G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

[Bballfan]

More on Lake Erie College. Wouldn't be surprised if we don't start hearing more about their future (or lack thereof) shortly.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...epay-bond-debt

[Bballfan]

I think three football GMAC schools are definitely in jeopardy. I mean Lake Erie doesn't even have their own field. And we have seen what happens when the Catholic church drops their funding (Notre Dame College closed, Wheeling University on life support). Football is an expensive sport. But it brings a LOT of kids on partial scholarships to pay tuition. I mean a Lake Erie College....how many students are athletes? A lot. Not a good situation.

Davenport is a private school, but not in the best financial state. Fairly new to D2 too. Indy? Who knows. They are all over the map on what they want to do. I can't imagine all those schools in Indianapolis are going to survive in their current configuration.

Agree not to stress, but better be flexible. The GLIAC is bringing some awful NAIA school in the middle of Chicago to their conference. I can't imagine that will end well.

[BlueBlood]

Looking at the GMAC:
HIllsdale - the most prestigious and richest school in the conference. And it is not even close.
Northwood - a lot of Dow chemical money
Findlay - a lot of Marathon oil money
Cedarville - strong support from the church. Attract a certain type of student and they have their niche.

Ashland and Walsh - I think they will be alright but not as sound as the 4 above.

Remaining:
Ohio Dominican - Once the church pulls out. Done.
Ursuline - If the church pulls out like they did with Notre Dame College. Done.
Malone - on life support. Doubtful will survive.
Tiffin - surprised it is still afloat
Lake Erie - would be surprised if it is open next year. Spending $1.5 million on a turf soccer field!?!? What are Lake County commissioners smoking giving a school with severe financial troubles this money. Probably the next domino to fall.

Wesleyan and Thomas More - I can't speak much to these schools. I know if the churches pull funding, things get tough.

Using this analysis, its theoretical that the G-MAC could lose up to 3 football programs within the next several years. That would mean dropping from 10 FB schools to 7.

As to possible replacements:
Davenport is out there, but I fear that adding them in the near future would severely de-stabilize the GLIAC. And I don't think that is in anybody's best interest (including the G-MAC's). The only private Mountain East FB school that likely isn't in jeopardy of closing is Charleston - and that's a bit of a hike. Then, you of course have UIndy, which if they would commit to D2, would be a perfect pickup - I just don't think any of us are convinced that they are committed to staying D2. I think that really leaves the stronger Mid-States Football Association NAIAs or Kentucky NAIAs as possible targets.

I guess the other option would be to not stress over replacement, and research possible FB scheduling arrangements with the GLIAC and/or MEC (both of which have lost FB schools themselves). Honestly, given the present climate, that might be the better move. That would allow the conference to add schools if/when it makes sense, but always know that you have flexible FB scheduling the next year despite additions/subtractions.

[tuffeagle]

And I don't think geographical state has anything to do with it. It's about conference.

It doesn't. The conferences are tied to geographic regions. So Ohio has teams in multiple regions. Central State is in one, Notre Dame College was in another, and the GMAC is in the Midwest. If Gannon, Mercyhurt, West Lib for example joined the GMAC, they would be in the Midwest region. When Trevecca leaves the GMAC they will be in a completely different region.

[boatcapt]

Not sure to be honest. Maybe a CIAA poster will chime in with some knowledge on that.

I know the CIAA has changed Regions a couple of times.

[Scrub]

And I would note that the GMAC used to have members in WV which crossed "region lines."

And I don't think geographical state has anything to do with it. It's about conference.

[Scrub]

CIAA crosses regions doesn't it? And I would note that the GMAC used to have members in WV which crossed "region lines."

Not sure to be honest. Maybe a CIAA poster will chime in with some knowledge on that.

[Scrub]

People thumb their nose at schools with a large percentage of athletes enrolled.

I'm probably one of these people (these "nose-thumbers"). You've heard me say before that the thing I don't like about athletics as an enrollment strategy is that it just feels somewhat exploitative. Granted, no one is holding a gun to these kids heads and forcing them to attend these schools and join these teams, but the end result is that kids with a dream end up paying money they don't have for a change to play ball (and sometimes with a sub-par education as the "reward"). It's the kids' choice for sure, but the school using athletics as an enrollment strategy is willingly cashing checks from these dreamers who would likely be better off somewhere else. And the fact that they knowingly do it (i.e., it's a stated strategy) just feels exploitative to me.

And you're right that the school might not exist without these athletic departments, but dumping all of this money into athletics might have prevented these schools from investing in becoming distinctive in some other fashion. [shrug]

[boatcapt]

Being across regions makes that a tough sell perhaps. The NCAA will want roughly the same number of schools in each region (which is why most regions have about 3 conferences in the region). If you make a "super conference" across regional lines, it will muck up regional alignment. Now, that's not the GMAC's or MEC's problem; it's NCAA's. But still: might add a complicating factor.

CIAA crosses regions doesn't it? And I would note that the GMAC used to have members in WV which crossed "region lines."

[Scrub]

Take the top seven programs from the GMAC and the top seven from the MEC and form a 14 team conference. For the remaining schools, encourage them to form their own conference and form a scheduling alliance with that conference. Also give members of that conference expedited consideration for membership should one of their schools meet conference membership requirements at a later date.

In effect, create a "major league/minor league" situation. Don't know of anything in the NCAA by-laws that forbids it sooooo...

Being across regions makes that a tough sell perhaps. The NCAA will want roughly the same number of schools in each region (which is why most regions have about 3 conferences in the region). If you make a "super conference" across regional lines, it will muck up regional alignment. Now, that's not the GMAC's or MEC's problem; it's NCAA's. But still: might add a complicating factor.

[boatcapt]

You are 110% correct!

Looking at the GMAC:
HIllsdale - the most prestigious and richest school in the conference. And it is not even close.
Northwood - a lot of Dow chemical money
Findlay - a lot of Marathon oil money
Cedarville - strong support from the church. Attract a certain type of student and they have their niche.

Ashland and Walsh - I think they will be alright but not as sound as the 4 above.

Remaining:
Ohio Dominican - Once the church pulls out. Done.
Ursuline - If the church pulls out like they did with Notre Dame College. Done.
Malone - on life support. Doubtful will survive.
Tiffin - surprised it is still afloat
Lake Erie - would be surprised if it is open next year. Spending $1.5 million on a turf soccer field!?!? What are Lake County commissioners smoking giving a school with severe financial troubles this money. Probably the next domino to fall.

Wesleyan and Thomas More - I can't speak much to these schools. I know if the churches pull funding, things get tough.

Take the top seven programs from the GMAC and the top seven from the MEC and form a 14 team conference. For the remaining schools, encourage them to form their own conference and form a scheduling alliance with that conference. Also give members of that conference expedited consideration for membership should one of their schools meet conference membership requirements at a later date.

In effect, create a "major league/minor league" situation. Don't know of anything in the NCAA by-laws that forbids it sooooo...

[tuffeagle]

Athletics is an enrolment booster no doubt. And these "players" pay tuition...even those that are on some % of scholarship. People thumb their nose at schools with a large percentage of athletes enrolled. But I would ask were the school would be absent the enrolled athletes? Answer is the schools would have long closed so there would be no school to thumb their nose at. Heck, subtract the 500 student athletes from most schools in the GMAC (heck...almost ANY DII conference school) and probably over 50% would be closed already or in serious financial straights.

You are 110% correct!

Looking at the GMAC:
HIllsdale - the most prestigious and richest school in the conference. And it is not even close.
Northwood - a lot of Dow chemical money
Findlay - a lot of Marathon oil money
Cedarville - strong support from the church. Attract a certain type of student and they have their niche.

Ashland and Walsh - I think they will be alright but not as sound as the 4 above.

Remaining:
Ohio Dominican - Once the church pulls out. Done.
Ursuline - If the church pulls out like they did with Notre Dame College. Done.
Malone - on life support. Doubtful will survive.
Tiffin - surprised it is still afloat
Lake Erie - would be surprised if it is open next year. Spending $1.5 million on a turf soccer field!?!? What are Lake County commissioners smoking giving a school with severe financial troubles this money. Probably the next domino to fall.

Wesleyan and Thomas More - I can't speak much to these schools. I know if the churches pull funding, things get tough.

[boatcapt]

Absolutely! Malone is in really bad shape too. Plenty of articles out there on the financial problems of a lot of small colleges.

The move from NAIA to D2 was for financial reasons. They wanted the NCAA money that gets kicked back from the NCAA Basketball Tournament. That money in turn is used to support the athletic programs. The athletic programs at a lot of schools are use pure and simple to boost enrollment numbers. You might give a kid a little scholarship money, but split a scholarship 4 ways, get 4 students paying 75% of their way and the college is making out. They are not having sports like STUNT or e-Sports just because. If they can throw a little money at those sports and it brings in 100 more students, that's the goal.

If I was to bet, Malone, Lake Erie, and Ohio Dominican will all be gone within 5 years. Urbana and Notre Dame College are just the beginning.

Athletics is an enrolment booster no doubt. And these "players" pay tuition...even those that are on some % of scholarship. People thumb their nose at schools with a large percentage of athletes enrolled. But I would ask were the school would be absent the enrolled athletes? Answer is the schools would have long closed so there would be no school to thumb their nose at. Heck, subtract the 500 student athletes from most schools in the GMAC (heck...almost ANY DII conference school) and probably over 50% would be closed already or in serious financial straights.

[BlueBlood]

NAIA schools are closing at a pretty fast rate as well. I really think it has more to do with schools not being able to attract regular students (non-student athletes). I think any small private school that doesn't have superior academics or something unique about it (a unique social or political leaning, strong drama/arts, SOMETHING) is in a bit of a fight for survival right now.

I hate being pessimistic, but I think that's where we are at.

[Bballfan]

I wonder some times how much the move from NAIA to D2 hurt some of these schools. This now the second school in Ohio that was part of the big migration from NAIA to D2 to close it doors. I'm not sure either school had the faculties or the capital backing to support the move. Schools like Lake Erie and ODU are probably not far behind. If your a D2 school in todays world, you better have something that makes you stand out, and a heck of a fundraising department or its going to be rough sailing.

Absolutely! Malone is in really bad shape too. Plenty of articles out there on the financial problems of a lot of small colleges.

The move from NAIA to D2 was for financial reasons. They wanted the NCAA money that gets kicked back from the NCAA Basketball Tournament. That money in turn is used to support the athletic programs. The athletic programs at a lot of schools are use pure and simple to boost enrollment numbers. You might give a kid a little scholarship money, but split a scholarship 4 ways, get 4 students paying 75% of their way and the college is making out. They are not having sports like STUNT or e-Sports just because. If they can throw a little money at those sports and it brings in 100 more students, that's the goal.

If I was to bet, Malone, Lake Erie, and Ohio Dominican will all be gone within 5 years. Urbana and Notre Dame College are just the beginning.