West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

They better leave with a doctorate in something.

Some kids are already 22 or 23 years old. Many will just opt to hang it up get started with their careers, etc.

The 'log jam' mentioned above would have a huge impact on D2 -- the land of money not falling off trees. Schools will get real creative in finding money -- academics, etc. But, donor money typically is what it is. I don't think the traditionally fully-funded programs will suffer much. They have huge followings (by D2 standards) and can likely rally the core boosters to give more. That said, there aren't many 'haves' in D2 ... many more 'have nots'.

Brings up another issue that we don't really focus on, academic progress. NCAA requires that athletes meed certain credit and degree progress numbers to maintain athletic eligibility. The process is supposed to result in graduation in five years. They are going to have to regigger the rules now that there will be a 4 year glut of athletes that have now been given an extra year. Do athletes now have 5 years of "on-field" eligibility and 6 years of total eligibility? Do they ever go back to normal? For every peak there is a trough...teams are going to have a glut of players next year (driven by Seniors who stay for their extra year then the 2020 AND 2021 freshmen classes)...will there be a trough in 2025? As you say, the D1 financial haves will be able to absorb the cost of increased scholarship athletes +the cost of equipping and training them but that is highly questionable for almost any DII program. For example, if you increase a typical team from 100 players to 125 that is 25 extra practice uniforms a team has to purchase...25 extra uniforms that have to be cleaned every day...25 extra players in a locker room that was probably already full with 100 players. If the NCAA permits DII's to have 45 (13 "extra" scholarships), that is a cost and at least in WV, that is a cost that is born exclusively by donors (no state funds for athletic scholarships).

[IUPbigINDIANS]

We are setting up a situation were a player effectively can be spending eight years at a college...Traditional redshirt year, all or part of four years (with an injury shortened season), injury redshirt year, Covid year and then final year!

They better leave with a doctorate in something.

Some kids are already 22 or 23 years old. Many will just opt to hang it up get started with their careers, etc.

The 'log jam' mentioned above would have a huge impact on D2 -- the land of money not falling off trees. Schools will get real creative in finding money -- academics, etc. But, donor money typically is what it is. I don't think the traditionally fully-funded programs will suffer much. They have huge followings (by D2 standards) and can likely rally the core boosters to give more. That said, there aren't many 'haves' in D2 ... many more 'have nots'.

[boatcapt]

I guess the NCAA can wait a while. My understanding, from the D1 football perspective only, regarding the rationale for the extra year:
1) They wanted players to have no penalty if they did not feel safe in playing.
2) Post season playoffs were cancelled (basketball tourney is still on, as far as I know)
3) The teams that are postponing to the spring could put players at potential disadvantage in terms of workouts for pro team, draft, etc.

To be fair, they made the year not count toward eligibility, regardless of whether one played or not.
Although no decision has been made, It would seem that D1 football will have to increase scholarship limit beyond 85 to least 100-110 to accommodate the extra players next year. Also creates log jams for playing time, I would think.




I could only envision NCAA considering it for D2 basketball, if players opt out for safety reasons, significant conferences postpone season beyond Jan 1, and NCAA tourney is cancelled.
Right now, MEC says no competition before Nov 1.

We are setting up a situation were a player effectively can be spending eight years at a college...Traditional redshirt year, all or part of four years (with an injury shortened season), injury redshirt year, Covid year and then final year!

[Columbuseer]

As it stands right now at least from the NCAA's prespective, basketball is unaffected. There are some colleges/conferences that have self limited themselves until the spring semester. And even many of those teams/conferences are planning on playing a schedule that will get them NCAA tourney eligible. If that is the case, why would the NCAA give players an extra season of eligibility??

I guess the NCAA can wait a while. My understanding, from the D1 football perspective only, regarding the rationale for the extra year:
1) They wanted players to have no penalty if they did not feel safe in playing.
2) Post season playoffs were cancelled (basketball tourney is still on, as far as I know)
3) The teams that are postponing to the spring could put players at potential disadvantage in terms of workouts for pro team, draft, etc.

To be fair, they made the year not count toward eligibility, regardless of whether one played or not.
Although no decision has been made, It would seem that D1 football will have to increase scholarship limit beyond 85 to least 100-110 to accommodate the extra players next year. Also creates log jams for playing time, I would think.




I could only envision NCAA considering it for D2 basketball, if players opt out for safety reasons, significant conferences postpone season beyond Jan 1, and NCAA tourney is cancelled.
Right now, MEC says no competition before Nov 1.

[boatcapt]

In d1 football everyone gets an extra year, whether they play or not. So a freshman could play all 10 games And it would be the same as a redshirt. 5th year senior would get a 6th year.

have no idea if d2 is considering this for basketball but if they made this decision Dalton, Luke and Marlon could play thus year and next. Lots of unanswered questions at d1 and d2 - increase scholarships for next year? How to divide time - 3 waves?

As it stands right now at least from the NCAA's prespective, basketball is unaffected. There are some colleges/conferences that have self limited themselves until the spring semester. And even many of those teams/conferences are planning on playing a schedule that will get them NCAA tourney eligible. If that is the case, why would the NCAA give players an extra season of eligibility??

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It seems that how each school arranges their schedule would have a lot to do with it. Currently CAL U has spring classes running from 2/1-5/3 and if BB began start of January PSAC could play 20-25 game schedule through early March probably just division H/A and some crossover. Then maybe an abbreviated conference playoff and national tournament. If play reaches the tournament, with or without fans, it seems unlikely that eligibility will be altered. Really, who knows. This is all wild speculation. Put your mind back a year. Could you think of any scenario aside from WW III that would cancel '20 D2 football season ?

Basketball has its own set of Covid headaches to overcome. Many area's have major restrictions on 'indoor' events. Most are limited to 25 people.

Start subtracting:

4 coaches
3 officials
?????3-4 on press row

That leaves 14 players (7 per team).

Now, Joe Lombardi would say business as usual but most teams play more than 7 guys. I suppose players 8 and up could be in the lockerroom.

I had a little hope of a basketball season a couple weeks ago. Now, I have next to none.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

In d1 football everyone gets an extra year, whether they play or not. So a freshman could play all 10 games And it would be the same as a redshirt. 5th year senior would get a 6th year.

have no idea if d2 is considering this for basketball but if they made this decision Dalton, Luke and Marlon could play thus year and next. Lots of unanswered questions at d1 and d2 - increase scholarships for next year? How to divide time - 3 waves?

I'd guess they follow the D1 model. However, money will make things complicated down here in the bus leagues.

[Columbuseer]

In d1 football everyone gets an extra year, whether they play or not. So a freshman could play all 10 games And it would be the same as a redshirt. 5th year senior would get a 6th year.

have no idea if d2 is considering this for basketball but if they made this decision Dalton, Luke and Marlon could play thus year and next. Lots of unanswered questions at d1 and d2 - increase scholarships for next year? How to divide time - 3 waves?

[boatcapt]

Just guessing here because the NCAA can step in at any time and "adjust/interpret" any of their policies to mean what ever they want them to be at any time. For DII, athletes are given 10 total semesters and 4 varsaty seasons. The really key thing is that for basketball, they consider a season that actually spans part of two semesters to be one season for eligibility purposes. So...In a normal year a player will use two of his 10 semesters and one of his four seasons. Here's the just guessing part...This year, teams that practice before the begining of the second semester will use one of their 10 semesters while teams that wait until after the beginning of the semester to practice will not. Weather a team choses to play actual games in the first semester or waits to play all their games in the second semester, they will still count as one of their four playing seasons.

So what effect will this have on a team? Truthfully, not much. There may be a player or two (or 10 across the DII landscape) that can gain an "extra" playing season, but that probably won't be too impactful. Effectively, a coach would have to chose to tank the 2020/21 season to "stockpile" players. Here's how it could work at WLU (or any school):

Dalton Bolen, Luke Dyer and Marlon Moore will be Senior this year. If coach looked at his roster and decided that having those 3 play in 2021/22 along side now seniors Malik McKinney, Will Yoakum and Pat Robinson...Along with a now game hardened bench would set up a potentially killer team, he could do that. BUUUUTTT...That team would come at a potentially tough 2020/21 season.

So for the sake of discussion, how would a 2020/21 WLU team do made up of:

Malik McKinney
Bryce Butler
Will Yoakum
Evan Conley
Quinn Hiles
Pat Robinson
Owen Hazelbaker
Zach Rasile
Luke Powell
Elijah Watson
Ben Sarson

Who would be the first wave and who would be on the second wave and more importantly, how many games would they win??

[CALUPA69]

It seems that how each school arranges their schedule would have a lot to do with it. Currently CAL U has spring classes running from 2/1-5/3 and if BB began start of January PSAC could play 20-25 game schedule through early March probably just division H/A and some crossover. Then maybe an abbreviated conference playoff and national tournament. If play reaches the tournament, with or without fans, it seems unlikely that eligibility will be altered. Really, who knows. This is all wild speculation. Put your mind back a year. Could you think of any scenario aside from WW III that would cancel '20 D2 football season ?

[Columbuseer]

[Columbuseer]

I know that's not 1-8 assessment, but that is a pretty stout top 8! Most DII's would kill to go into a season with just those as their starting 5 and 3 bench players. But WLU just doesn't play that way! WLU rolls at least 10 deep. So who among the following make a move into the "Second Wave??"

Quine Hiles - Played ok as a true freshman in limited minutes. Fits the mold of a WLU player but needs to step up his shooting % and defense.
Evan Conley - Redshirted last season. RAIL thin at 6' 155 but typical WLU recruit. Back-up for Dyer? Hope he took advantage of the quarantine to EAT and workout! Needs to pack on 20 pounds!!
Zach Rasile - TF
Luke Powell - TF
Elijah Watson - TF
Ben Sarson - TF

Only thing really stopping WLU from having a "Third Wave" is numbers!! That and only 48 minutes in a game. But imagine the havoc WLU could cause by throwing an entire third wave at a team who is just ready to black out for three minutes of defensive he11...Take WLU's pressure D, pump it up to 100 and rip their jugulars out!!

Good points to consider.
Sometimes last year, I thought that after getting a big lead in the first half, the players reverted to playground ball and too much one on one play in the second half. A third wave waiting to replace them would serve as a good attitude adjustment tactic.

I think Quinn made substantial improvement, compared with the beginning of the season. It took time for him to adjust to the speed of the game. His three-point shot is deadly.

I am looking forward to seeing Evan play. I saw him play in high school. Great scorer, but unselfish. Did not turn the ball much and seemed to often make the right decision with the ball.
Good 3 point shooter and high motor (probably a redundant statement for a player at wlu - LOL)

Pure speculation: Of the true freshmen, my guess is Zach Rasile will get minutes.Coach's son, played in a similar system, great understanding of the game, 40 feet in is within his range.
Kind of like Bryce Butler in that he has an understanding of the game beyond his years. Watched him once in person in high school.

I also would not be surprised to see Elijah Watson get minutes. He has surprising good handles for a big man, strong rebounder/shot blocker and can shoot the three as well as slash to the rim, based on his highlights. Also played in Chicago's toughest league last year. In no way am I counting out Sarson and Powell, as their future is bright. I just see Rasile and Watson as slightly better fits for getting some of the minutes consumed by Boswell and Alessandro, respectively last year.

If I were a guard, I would be picking Luke Dyer's brain every practice and watching tapes of his play.. He will be a big loss. I wonder who will step up to take his role of distributor and great defender?

[boatcapt]

I know that's not 1-8 assessment, but that is a pretty stout top 8! Most DII's would kill to go into a season with just those as their starting 5 and 3 bench players. But WLU just doesn't play that way! WLU rolls at least 10 deep. So who among the following make a move into the "Second Wave??"

Quine Hiles - Played ok as a true freshman in limited minutes. Fits the mold of a WLU player but needs to step up his shooting % and defense.
Evan Conley - Redshirted last season. RAIL thin at 6' 155 but typical WLU recruit. Back-up for Dyer? Hope he took advantage of the quarantine to EAT and workout! Needs to pack on 20 pounds!!
Zach Rasile - TF
Luke Powell - TF
Elijah Watson - TF
Ben Sarson - TF

Only thing really stopping WLU from having a "Third Wave" is numbers!! That and only 48 minutes in a game. But imagine the havoc WLU could cause by throwing an entire third wave at a team who is just ready to black out for three minutes of defensive he11...Take WLU's pressure D, pump it up to 100 and rip their jugulars out!!

[Columbuseer]

Been watching some of last year's games. Here are some idle thoughts...

1. The last few games Marlon Moore Jr. blossomed into a disruptive, dominating force on defense. His 3 pt shots were well chosen and he was shooting threes at 50%. He also started blocking shots while keeping the ball in play, which led to WLU run-outs. If he reduces turnovers and becomes more judicious in choosing when to foul, he could have a break-out year and could be a major factor in a deep NCAA run. His mobility and skills can be a match up problem for typical big men.

2. Malik Mckinney was much more than a shutdown defender. He shot over 41% from three and made some incredible attacks to the rim for scores. The platoon system allows him to play at full throttle on both defense and offense, which is a sight to behold. In the WV State MEC tournament game, he held Abram, an elite 1-on-1 player (maybe the best in the MEC not at WLU), who was killing us, to just 5 points. IMHO his pressure caused Abram to quit playing team ball. Abram became fixated on beating Malik in a 1-on-1 game (with little success), resulting in very poor shots at critical junctures of the game. Sometimes the ball sticks a little too long in his hands, but this greatly decreased in recent games.

3. Patrick Robinson III hovered around 50% from three, before tailing off to the mid 40% range toward the end of the season. He was a nightmare to guard as he loved to slash to the rim and has an apparently unlimited repertoire of ways to make layups after contact. What a scorer! IMHO, if he plays just a little bit lower in his defensive stance to lower his center of gravity, he has great potential as a defensive player.

4. Will Yoakum greatly improved his presence on the boards, especially offensive rebounding. He is avoiding charges and finishing at the rim. Similar to Patrick, he is also deadly from three at nearly 50%. He showed great timing on blocking shots at the rim on breakaways. He could benefit from choosing his fouls carefully, especially in the backcourt.

5 Dalton Bolon developed a strong back to the basket game, and can finish with either hand. Young players could learn a lot about offensive rebounding by studying Dalton. He is a second ahead of everyone in anticipation of the shot and gets in optimal position for a rebound. He has gotten much stronger. His game is very complete and his effort is amazing, which is why he is an All-American. He could benefit from improving his assist to turnover ratio.

6. Luke Dyer shot over 40% from three this year and hit pressure shots. He is a scorer, who chooses not to shoot in order to distribute the ball. He had the second highest assist to turnover ratio in D1 and D2 history at 5.90 (5.96 is the record, and 3.0 is considered outstanding for a PG). During one 5-game stretch, he had 38 assists and only 2 turnovers. His hands are so quick. He excels at stripping the ball, especially from big men who try to post him up. He always seemed to know where the ball is going, before everyone else on defense. He was playing chess, while others were playing checkers. Aspiring point guards could learn much from watching him.

7. Bryce Butler did not play like a freshman, as his game is very mature. Shot selection, passing, rebounding, the whole package. As he got more comfortable with the college game, he started to attack the basket more. He was deadly from three point range, and willingly shares the ball. He could benefit from getting in defensive position for a charge call a little earlier to reduce number of blocking calls and avoid charges on offense.

8. Owen Haselbaker was the rare big man to play at WLU as a freshman. He was willing to bang inside with much older players. He may not know his own strength, for when he fouled someone, they often were shaken up, even though it clearly was not a hard foul (maybe they were just trying to rest) LOL. He has a good three point shot, The ball does not stick in his hands, as he is able to quickly decide the correct passing option. He had the quickest and most aggressive outlet pass after a rebound of anyone on the team - no time-wasting dribble after the rebound for him. He also ran the court well. IMHO, he just needs to work on his foot speed, maybe get a lower center of gravity in his defensive stance and work on his defensive guarding angles, which is not unusual for a freshman. He has a bright future.

[boatcapt]

I always thought a deadly combination at D1 for playing WLU ball would be John Belein coaching offense with his back door cuts and three point shooters and sharing the ball, and Bob Huggins coaching defense with Press Virginia. WVU used to destroy the other team's continuity with Press Virginia, just like WLU.

Both coaches recruited unselfish overachievers who were not superstars (although recently Huggs has been landing some top 100 recruits, but they have to want to play smart and hard, which eliminate many top 100 players)..

Interesting hearsay: I was talking to a person in high school athletics, who told me that Huggs brought the entire WLU team down to Morgantown for several days to observe the style. It might have been at one of the camps, but not sure. The source believed that WLU played a unsung role in the development of Press Virginia. From the source's references, i guess the time frame was sometime between 2009 and 2013. Has anyone heard this before?

I know, it is a slow day.

Bringing WLU in on the sligh is what I would expect from a D1. Their ego's won't let them admit that they "copied" even part of a lower division offense or defense scheme.