Doubleheaders Suck

[D2Rover]

Copying and pasting my comment from a West Region discussion here, curious what people think. Seems like if anyone in D2 is going to have the fan support to start taking basketball more seriously it would be here. Seems like there are a number of programs in the region who could make big home games a more marketable event if it was one 2-hour experience starting at 7:00 rather than a 4-hour (or more) all evening event where one game starts at 5:30 and the other won't end before 9:00.


Doubleheaders suck, especially on weekdays. Get off work at 5, go straight to the arena for a 5:30 women's game, sit around for a half hour at least between games, men's game won't end before 9, usually later, lucky to be home by 9:30. That's as somebody who lives 6 blocks from the arena, my buddy who lives in the next town over wanted to come to the women's game yesterday but couldn't make it in time. When they're an occasional occurrence they are interesting, but having it for every game like most of D2 does is terrible for your consistent fan base (I do sometimes appreciate it when I'm travelling). I skipped a home game in Emporia yesterday because I just didn't want to give my entire evening to it again for mediocre basketball. It also means less evenings per season with a home game, since they all happen on the same dates.

I believe the GNAC (Great Northwest Athletic Conference) is the only conference that isn't exclusively double-headers. My understanding is there are 3 or 4 programs that have significant enough season ticket support for the women that it would be counter-productive (and a practical hassle with reserved seats overlapping) to play double headers.

I've heard it does tend to be more cost effective to staff double-headers, especially since it cuts your number of home dates in half. I have to imagine total ticket revenue goes down, but it must not be enough to deter most places from doing it.

[Inkblot]

I believe the GNAC (Great Northwest Athletic Conference) is the only conference that isn't exclusively double-headers.

The other conference that doesn't always do them is the GMAC; Ursuline only has women's sports, but both genders play 20 conference games, so there's some quirks in the schedule... as an example, by my count Ashland plays the same team on the same day for 13 out of 20 games, and in 3 of those 13 one game is at home while the other is on the road, so only 10 are true doubleheaders.

[D2Rover]

The other conference that doesn't always do them is the GMAC; Ursuline only has women's sports, but both genders play 20 conference games, so there's some quirks in the schedule... as an example, by my count Ashland plays the same team on the same day for 13 out of 20 games, and in 3 of those 13 one game is at home while the other is on the road, so only 10 are true doubleheaders.

Now that you mention that, Dallas Baptist and Texas Woman's technically pair up in the Lone Star too, although I think the conference is otherwise all doubleheaders. Guess I need to fact check what I hear from others a little more. Rest of my point stands.

[Stanger86]

Could be worse....this is the second year the NSIC has gone to a format where halfway through the season they flip the doubleheaders to where the men start at 5:30 and the women follow at 7:30.

[LukeMcConnell1]

Could be worse....this is the second year the NSIC has gone to a format where halfway through the season they flip the doubleheaders to where the men start at 5:30 and the women follow at 7:30.

Are you saying that stinks or it's a good way to mix it up?

GAC does this with the conference tournament. It rotates each year between women and men who get the afternoon and evening semifinals and who gets the early or mid-afternoon title game slot.

[LukeMcConnell1]

I've heard it does tend to be more cost effective to staff double-headers, especially since it cuts your number of home dates in half. I have to imagine total ticket revenue goes down, but it must not be enough to deter most places from doing it.

Staffing is definitely the biggest issue. Many smaller schools are already in scramble mode at times to staff games. Doubling the need would be catastrophic for some. At SNU, the non-conference games where it is single games for women or men are always the hardest to staff, at least from what I've seen and heard over the past seven years.

[Stanger86]

Are you saying that stinks or it's a good way to mix it up?

GAC does this with the conference tournament. It rotates each year between women and men who get the afternoon and evening semifinals and who gets the early or mid-afternoon title game slot.

I'm not really a fan....NSIC does the same for its tournament

[cat fan]

I guess I've never seen anything other than double-headers at this level, other than the occasional non-conference game.

For me, I'm an occasional attendee for the women's games, and go to the majority of the men's. I don't feel an obligation to attend both, and from my very informal crowd watching I think there are many other fans who attend one or the other. When the men started to play first (as is now the norm for half the season in the NSIC) I initially felt a little guilty leaving prior to or during the women's game... but I got over it. My wife isn't a basketball fan, so spending entire weekend evenings at the gym doesn't go over well.

As noted above, the cost savings are substantial for the schools, and the logistics are simplified. This is also true for road games. I believe there are still a couple of schools that charter a single bus for both teams... huge money to be saved there for the long trips up north.

For the conference tournament, well, I'm not a fan of the combined tourneys. That is relatively new, and it has detracted from the experience.

[Stanger86]

For the conference tournament, well, I'm not a fan of the combined tourneys. That is relatively new, and it has detracted from the experience.

But again, I would say it has to do with shared costs and an improved overall event experience and production value.

[MrMustang]

double headers suck if there are a weeknight at 5:30 - hard to make it

they also suck on the weekend at 3:30 instead of say 5 & 7 -- but the travel is such that it makes sense from a player standpoint. they get back late enough as it is with 3:30 and 5:30 starts.

but kills attendance as kids stuff going on all day

back in the day when Saturday was 5:30 & 7:30 or 6 & 8 you would get great crowds

[wscsuperfan]

double headers suck if there are a weeknight at 5:30 - hard to make it

they also suck on the weekend at 3:30 instead of say 5 & 7 -- but the travel is such that it makes sense from a player standpoint. they get back late enough as it is with 3:30 and 5:30 starts.

but kills attendance as kids stuff going on all day

back in the day when Saturday was 5:30 & 7:30 or 6 & 8 you would get great crowds

Agree with all of what you said

[Purple Mav Man]

double headers suck if there are a weeknight at 5:30 - hard to make it

they also suck on the weekend at 3:30 instead of say 5 & 7 -- but the travel is such that it makes sense from a player standpoint. they get back late enough as it is with 3:30 and 5:30 starts.

but kills attendance as kids stuff going on all day

back in the day when Saturday was 5:30 & 7:30 or 6 & 8 you would get great crowds

This is an interesting point. I think this may be a big factor in attendance, but regardless of start time. People might just be burned out on Saturdays after a full day of kid activities. Obviously not every fan has kids, nor kids the age of having all day activities. But there are plenty. Those weekend tournaments are longer and more plentiful than they used to be. Eats a ton of time and disposable income.

I am fortunate to WFH so the 5:30 starts aren’t as much of an issue. Being an hour from Taylor Center is the larger hurdle. Haha. However I also fully realize not everyone has that setup and just making it home by 5:30 is a challenge many evenings, let alone getting to an event.

[Stanger86]

This is an interesting point. I think this may be a big factor in attendance, but regardless of start time. People might just be burned out on Saturdays after a full day of kid activities. Obviously not every fan has kids, nor kids the age of having all day activities. But there are plenty. Those weekend tournaments are longer and more plentiful than they used to be. Eats a ton of time and disposable income.

I am fortunate to WFH so the 5:30 starts aren’t as much of an issue. Being an hour from Taylor Center is the larger hurdle. Haha. However I also fully realize not everyone has that setup and just making it home by 5:30 is a challenge many evenings, let alone getting to an event.

Agree with all of this. I do think the pandemic shifted some spending habits, and overall inflation is hurting things too. I'm pretty sure tickets have doubled in some markets from what they were 10-20 years ago. But overall, I'm not sure shifting to afternoons did any favors. Especially in markets where they are drawing from a wider region. Harder to come in from an hour away to Aberdeen when the game starts at 5:30. I think Marshall deals with a bit of that too, as do many of the schools from smaller communities that tend to rely on a region as a whole for support.

[SW_Mustang]

I don't mind doubleheaders in some situations - like the early part of the season on weekends for the non-con stuff. It's easier to get to campus (personally) and I can see both teams on one trip for one ticket.

That being said, I'd prefer if we at least did M/W H/A scheduling like the local DI college does. Fans have a lot of gripes about that too, but there's basketball just about every weekend at home and the crowds don't suffer as much.

[MrMustang]

This is an interesting point. I think this may be a big factor in attendance, but regardless of start time. People might just be burned out on Saturdays after a full day of kid activities. Obviously not every fan has kids, nor kids the age of having all day activities. But there are plenty. Those weekend tournaments are longer and more plentiful than they used to be. Eats a ton of time and disposable income.

I am fortunate to WFH so the 5:30 starts aren’t as much of an issue. Being an hour from Taylor Center is the larger hurdle. Haha. However I also fully realize not everyone has that setup and just making it home by 5:30 is a challenge many evenings, let alone getting to an event.

It absolutely has affected attendance. Not only are there mosr tournaments per age group - let's say 7 instead of 5 even 7 or 8 years ago (2 extra weekends) they are starting at age 8 instead of age 10.

Honestly parents get burned out and the costs are crazy