhaps win the game??

Of course, if you have gotten two extra points at the line during the course of the game, it's a moot point!!!!!

I'm not really saying we have a problem shooting FT's, yet. But it is something that bears a little watching and perhaps a little more post practice attention.

I am confident bolon will fix his ft. From watching him in person in first two games his missed fts tend to be a little flat in terms of arc, unlike his treys which are textbook in term of Arc. Once he sees video he will adjust.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

psssst .... quit talking about it or else you'll have their heads all screwed up every time they go to the line. They'll be seeing BOAT written across the backboard.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

psssst .... quit talking about it or else you'll have their heads all screwed up every time they go to the line. They'll be seeing BOAT written across the backboard.

Hahahaha!!! If they allow me to get in their heads, they have bigger issues than missing a few more FT's than I like!!!

[CelticCoach]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

From what im seeing they are off to a hot start, however, are any of those teams going to be.500 this season? Also, once teams get a scout on them I see closer games heading into December/January

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

From what im seeing they are off to a hot start, however, are any of those teams going to be.500 this season? Also, once teams get a scout on them I see closer games heading into December/January

DE could be slightly above 500 but no way for Cheyney or Seton Hill. Hot starts are typical for WLU, as is their level of competition. Teams have had the chance to scout and adjust to WLU for years...not many have been able to claim W's against them. But every year is different and maybe this will be the year.

[CelticCoach]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

DE could be slightly above 500 but no way for Cheyney or Seton Hill. Hot starts are typical for WLU, as is their level of competition. Teams have had the chance to scout and adjust to WLU for years...not many have been able to claim W's against them. But every year is different and maybe this will be the year.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU hung 130 on Glenville last night to claim a 130-100 W. Scored 75 points in the first half to claim a 28 point halftime lead and it was over from there with WLU trading baskets for time in the second half. An indication of how good WLU can be...they scored 70 points in a 16 minute span to "close out" the first half...THAT's a 175 PPG clip!!

Anyone know what happened to Meineinger? Started and played the first 2 minutes then his night was over. Did he get an injury?

[timbertopper]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU hung 130 on Glenville last night to claim a 130-100 W. Scored 75 points in the first half to claim a 28 point halftime lead and it was over from there with WLU trading baskets for time in the second half. An indication of how good WLU can be...they scored 70 points in a 16 minute span to "close out" the first half...THAT's a 175 PPG clip!!

Anyone know what happened to Meineinger? Started and played the first 2 minutes then his night was over. Did he get an injury?

Poked in the eye according to the announcers. Could have played in the second half if needed.