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  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post
    It was reported the aim was "to retain the unique and personal on-campus experiences, services and faculty-student interactions that have historically reinforced our campus identities, brands and value propositions". Schools were to maintain their names, but now we find out they hired a branding and marketing firm to come up with a new university name. We were told some schools were cutting staff, now know all are cutting personnel. Who knows when the other shoe will drop. I bet someone knows how athletics will pan out, and they are playing their cards close to the vest.

    PSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin is probably right about "by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning." These scheduled town halls are just a dog and pony show, the end has already been written somewhere. It will be force fed to everyone, and then we vomit it back. The ink is dry.
    Yes, things seem to have changed dramatically. Does it seem feasible to have a common brand along with separate athletic programs? I hope it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    I think the goal initially was 1 accreditation. I don't know if that changed after talking to middle states.

    I think the ncaa will allow it.
    That's not what I was asking. I was asking whether the consolidated schools mentioned that had separate athletic programs had a single, combined accreditation or whether they had separate accreditations. That would matter in terms of whether there are precedents to having separate athletic programs or not. Because we now know it's going to be a single accreditation for the entire entity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    It was reported the aim was "to retain the unique and personal on-campus experiences, services and faculty-student interactions that have historically reinforced our campus identities, brands and value propositions". Schools were to maintain their names, but now we find out they hired a branding and marketing firm to come up with a new university name. We were told some schools were cutting staff, now know all are cutting personnel. Who knows when the other shoe will drop. I bet someone knows how athletics will pan out, and they are playing their cards close to the vest.

    PSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin is probably right about "by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning." These scheduled town halls are just a dog and pony show, the end has already been written somewhere. It will be force fed to everyone, and then we vomit it back. The ink is dry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    Yes! I would say Athletics is one of the easier parts of this Integration atleast initially. Now over time, they may decide to consolidate some teams depending on costs. But not initially.

    I'd be more worried about how the funding gets distributed for sports when it's 1 budget. Like for football, will they balance scholarships or allow 1 school to have more.

    Like in the West. Cal generally has a better football team than Edinboro and Clarion. Will that balance out? Will more resources go to Clarion?
    I think an upside is that maybe Cal has a superior way of managing and funding athletics and the other two adjust for the better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Do those schools have separate accreditations or is it a unified accreditation?

    Why would the NCAA not approve keeping individual athletic programs? Conflict of interest? Seriously. Why is it an issue?
    Unsure. I think the only thing the NCAA would deny is one campus having multiple athletic departments.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    The whole this school keeps that program, etc...you mean in person? Because there will be 1 school when this is done. 1 budget. 1 bank account presumably.

    So say Program A is offered in person on campus 1. Students at Campus 2 and Campus 3 would likely be able to enroll in that program via hybrid or online classes in some cases. Maybe it's successful and they expand it in person at the other 2? So ability to take classes at the other schools should increase.

    I know it's tough to see this now...but Integration means campuses exist, but it's 1 school. Not 3 separate. And profits or losses are shared.
    I was being facetious (at least trying to be). It's esoteric. No problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Do those schools have separate accreditations or is it a unified accreditation?

    Why would the NCAA not approve keeping individual athletic programs? Conflict of interest? Seriously. Why is it an issue?
    I think the goal initially was 1 accreditation. I don't know if that changed after talking to middle states.

    I think the ncaa will allow it.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    Funny thing is, there's no way for the schools to be truly bankrupt. Cheyney was allowed to run on a deficit for years and ended up accumulating operational debt of twice its operating budget. Only the legislature can close a University. But... with this plan a campus can be closed. But they won't.
    Yes - Well until the passhe acct is depleted which supposedly can happen. At that point, the system collapses.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    That's just poor research. There are several examples. University of Southern Illinois is one. Fairleigh Dickinson University is another. Long Island University ran two athletic departments until recently.
    Yes! I would say Athletics is one of the easier parts of this Integration atleast initially. Now over time, they may decide to consolidate some teams depending on costs. But not initially.

    I'd be more worried about how the funding gets distributed for sports when it's 1 budget. Like for football, will they balance scholarships or allow 1 school to have more.

    Like in the West. Cal generally has a better football team than Edinboro and Clarion. Will that balance out? Will more resources go to Clarion?

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Ok, so this is pretty earth-shaking. Dishes are falling off the shelf out in Mifflinburg.

    I guess the benefit to Bloom is that they will get to have more administrators stay in town.

    Hey, let's hope the NCAA allows for the schools to keep their full complements of intercollegiate sports. If they don't, what then?

    At least LHU will likely get to keep all of their sports management and athletic training majors so that would be good for athletics. I still think LHU should drop d2 football.

    Could my prognostication come true that these schools go to sprint football? The league could be called the integrated/consolidated athletic association ... of Pennsylvania

    Bloom should get to keep the Supply Chain Management track.

    All of these releases are coming out of LH. Does anybody in Bloomsburg care (beyond Bart)?
    The whole this school keeps that program, etc...you mean in person? Because there will be 1 school when this is done. 1 budget. 1 bank account presumably.

    So say Program A is offered in person on campus 1. Students at Campus 2 and Campus 3 would likely be able to enroll in that program via hybrid or online classes in some cases. Maybe it's successful and they expand it in person at the other 2? So ability to take classes at the other schools should increase.

    I know it's tough to see this now...but Integration means campuses exist, but it's 1 school. Not 3 separate. And profits or losses are shared.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    That's just poor research. There are several examples. University of Southern Illinois is one. Fairleigh Dickinson University is another. Long Island University ran two athletic departments until recently.
    Do those schools have separate accreditations or is it a unified accreditation?

    Why would the NCAA not approve keeping individual athletic programs? Conflict of interest? Seriously. Why is it an issue?

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    The Universities have no leverage in this. They think they do...but these schools have been failing financially for so long that some will be bankrupt within a few years if this Integration doesn't happen. In some cases, it's their only hope of survival. I'd say probably 4 schools fall into that category atleast especially with covid.

    That said, the Integration itself is a concern. And the plan is going to have to be very good to work. There will be a price tag that is pretty high and we'll see how it gets funded. With that price tag, savings are going to be tough to come by early.

    So instead of fighting this for political reasons, groups need to see this as a means of survival and help develop the plan..

    There is a huge misconception that this is the Chancellors plan..It isn't. He's letting each triad develop it.
    Funny thing is, there's no way for the schools to be truly bankrupt. Cheyney was allowed to run on a deficit for years and ended up accumulating operational debt of twice its operating budget. Only the legislature can close a University. But... with this plan a campus can be closed. But they won't.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Perhaps we have been overlooking one important postulate:

    To integrate requires integration.

    - Lao-Tzu groundhog
    Well it is time to buy our school's apparel with our favorite logos. Its name-what passes not away; Laozi

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    More questions:

    "APSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin, responded to this in an interview with Behind the Headlines. She reported that Chancellor Greenstein states that this integration is still in the planning process. She counters this with the fact that each of these two mergers will have one university, one accreditation, one set of leadership, one faculty, one programer, and one budget."

    "These mergers are financially driven, however, “we don’t know yet what the cost savings would be from the consolidations.”

    "It is still unknown whether each of these six schools will have their own athletic teams or if the teams in their respected sport will combine as well. This raised questions when it comes to the staffing of coaches. The NCAA has yet to rule on whether the teams are able to be merged."

    "Although much more will go into the integration, by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning."

    https://apscufku.tumblr.com/post/644...he-integration
    That's just poor research. There are several examples. University of Southern Illinois is one. Fairleigh Dickinson University is another. Long Island University ran two athletic departments until recently.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    More questions:

    "APSCUF President, Dr. Jamie Martin, responded to this in an interview with Behind the Headlines. She reported that Chancellor Greenstein states that this integration is still in the planning process. She counters this with the fact that each of these two mergers will have one university, one accreditation, one set of leadership, one faculty, one programer, and one budget."

    "These mergers are financially driven, however, “we don’t know yet what the cost savings would be from the consolidations.”

    "It is still unknown whether each of these six schools will have their own athletic teams or if the teams in their respected sport will combine as well. This raised questions when it comes to the staffing of coaches. The NCAA has yet to rule on whether the teams are able to be merged."

    "Although much more will go into the integration, by this standard, it seems to be further along than just in planning."

    https://apscufku.tumblr.com/post/644...he-integration
    While the athletics may still have some steps to go to be formally set in stone...every indication I've heard is that they plan to keep their individual teams. I feel like that's one of the things that been more defined in this.

    Leave a comment:

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