SSHE Enrollments Down Again

[iupgroundhog]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Not so much for the chancellor - it wasn't his show. He didn't stick around long afterward but I may follow up with him. Selingo recently published a booklet on how things need to shift to accommodate GenZ characteristics so I asked him about that.

Some people have characterized the chancellor as a "disruptor" but I think maybe the best description is that he's someone who believes it can be reimagined. His previous work at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation was working with schools to research replacing letter grades and credit hours with competency-based credits. The big thing I've noticed is that the APSCUF heads seem to like what he has to say.

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't last long in this job. If you take a cursory glance at the PASSHE redesign process they are taking baby steps. The whole gist of what I was trying to say in this thread is that big changes need to be made. If you look at it what you have is academic people staying securely within their own reality. I think that will just lead to a slow death for the schools in the system. On the bright side, maybe this guy can disrupt things, as you say, and maybe he can get a big pledge from Bill Gates.

[boatcapt]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Part of the problem is that all parties have kicked the can down the road. Now they are to the point were dramatic large scale changes are about the only rhings that will save the SSHE and its members from death. And the longer they wait and do studies and conveine study groups the more dramatic the cuts are going to need to be. But I would imagine that there are at least 2 more hyears of study and debate until a plan is finally developed...and in true government fashion what they ultimately come up with will be way too little and way too late.

Someone stated that athletics needs to be a non factor in the ultimate decision. I agree 100% but would also add that the effect closing/merging schools has on the local community likewise needs to be a non factor. Colleges should not be "public works" projects designed to support towns. They should be first and for most places were students are educated and trained to become productive members of society. While athletics are certainly an interesting diversion and point of pride for students and the economic effect 2000 or so students, faculty and support staff have on the local community can be large, those are just side benefits that ahould not drive the discussion on weather a school should be closed or merged.

[boatcapt]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't last long in this job. If you take a cursory glance at the PASSHE redesign process they are taking baby steps. The whole gist of what I was trying to say in this thread is that big changes need to be made. If you look at it what you have is academic people staying securely within their own reality. I think that will just lead to a slow death for the schools in the system. On the bright side, maybe this guy can disrupt things, as you say, and maybe he can get a big pledge from Bill Gates.

[ironmaniup]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't last long in this job. If you take a cursory glance at the PASSHE redesign process they are taking baby steps. The whole gist of what I was trying to say in this thread is that big changes need to be made. If you look at it what you have is academic people staying securely within their own reality. I think that will just lead to a slow death for the schools in the system. On the bright side, maybe this guy can disrupt things, as you say, and maybe he can get a big pledge from Bill Gates.

For sure the redesign process is small changes. The chancellor talks about innovating out of the situation. But, the idea that this is some huge crisis is trumped up, except at a few specific local campuses, and departments (Cheyney, and low demand majors at shrinking schools. The religious studies department at IUP for instance had very few Freshmen enroll - less then 5 i've heard. ) Making it a crisis and acting like you are innovating to fix the problem is really just a way to advocate for money. Lowering tuition by 20% would likely go along way to fix the problem of imbalance between the passhe and other competing universities, but that would have to be provided by the state and those other universities have advocates in the state house as well. Instead, what will happen is that the universities will restaff through retirements and retrenchments of faculty, and re purposing of a few facilities. Enrollment will stabilize and start to creep up again and all will be right with the world. Western PA will have to get students from the central part of the state or Allegheny county or Philly - competing with PSU will be important, but to call it a crisis - not really

Now would I like to see a significant redesign that would change the character of the system - you bet I would, the PASSHE is being too content with mediocrity, and a better use of resources and more attention to personnel could create something really special, but I don't see it happening.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

For sure the redesign process is small changes. The chancellor talks about innovating out of the situation. But, the idea that this is some huge crisis is trumped up, except at a few specific local campuses, and departments (Cheyney, and low demand majors at shrinking schools. The religious studies department at IUP for instance had very few Freshmen enroll - less then 5 i've heard. ) Making it a crisis and acting like you are innovating to fix the problem is really just a way to advocate for money. Lowering tuition by 20% would likely go along way to fix the problem of imbalance between the passhe and other competing universities, but that would have to be provided by the state and those other universities have advocates in the state house as well. Instead, what will happen is that the universities will restaff through retirements and retrenchments of faculty, and re purposing of a few facilities. Enrollment will stabilize and start to creep up again and all will be right with the world. Western PA will have to get students from the central part of the state or Allegheny county or Philly - competing with PSU will be important, but to call it a crisis - not really

Now would I like to see a significant redesign that would change the character of the system - you bet I would, the PASSHE is being too content with mediocrity, and a better use of resources and more attention to personnel could create something really special, but I don't see it happening.

This is what we get when we create a semi-autonomous government agency run by an appointed board. Its not much different than how the Turnpike Commission operates. If we simply abolish PASSHE it wouldn't be too much better - they'd simply be sucked into the rest of the PDE bureaucracy. Ohio has a good model: they recently shifted power from the board of regents to the chancellor who reports directly to the state secretary of education. The board of regents now acts in an advisory capacity rather than supervisory. Ohio has 14 public universities, 24 branches, and 24 public community colleges. All report to the chancellor so you get one fluid strategy for all options. With the exception of Cheyney, I'd give the remaining 13 schools greater independence over purchasing, contracts, tuition, etc. Giving them greater freedom to realize their own unique brand is better than what we have now...or making them McState University at Bloomsburg or something like you see in other states like Wisconsin or California.

[Mikefln]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

If it is, it's because there are too many rednecks in this state who wear a lack of education as a badge of honor.

I was in a Facebook discussion last week where a Shippensburg townie declared that teens should fulfill a two-year military requirement before entering college. He didn't like all the liberals partying on Friday and Saturday nights.

Don't you find it ironic that you are talking about others lack of education when talking about institutions not able to manage themselves correctly by educators? I have been saying this for years, some of the dumbest people I have meet in my life are Ivy League graduates. Having a diploma does not make one smart, just schooled in a certain subject. Not having a diploma does not make one stupid, they just lack formal schooling.

[jrshooter]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Don't you find it ironic that you are talking about others lack of education when talking about institutions not able to manage themselves correctly by educators? I have been saying this for years, some of the dumbest people I have meet in my life are Ivy League graduates. Having a diploma does not make one smart, just schooled in a certain subject. Not having a diploma does not make one stupid, they just lack formal schooling.

Some of the dumbest people you know might be Ivy League grads, but they were smart enough to put themselves in a position to make these decisions in the first place.

I will not get behind any school of thought that suggests less education is better than more education.

[GoldenRam94]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

If it is, it's because there are too many rednecks in this state who wear a lack of education as a badge of honor.

I was in a Facebook discussion last week where a Shippensburg townie declared that teens should fulfill a two-year military requirement before entering college. He didn't like all the liberals partying on Friday and Saturday nights.

And that idiot probably never wore the uniform.

[jrshooter]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

He said he was in boot camp two weeks after his high school graduation.

Have you really looked and seeing what Goes to Shippensburg University anymore. I have met some very good students and I won't deny That. What I was trying to say is the town and the college are very segregated so I'm sorry if it came off differently. Not only that I get sick all the liberal spin at the universities and that's why I no longer believe in college education. As I did I graduated from high school and was in boot camp within 2 weeks and think that every young person male or female should do a minimum 2 years in a military to get their self structured and ready for life. I am in agreement on many things with you sir.

[Mikefln]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Some of the dumbest people you know might be Ivy League grads, but they were smart enough to put themselves in a position to make these decisions in the first place.

I will not get behind any school of thought that suggests less education is better than more education.

You are "educated" but you fail basic comprehension if that is what you got out of my response. My stance is the level/prestige of education does not make one smart or dumb. You have no idea what happen in a person life that "put them in a position" to make any choice. Some people have incredible fortune and where able to take advantage of it with out being smart or working hard. Paris Hilton is a perfect example of that. She is famous for being famous because she was pretty and filthy rich. You can claim she was smart enough to take advantage of it, but that is a low standard, as most people could with her luck. Others come from backgrounds that just suck. Maybe they had good parents but where too poor to go to college or even graduate hs (my dad fits in this category, as he immigrated here from Italy in the 50's at 17. Incredibly smart never graduated HS but he ran his own business, did his own books, marketed his business himself, etc etc. ). Maybe they had horrible parents who abused them. So they may lack the formal schooling and they may be dumb, but not always. One of the smartest people I know is a single mom at my work who is my peer who dropped out of HS. My boss has 3 degrees and a Masters and he is always asking her how to do his job.

The definition of intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. In my opinion too many people know how to acquire knowledge, it is the applying knowledge part they fail at. This is where I laugh at the Ivy League people I met. They had all of this knowledge but couldn't apply it in the real world.

[Mikefln]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

He said he was in boot camp two weeks after his high school graduation.

Honestly that is a very fair response. Too many 18 year olds (in any generation) are immature and it would do them well to be in the military (I always regretted that I didn't enlist), peace corps, some type of mission work before partaking in college. Maybe after that experience, they would not waste money majoring in a major that cannot lead to a living. There are only so many jobs that an Performing Arts major can lead too if you are not one of the best (not in your class but at minimum the region if not the country).

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Some research suggests that today's 18 year olds have the maturity of a 14 year old Gen Xer.

I'm all for a 1 for 2 exchange to be eligible for government aid. Two years of government service (military, peace corps Americorps, civil service whatever) forgives 4 years of college up to a certain dollar amount.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Honestly that is a very fair response. Too many 18 year olds (in any generation) are immature and it would do them well to be in the military (I always regretted that I didn't enlist), peace corps, some type of mission work before partaking in college. Maybe after that experience, they would not waste money majoring in a major that cannot lead to a living. There are only so many jobs that an Performing Arts major can lead too if you are not one of the best (not in your class but at minimum the region if not the country).

I'm a firm believer for my kids that if they aren't taking a specialized major ... they aren't going.

I can't tell you how many worthless degrees many of my friends have and are still paying for them.

[IUP24]

I'm a firm believer for my kids that if they aren't taking a specialized major ... they aren't going.

I can't tell you how many worthless degrees many of my friends have and are still paying for them.

Bingo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boatcapt]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Some research suggests that today's 18 year olds have the maturity of a 14 year old Gen Xer.

I'm all for a 1 for 2 exchange to be eligible for government aid. Two years of government service (military, peace corps Americorps, civil service whatever) forgives 4 years of college up to a certain dollar amount.

Military members and vets now have the GI Bill which effectively covers all tuition costs. Yet millennials prefer piling up a mountain of debt rather than do a stint in the military.