West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

I'd surely think Butler will join Ben's staff.

He'd probably make at least double. D2 assistants make a hair above minimum wage.

It's possible but as of right now, Butler still works for WLU. Typically, if a new HC is going to bring "his guys" from the old college to the new one, it's a pretty quick process measured in days not weeks.

If I were looking for a principal Assistant Coach, I'd probably be looking at someone with a bit more experience like say a Nick Smith from Nova.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

At least as of now, one week after Howlett left, no WLU players have jumped into the portal. Hoffman and Butler need to be having daily contact with each returning player and insure they feel loved. Need to get each one back on the Hilltop this summer working camps and other "jobs." Monitor them on a daily basis! Worst thing they can do is go weeks without contact...because know Ben (or others) are reaching out dangling "D1 dreams" in their face!!

I'd surely think Butler will join Ben's staff.

He'd probably make at least double. D2 assistants make a hair above minimum wage.

[Columbuseer]

Fyi
podcast with ben from earlier this week.

https://youtu.be/Qc0TYvxh_II?feature=shared

He mentioned bringing some players from wlu to help in transition.

the wlu job posting probably needs to be open for at least a week. Once closed, the interviews and decision needs to be done promptly.

The assistant coaches are doing everything that they can to secure the roster. Some players may have decided to go to Indy. Others may be waiting on the head coach decision.

[boatcapt]

Fyi
Interview with ben howlett

-He implied some wlu players may follow him to iu indy.
- says he has to like recruits as people regardless of their basketball skills
- no true center and everyone has to be able to shoot
- talked about drawing opponent's big man 20 ft away from goal to guard his big man who can shoot in order to negate inside height advantage.
- said key to system is brainwashing players into playing harder than they ever thought was possible.

Podcasts - WV MetroNews
https://wvmetronews.com/podcast/

Interview with Ben at 35:00 min.

Go to podcasts, then select sportsline and then select Thursday may 29.

At least as of now, one week after Howlett left, no WLU players have jumped into the portal. Hoffman and Butler need to be having daily contact with each returning player and insure they feel loved. Need to get each one back on the Hilltop this summer working camps and other "jobs." Monitor them on a daily basis! Worst thing they can do is go weeks without contact...because know Ben (or others) are reaching out dangling "D1 dreams" in their face!!

[boatcapt]

I'm not suggesting a radical shift in how they play basketball. I am suggesting they evaluate how to get more elite talent from a quantity conversation, which would ultimately increase their chances of winning a national title. I am also suggesting that taking that approach may require some adaptation or evolution of how they've grown accustomed to playing, coaching, and recruiting.

I firmly believe that the modern-day college athlete is focused on climbing rungs of the different levels, and not necessarily just winning basketball games. Not saying that the latter isn't a factor, and that there are not exceptions to the cultural norm now, but my personal belief is that you are limiting yourself from a quantity conversation related to elite talent by not adapting the system to some degree.

These discussions are not about proving any methodology is right. It's about finding ways to evolve and win the last game. That's really all that matters. If all the Elite Eight trips never amount to anything for them, then did it all really matter? I recognize you can't take away the success over the long haul, but I would argue that the real answer to that question is, "no."

I would point out that WLU has changed the type of player they bring in. This was a unilateral shift that was not driven by substandard results. Coach(s) assessed we needed greater athletic ability to "get over the hump" and win a NC. If that was the goal, I would say they have failed (if you can call being a perennial Elite 8 performer failing). Buuuttt...What bring in higher athletic ability athletes did do was increase the interest in poaching them!

I am of the opinion that perhaps we need to take a step back in our recruiting. I'm not advocating that we have a team made up of 12 6'1" spot up 3 PT shooters but maybe we don't need need 12 above the rim court runners who can hit a fair share of 3's who would be highly priced in the portal either. Maybe a mix would be better to giving a degree of continuity while reducing the number of players who are going to leave after one or two years

I think the WLU Style has shown that you can win with a group of dedicated "athletes" AND it can win with a collection of gym rat spot up jump shooters. Just maybe you can win just as well AND be a bit more stable (ie fewer transfers) by melding the two.

[Columbuseer]

The interesting item is luring bigs out works in D2 -- where all big men are in D2 because they have some flaws. The D1 bigs are much bigger, faster and more athletic. The D1 game has also evolved to be a near-mirror of the NBA (dunks and treys) so the bigs are more accustomed now than ever at guarding the outside.

Good points. That is one of the many differences that makes the success of the system in D1 an open question for many of us.

The AD is fully behind the system. He called Kim Caldwell of Tenn. To ask her if it would work at men's D1. She said yes.

Crutch is convinced that it will work if one has d1 level players. He said nova scrimmaged fl. Atlantic's final 4 team and forced turnovers with their pressure.

I am optimistic that it will work because d1 level players never see full court pressure in AAU.
However, I think more d1 players will attack the rim in transition rather than pulling the ball out and they are typically very talented at finishing at the rim. If indy does not have quick d1 level players, they could give up easy points.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Fyi
Interview with ben howlett

-He implied some wlu players may follow him to iu indy.
- says he has to like recruits as people regardless of their basketball skills
- no true center and everyone has to be able to shoot
- talked about drawing opponent's big man 20 ft away from goal to guard his big man who can shoot in order to negate inside height advantage.
- said key to system is brainwashing players into playing harder than they ever thought was possible.

Podcasts - WV MetroNews
https://wvmetronews.com/podcast/

Interview with Ben at 35:00 min.

Go to podcasts, then select sportsline and then select Thursday may 29.

The interesting item is luring bigs out works in D2 -- where all big men are in D2 because they have some flaws. The D1 bigs are much bigger, faster and more athletic. The D1 game has also evolved to be a near-mirror of the NBA (dunks and treys) so the bigs are more accustomed now than ever at guarding the outside.

[Columbuseer]

Fyi
Interview with ben howlett

-He implied some wlu players may follow him to iu indy.
- says he has to like recruits as people regardless of their basketball skills
- no true center and everyone has to be able to shoot
- talked about drawing opponent's big man 20 ft away from goal to guard his big man who can shoot in order to negate inside height advantage.
- said key to system is brainwashing players into playing harder than they ever thought was possible.

Podcasts - WV MetroNews
https://wvmetronews.com/podcast/

Interview with Ben at 35:00 min.

Go to podcasts, then select sportsline and then select Thursday may 29.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Fair enough. I just don’t see any evidence that West Liberty is anything less than they have been or will fall from the ranks of the elite, NIL or not. I suppose if they get this new coach hire wrong that could change. IUP on the other hand definitely needs to figure things out about their approach to the new landscape.

Make no mistake, Joe figured it out.

Like it or not, the Lord of the Redshirt went old school last year. He did a traditional reboot and tried to make one last run with a (largely) home-grown roster.

Everybody knew last year (relying on all true freshmen) would be painful. The key item is, however, they are all back. In this day and age, keeping them all even for a second year is a big win. Now he's added around them and they have a year of experience. Add to it his two best players sat out last season and are now go-for-launch.

I don't think he'll get 'Year 3' out of all of them. But, we'll see.

That was his choice to go old school. Joe certainly has/had the money to go full mercenary portal. It's never been his way and at his age it's not going to suddenly become his way.

Don't get me wrong, he's done some immaculately odd things the past two years with player minutes (KJ & Sarp). That said, Joe's going to be pretty good this upcoming year. This 'doing it the old way' may actually work.

As for the National Title ... IUP and WL can both without question win it. It's obviously not easy. The stars have to align. The best team isn't always the last one standing. One team wins the last game of the season. The fact IUP and WL are 0-4 in the final game is what it is. Both have had tremendous success. Both have won an awful lot of basketball games. Winning that final game would be nice but it doesn't define either program.

[Chuck Norris]

My opinion is primarily based on where the puck is going, not where it was. If we weren’t into this new world of NIL I would have the opinion that WL or maybe even IUP could eventually win a national championship. I don’t like it, but it’s the world of collegiate sports we’re living in now. Yes, the pendulum could swing back the other way and change the equation again, so I’d take the “never” as more tongue in cheek.

Fair enough. I just don’t see any evidence that West Liberty is anything less than they have been or will fall from the ranks of the elite, NIL or not. I suppose if they get this new coach hire wrong that could change. IUP on the other hand definitely needs to figure things out about their approach to the new landscape.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I guess I just can’t get on board with the idea that WL (or IUP for that matter) will never win a national championship. Never is a long time. And it somewhat implies they’ve never really been close when I feel like they’ve been extremely close a number of times even when they didn’t reach the championship game.

My opinion is primarily based on where the puck is going, not where it was. If we weren’t into this new world of NIL I would have the opinion that WL or maybe even IUP could eventually win a national championship. I don’t like it, but it’s the world of collegiate sports we’re living in now. Yes, the pendulum could swing back the other way and change the equation again, so I’d take the “never” as more tongue in cheek.

[Topper_Hopper]

I prefer your position on this, believe me. I’m just a bit more pessimistic about it.

I think the team from California that lost to Nova in this year's championship game is the best example of a relatively unknown team popping up on the national scene. I don't know if they were built through the Portal. Aside from that, it's been a lot of well known D2 programs in the title game for the past 5 years.

That could change, but I think we'll see more of the same.

[Columbuseer]

It's completely fair for you to say that. I don't disagree whatsover.

But it's also completely fair for me to say that approach limits access to elite players who could in fact put you over the hump.

Neither of us are incorrect in what we are saying.

I agree with you that it limits access to elite players who are not sufficiently unselfish or fundamentally sound. I just think that wlu knowingly accepts that reality.
I recall a juco all American who came to the Hilltop. He came highly recommended by a respected coach but was not able to play in open gym.

What an offensive talent! No one could guard him. Break your ankle moves, great handles, finish at the rim, and 40+ % from three. Human highlight reel. Extrapolated to 40 minutes of play, he would have averaged 47 pts a game. But he could not learn to pass, rebound, or play defense in the press. Other teams were scoring easy goals because he was out of position. Open teammates did not get the pass for the easy shot. Wlu gave him every chance, even starting him once. It was hopeless and his minutes declined.
Shortly into the 2nd semester he was gone

My point is wlu has tried the elite athlete, thinking they can turn them into a complete player. Just have not had much success. I think a match exists out there that meets your requirements and is a good fit.
but I think we will have to expand our recruiting footprint, which requires $$$.

[IUP24]

"...the modern-day college athlete is focused on climbing rungs of the different levels, and not necessarily just winning basketball games..."

By definition, this type of player ( who is not 100% focused on winning) is not a fit for the wlu style. On occasion, some players have starting playing for their stats and it did not end well. Coach Howlett has mentioned that several times post-game.

But I do agree that great talents at d2 today may not stay 4 years. With the d1 emphasis on the xfer portal, more players are going d2 when previously d1 would have signed them. However, imho wlu prepares players better for a euro pro career than many d1 schools.
Unfortunately, players will think short term and pursue the NIL in a couple of years.

It's completely fair for you to say that. I don't disagree whatsover.

But it's also completely fair for me to say that approach limits access to elite players who could in fact put you over the hump.

Neither of us are incorrect in what we are saying.

[Columbuseer]

"...the modern-day college athlete is focused on climbing rungs of the different levels, and not necessarily just winning basketball games..."

By definition, this type of player ( who is not 100% focused on winning) is not a fit for the wlu style. On occasion, some players have starting playing for their stats and it did not end well. Coach Howlett has mentioned that several times post-game.

But I do agree that great talents at d2 today may not stay 4 years. With the d1 emphasis on the xfer portal, more players are going d2 when previously d1 would have signed them. However, imho wlu prepares players better for a euro pro career than many d1 schools.
Unfortunately, players will think short term and pursue the NIL in a couple of years.