PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Same. I don't see the 25% reduction being possible and I'm not the only one. Some friends and acquaintances who study higher ed for a living don't see it - and some have specific expertise in state systems, public regionals, and budget alignment. The clearest example is in athletics. I bet consolidating athletics was secretly being considered until they realized that it would result in a net financial loss of several million dollars per campus. Which means that its yet another albatross PR nightmare down the pike when they have to cut the plan and go back to independent schools.

They will have to show enough forward progress. 25 is just a number. If it's going in the right direction then they can negotiate the next steps. I think that's the way it works.

[iupgroundhog]

Because there are going to be massive costs to do this. Yeah there are cost savings in employees. But, there are lots of costs that need considered. There are also consultant costs too. Technology costs. License costs. Etc.

And maybe the savings on employees will far outweigh the costs. I really hope so. I have just yet to see a document that definitively laid out costs and savings. What I have seen was that passhe wants an 11% reduction in employees and cost of education to drop 25%. They announced that pretty early on...but without knowing all the costs, I don't see how that could be highly accurate.

I'm pretty sure the legislature allocated somewhere north of $25 million for the administrative costs of doing this. That is not part of the PASSHE budget. The whole purpose is to save money.

Aren't you the person who refers to Greenstein as a visionary? Have you changed your tune?

[iupgroundhog]

I think the main, fundamental question of this integration is: Will it save money for the schools? So far, I'm not seeing it.

It's a lot of work and causing a lot of anxiety for everyone with all these moving parts.

I'm not following. They are cutting faculty and employees across the board. They are consolidating and eliminating programs. They are lopping off Presidents' salaries. Like Dr. Martin said it's all cost-driven.

Why do you say it's not saving money?.

[Fightingscot82]

I think the main, fundamental question of this integration is: Will it save money for the schools? So far, I'm not seeing it.

It's a lot of work and causing a lot of anxiety for everyone with all these moving parts.

Same. I don't see the 25% reduction being possible and I'm not the only one. Some friends and acquaintances who study higher ed for a living don't see it - and some have specific expertise in state systems, public regionals, and budget alignment. The clearest example is in athletics. I bet consolidating athletics was secretly being considered until they realized that it would result in a net financial loss of several million dollars per campus. Which means that its yet another albatross PR nightmare down the pike when they have to cut the plan and go back to independent schools.

[complaint_hopeful]

Exactly. I am sure somewhere in the NCAA credo there are principles about the integrity of intercollegiate competition. There are potential (real?) conflicts to having Bloom and LHU go head-to-head in wrestling when they're under the auspice of the same budget formula.

The fact of the matter is it's not intercollegiate competition, it's intra-collegiate competition.

I'm hoping for the best. The only thing I really care about in all this is the wrestling situation. The rest of it I'm fine with.

I think the main, fundamental question of this integration is: Will it save money for the schools? So far, I'm not seeing it.

It's a lot of work and causing a lot of anxiety for everyone with all these moving parts.

[Bart]

I don't see sports being consolidated because they've done the math and sports bring students. It's easy to be pessimistic about the plan but we have be careful that it doesn't cloud our view of everything else. I don't like this one bit but I'm not going to let it ruin my attitude toward all things Edinboro.

I will still wear my Bloomsburg State College or Bloomsburg State Teachers College gear to sporting events, if there are any. Here is another clue: as far a I know, Bloom hired 1 football assistant to fill 3 openings.

Having dealt with convicts, I get the feeling there is a bait and switch going on here. In the beginning, Bloom wasn't involved in this plan. I have a conspiracy theory that someone got into Hanna's ear. He sold the school down river in order to become president of the campuses. He is a typical flunkybureaucrat who did what he was told and greased the track for Bloom to join. If the western school could back out of the 3 school plan, Bloom could have stood alone too.

Reminds me of Dorian Gray who sold his soul to the devil. Hanna now has no loyalty to any campus. Nothing affects him directly, it only affects others.

[iupgroundhog]

The new territory for the NCAA will be a multi-campus university with each campus directly competing against the others. This isn't necessarily seen right now. All similar instances that come to mind are system schools with independent campuses (Cal and UCLA, Wisconsin and Wisconsin-Green Bay, etc) or they compete at different levels (Fairleigh Dickinson D1 & D3, LIU used to have D1 Brooklyn and D2 CW Post). Southern Illinois are technically the same school and both compete at D1 but in different conferences, but SIU Edwardsville is considered independent with its own accreditation. Similar to Penn State and Behrend.

Exactly. I am sure somewhere in the NCAA credo there are principles about the integrity of intercollegiate competition. There are potential (real?) conflicts to having Bloom and LHU go head-to-head in wrestling when they're under the auspice of the same budget formula.

The fact of the matter is it's not intercollegiate competition, it's intra-collegiate competition.

I'm hoping for the best. The only thing I really care about in all this is the wrestling situation. The rest of it I'm fine with.

[Fightingscot82]

The new territory for the NCAA will be a multi-campus university with each campus directly competing against the others. This isn't necessarily seen right now. All similar instances that come to mind are system schools with independent campuses (Cal and UCLA, Wisconsin and Wisconsin-Green Bay, etc) or they compete at different levels (Fairleigh Dickinson D1 & D3, LIU used to have D1 Brooklyn and D2 CW Post). Southern Illinois are technically the same school and both compete at D1 but in different conferences, but SIU Edwardsville is considered independent with its own accreditation. Similar to Penn State and Behrend.

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't see sports being consolidated because they've done the math and sports bring students. It's easy to be pessimistic about the plan but we have be careful that it doesn't cloud our view of everything else. I don't like this one bit but I'm not going to let it ruin my attitude toward all things Edinboro.

Well said. And that's what I'm trying to say too. Sports are probably one of my least worries in this all.

Now PASSHE has put out numbers that they want I believe an 11% reduction in employees over the next few years. And I believe that's all campuses. And they're hoping that retirement incentives do that.

But, some campuses are already thin on employees. Losing more stresses and strains them.

It's rough.

[complaint_hopeful]

https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/

I'm fairly confident that the individual athletics programs will remain intact...as long as the NCAA allows it. When students enroll, they'll likely have to identify a 'home campus'. So if you play football at Bloom, when you enroll you'd just identify that as your home campus.

Now, you know what teams did in like Little League baseball when a city had 2 teams? They'd load one team in some cases. These triads have the potential to do that. Not saying it's right, but what if they shift all the scholarships to 1 school in football. Or the majority? It's 1 budget. Now I know some dollars come from donors, so some would stay. I think there will need to be a lot of oversight.

[complaint_hopeful]

That's not what I was asking. I was asking whether the consolidated schools mentioned that had separate athletic programs had a single, combined accreditation or whether they had separate accreditations. That would matter in terms of whether there are precedents to having separate athletic programs or not. Because we now know it's going to be a single accreditation for the entire entity.

Gotcha. You were asking about the schools that already went through this. Makes sense.

[complaint_hopeful]

It was reported the aim was "to retain the unique and personal on-campus experiences, services and faculty-student interactions that have historically reinforced our campus identities, brands and value propositions". Schools were to maintain their names, but now we find out they hired a branding and marketing firm to come up with a new university name. We were told some schools were cutting staff, now know all are cutting personnel. Who knows when the other shoe will drop. I bet someone knows how athletics will pan out, and they are playing their cards close to the vest.

PSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin is probably right about "by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning." These scheduled town halls are just a dog and pony show, the end has already been written somewhere. It will be force fed to everyone, and then we vomit it back. The ink is dry.

There's no doubt that atleast some people know how they want this to turn out. But, I don't know...it doesn't seem like the teams are being given much guidance.

As far as the identity...that's a tricky one. Like they've been pretty clear that it will be a new University. But, they've also been clear that campuses keep their identity. How do you mesh the 2? How do you stay separate and the same?

I think it's a case of expectations. Also, they want it both ways. They don't want to alienate alumni and current students. But, they want to show lawmakers that they are making something new.

Tough decisions need made. It seems, atleast publically that they aren't announcing these.

For the campuses, my understanding is that the identities will be like - New U Name - Lock Haven campus, etc.

[Fightingscot82]

https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/

I don't see sports being consolidated because they've done the math and sports bring students. It's easy to be pessimistic about the plan but we have be careful that it doesn't cloud our view of everything else. I don't like this one bit but I'm not going to let it ruin my attitude toward all things Edinboro.

[Bart]

Yes, things seem to have changed dramatically. Does it seem feasible to have a common brand along with separate athletic programs? I hope it is.

https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/

[Fightingscot82]

It was reported the aim was "to retain the unique and personal on-campus experiences, services and faculty-student interactions that have historically reinforced our campus identities, brands and value propositions". Schools were to maintain their names, but now we find out they hired a branding and marketing firm to come up with a new university name. We were told some schools were cutting staff, now know all are cutting personnel. Who knows when the other shoe will drop. I bet someone knows how athletics will pan out, and they are playing their cards close to the vest.

PSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin is probably right about "by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning." These scheduled town halls are just a dog and pony show, the end has already been written somewhere. It will be force fed to everyone, and then we vomit it back. The ink is dry.

In the document I received from Edinboro, it explained that the name change will be a shared identity with campus identifiers. I imagine that means something like University of Northeastern Pennsylvania at Bloomsburg.