Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

My point has never been that Wheeling was a bad place for the tourney. It's that decisions in the conference has benefited some more than others. And if you think this is just a Shepherd hating thing, you're wrong. I have a couple of media friends (former colleagues) from Charleston and Huntington areas. At least three people in the media have jokingly referred to the MEC as the West Liberty Conference. Around the time as the announcement to move the tourney came about, one of them told me that the conference was starting to look shaky and to look for members to consider other options. He gathered this from speaking with some coaches at various events. At the time, I thought it was Wise and the Ohio schools. And I still think the Ohio schools would bolt tomorrow given the chance. Even after Cheyney dropped athletics, I didn't even think about Shepherd joining the conference until officials started speaking about it. This conference was not aggressive enough early, and now it is on shaky ground.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Charleston did not even submit a bid to host the tournament for the next two years. The big reason is the NCAA basketball calendar for next year and the WVSSAC basketball calendar for next year.

Next year, the WV State Girl's Basketball tournament is slated for the same week as the MEC tournament. Charleston would have had to nix one of those tournaments. They chose not to bid on the MEC tournament. They will bid on the tournament in future seasons. They put a ton of money in remodeling the Civic Center and will need some cash flow for future years, not to mention some hotel tax revenue.

I don't know any thing about Wheeling's arena. Charleston does have many good qualities....the Civic Center is in close proximity to many good hotels and restaurants within walking distance of the Civic Center. That is hard to beat. Some of those hotels also have the capability of feeding teams. The Charleston GazetteMail gives as good as coverage for a D2 tournament that you are going to find. There are critics of newspapers. But the Gazette Mail has the capability and staff to cover both high school regional tournaments and the MEC tournament at the same time.

I would agree that Danny Jones and Company do not do enough to promote the tournament. It seems a lot of sponsors for the tournament are found by the league office. Charleston also does not support the tournament in terms of ticket revenue. That building costs a lot to rent and if the tickets don't move, then your revenue is cut down. Amos does a great job with having the best Video/Audio package of any D2 basketball tournament. That is where he is great. He partnered with WV Metronews and has the best production you will find in D2 basketball. That will simply carry up to Wheeling for the next two years.

I pass no judgement on Wheeling until the tournament has had two years to run. Charleston has its' pros and cons. But it certainly was time for a change.

I stand corrected...I thought that Charleston had submitted a bid and Wheeling's was just better. But you point makes it impossible for Reid to have moved the tourney from Charleston to Wheeling just to "get" Shepherd OR just to "help" WLU.

I do recall now your previous point about the MEC Membership Committee including B.J. Pumroy the then current AD for Shepherd although I wasn't aware that he and Amos were the only members at that time. With that as backdrop, hard for Shepherd to criticize the make-up of the MEC when they were instrumental in chosing it. Harder still to argue that Amos "set up" membership in a manner designed to discriminate against Shepherd.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Always the notion of not taking the games off campus (like the PSAC).

Charleston wasn't drawing any gate for the vast majority of those games. High school will outdraw the MEC ... perhaps by far. Keep the money on campus. Games played in a huge arena with 300 people in the stands just look awful (ask California).

We'll see what happens at Wheeling Jesuit but this is putting the tournament in the backyard of the two top fan bases. Everything is about money end of the day.

That just about says it all. I would venture to guess that if the MEC had decided to have a Championship Game in football AND decided to have it at a fixed location, Shepherd probably would have been at the top of the list.

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I stand corrected...I thought that Charleston had submitted a bid and Wheeling's was just better. But you point makes it impossible for Reid to have moved the tourney from Charleston to Wheeling just to "get" Shepherd OR just to "help" WLU.

I do recall now your previous point about the MEC Membership Committee including B.J. Pumroy the then current AD for Shepherd although I wasn't aware that he and Amos were the only members at that time. With that as backdrop, hard for Shepherd to criticize the make-up of the MEC when they were instrumental in chosing it. Harder still to argue that Amos "set up" membership in a manner designed to discriminate against Shepherd.

But you also understand that Pumroy was let go by the school, right? I don't know the reasoning, but the higher ups must not have liked how he was doing things.

And the only membership he set up for WLU was WJU. However, he failed to help other member schools.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

My point has never been that Wheeling was a bad place for the tourney. It's that decisions in the conference has benefited some more than others. And if you think this is just a Shepherd hating thing, you're wrong. I have a couple of media friends (former colleagues) from Charleston and Huntington areas. At least three people in the media have jokingly referred to the MEC as the West Liberty Conference. Around the time as the announcement to move the tourney came about, one of them told me that the conference was starting to look shaky and to look for members to consider other options. He gathered this from speaking with some coaches at various events. At the time, I thought it was Wise and the Ohio schools. And I still think the Ohio schools would bolt tomorrow given the chance. Even after Cheyney dropped athletics, I didn't even think about Shepherd joining the conference until officials started speaking about it. This conference was not aggressive enough early, and now it is on shaky ground.

While the Commissioner of the MEC does have a level of authority, I think are overestimating it just a bit. Sure, he is the day to day face of the conference and press releases are submitted under his name...he is the "point of contact" for schools expressing interest in joining the MEC and he does do information gathering on a wide range of issues and does have some sway over the administrative budget but the strategic direction and real decision making powers of the conference are exercised by the Board of Directors (The Presidents of each member school). If you don't like how the conference is being run or feel it is favoring (or discriminating against) one member, those are the people to blame...Of course Shepherd's President has the same number of votes as West Liberty's soooo hypothetically their votes would cancel each others out.

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

While the Commissioner of the MEC does have a level of authority, I think are overestimating it just a bit. Sure, he is the day to day face of the conference and press releases are submitted under his name...he is the "point of contact" for schools expressing interest in joining the MEC and he does do information gathering on a wide range of issues and does have some sway over the administrative budget but the strategic direction and real decision making powers of the conference are exercised by the Board of Directors (The Presidents of each member school). If you don't like how the conference is being run or feel it is favoring (or discriminating against) one member, those are the people to blame...Of course Shepherd's President has the same number of votes as West Liberty's soooo hypothetically their votes would cancel each others out.

And then, Shepherd has every right to better itself. I said from the beginning that the MEC needed to press for 14 football schools and divide up into divisions. Based on all I know, it seems like they were content to wait on Wheeling Jesuit and roll with 12.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

But you also understand that Pumroy was let go by the school, right? I don't know the reasoning, but the higher ups must not have liked how he was doing things.

And the only membership he set up for WLU was WJU. However, he failed to help other member schools.

And Capehart no longer works at WLU.

Here's what the local paper had to say about Pumroy and his firing by then new President Hendrix:

http://www.journal-news.net/sports/2...on-perplexing/

So who did the MEC "slight" by not asking them to join? Who would have been a better choice in your minds eye that WJ? Yes, WJ did not have a football team and that proved to be a huge problem in 20/20 hindsight, but what other program would have offered the quality that WJ offered in the other sports it sponsors and yes, I include basketball in that?

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

And then, Shepherd has every right to better itself. I said from the beginning that the MEC needed to press for 14 football schools and divide up into divisions. Based on all I know, it seems like they were content to wait on Wheeling Jesuit and roll with 12.

So effectively you're saying that Shepherd couldn't convince six other MEC schools of the need to expand to 14 so they took their ball and left? Wonder what they will do if the other PSAC Presidents vote against them in the future??

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

And Capehart no longer works at WLU.

Here's what the local paper had to say about Pumroy and his firing by then new President Hendrix:

http://www.journal-news.net/sports/2...on-perplexing/

So who did the MEC "slight" by not asking them to join? Who would have been a better choice in your minds eye that WJ? Yes, WJ did not have a football team and that proved to be a huge problem in 20/20 hindsight, but what other program would have offered the quality that WJ offered in the other sports it sponsors and yes, I include basketball in that?

By not having football, WJU should have not been considered. While this wouldn't have immediately helped Shepherd, some of those Ohio schools could have been targeted early on. And now, bringing in Frostburg and setting up two divisions, Shepherd's travel would have been reduced. Would it have been enough to keep them in the MEC? I don't know. It would've been a more difficult decision though.

[Ram Tough]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

So effectively you're saying that Shepherd couldn't convince six other MEC schools of the need to expand to 14 so they took their ball and left? Wonder what they will do if the other PSAC Presidents vote against them in the future??

It is very difficult to kick a full member school out if it is compliant. This isn't remotely like the situation with Post. Post was an associate member. Shepherd will be a full member.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

By not having football, WJU should have not been considered. While this wouldn't have immediately helped Shepherd, some of those Ohio schools could have been targeted early on. And now, bringing in Frostburg and setting up two divisions, Shepherd's travel would have been reduced. Would it have been enough to keep them in the MEC? I don't know. It would've been a more difficult decision though.

But "bringing in" additional Ohio schools would have been used to bolster your argument about everyone having a "partner" except poor little Shepherd. It would have also bolstered your argument about "travel distance" being a prime reason that Shepherd is leaving...only it would have been MORE extreme!

Hey...I'm in favor or expanding the conference to 16 (or even 14) and have been on record for a while. But what I'm not in favor of is expanding for the sake of expansion. Frostburg makes sense (and has for a number of years) but remember, back when the conference was getting going Frostburg said they weren't interested in moving up to DII (not specifically to the MEC, just a general "looked at it, were happy in D3" sort of thing). There are other schools that combine the size/commitment/location criteria that the MEC is looking for but I don't know if the conference is working with them, if the conference has contacted them and they said not interested or if the conference is happy at 11 (or 12).

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

It is very difficult to kick a full member school out if it is compliant. This isn't remotely like the situation with Post. Post was an associate member. Shepherd will be a full member.

I'm talking about Shepherd leaving the MEC because they didn't get their way. What is Shepherd going to do if the other PSAC Presidents vote against something that they want? I mean, Shepherd is the "Most Western" school in the PSAC...wonder what Shep would do if the PSAC realignment that may come in the not too distant future includes them moving from the East to the West? Shepherd does now have a history of leaving when things don't go their way.

As for the PSAC getting rid of Post, true, they were an Associate member so it was easy to get rid of them. But still, they were the only non-PA school ever in the PSAC and the conference did get rid of them when better in-state options became available.

[Stea1th]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Hey...I'm in favor or expanding the conference to 16 (or even 14) and have been on record for a while. .

Are you ****ting me? Within the last few weeks and since the MEC has been at serious risk of downsizing - sure, you are on record....NOW. But two to three years ago (when there were OH schools actually looking to make a move), you were telling me that the MEC never intended to be more than 12 football playing schools and that there was no need to expand and that your sources indicate that the OH schools inquired and were kindly told "no thank you" and that you were very happy about that because you wouldn't want them anyway.

[Horror Child]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

I'm talking about Shepherd leaving the MEC because they didn't get their way. What is Shepherd going to do if the other PSAC Presidents vote against something that they want? I mean, Shepherd is the "Most Western" school in the PSAC...wonder what Shep would do if the PSAC realignment that may come in the not too distant future includes them moving from the East to the West? Shepherd does now have a history of leaving when things don't go their way.

You were telling us how they've been playing most of the same schools for 90+ years between the WVIAC and the MEC. Doesn't sound like a history of leaving when they don't get their way.

As for the PSAC getting rid of Post, true, they were an Associate member so it was easy to get rid of them. But still, they were the only non-PA school ever in the PSAC and the conference did get rid of them when better in-state options became available.

The PSAC and LIU Post parted ways when full-time, i.e sponsoring more than football in the conference, options became available.

[boatcapt]

Re: Derek Redd reports Shepherd is leaving the MEC after next year

Are you ****ting me? Within the last few months and since the MEC has been at risk of downsizing - sure, you are on record....NOW. But two to three years ago (when there were OH schools actually looking to make a move), you were telling me that the MEC never intended to be more than 12 football playing schools and that there was no need to expand and that your sources indicate that the OH schools inquired and were kindly told "no thank you" and that you were very happy about that because you wouldn't want them anyway.

You must not have read closely. I've consistently said that I wanted the MEC to expand to 16 BUUUUTTTTTT...That I didn't think that is what the MEC wanted. I've said on numerous occasions that the next logical step above 12 is 16 which would allow the conference to split into two divisions. A number of us even went so far as to prepare a list of sorts of the schools that we hoped would be part of this expansion (Frostburg was on the list as was U Pike, a couple of Ohio schools and Bowie).

Difference between what I wanted (and was on record supporting) and what I thought the MEC was going to do. The MEC's business model has been to stay at 12 teams and focus on quality rather than quantity and schools that didn't have the quality were indeed told no thank you. It appears now that they should have focused instead on inviting every school to join them regardless of size, location and quality.