PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Siena Heights University in southern Michigan between Detroit and Toledo announced it is closing in May 2026. They have an NAIA football team and at times were rumored to be a target of the GMAC and GLIAC.

[boatcapt]

This discussion is why it probably will never happen. People just don't have favorite ideas, they have favorite ideas and are downright hostile to any other idea!!

[IUPNation]

Yes and no. Mt. Lebanon is a former redline community and is still built around upper middle class families. Its one of those communities where you overpay big time for the status of living in it. Its not cheap to live in Mt. Lebanon. My house would be worth 50% more in Mt. Lebanon and my property tax rate would be 50% higher too. At least you get what you pay for in Lebo. The last remaining light rail line does go through Mt. Lebanon, so its possible to live there without a car, but the district doesn't offer bussing (holdover of the redline era), so you have to walk several hilly blocks or drop off in the car you might not have. The most common household from McKeesport Area SD is a black family with a $42k household income; the school district is 65% non-white - Mt Lebanon is 96% white and the median household income is $80k.

If they could afford to move to Mt Lebo, they're going to have a hard time acclimating.

If I can acclimate to living 4 years in Indiana County coming from Norristown, they’d be fine!!

[Fightingscot82]

You don’t think every parent in McKeesport would send their kid to Mt. Lebanon in a heartbeat?

Yes and no. Mt. Lebanon is a former redline community and is still built around upper middle class families. Its one of those communities where you overpay big time for the status of living in it. Its not cheap to live in Mt. Lebanon. My house would be worth 50% more in Mt. Lebanon and my property tax rate would be 50% higher too. At least you get what you pay for in Lebo. The last remaining light rail line does go through Mt. Lebanon, so its possible to live there without a car, but the district doesn't offer bussing (holdover of the redline era), so you have to walk several hilly blocks or drop off in the car you might not have. The most common household from McKeesport Area SD is a black family with a $42k household income; the school district is 65% non-white - Mt Lebanon is 96% white and the median household income is $80k.

If they could afford to move to Mt Lebo, they're going to have a hard time acclimating.

[IUPNation]

They're two very distinct communities and should offer the opportunities those communities want.

You don’t think every parent in McKeesport would send their kid to Mt. Lebanon in a heartbeat?

[IUPNation]

It is not a matter of "running the schools equally." The schools located in wealthier areas where many kids are the sons or daughters of professional people are usually going to have more kids who get a jump on learning. Family structures tend to be stronger as well. And the areas are often too far apart to solve it by busing kids from one area to another. I'm not against county districts — I think they can be useful in some areas — but they are not necessarily going to be a panacea for all that ails some schools in rural areas. For that matter, I know of no city school district where every school performs at the same level.

No they don’t…Philly has some outstanding public schools and some very bad ones…

Its biggest issue is they have a lot of old buildings that need to go. They are not conducive for today’s educational needs.

[Fightingscot82]

Then it makes more sense to fund schools from the county level. The biggest complaint I hear in my area is that the schools are getting too big because families keep
moving here for the school. Nobody should have to move to get better schools. Shouldn’t McKeesport High and Mt Lebanon High offer the same opportunities? Whst we have now is educational apartheid.

They're two very distinct communities and should offer the opportunities those communities want.

[IUPNation]

Maybe? But a lot of those communities are in similar economic situations. It’s pretty rare that an affluent community directly abuts a struggling one.

Then it makes more sense to fund schools from the county level. The biggest complaint I hear in my area is that the schools are getting too big because families keep
moving here for the school. Nobody should have to move to get better schools. Shouldn’t McKeesport High and Mt Lebanon High offer the same opportunities? Whst we have now is educational apartheid.

[Ship69]

If it's a county wide district and they don't run the schools equally then they have an admin issue. Parents should sue....

It is not a matter of "running the schools equally." The schools located in wealthier areas where many kids are the sons or daughters of professional people are usually going to have more kids who get a jump on learning. Family structures tend to be stronger as well. And the areas are often too far apart to solve it by busing kids from one area to another. I'm not against county districts — I think they can be useful in some areas — but they are not necessarily going to be a panacea for all that ails some schools in rural areas. For that matter, I know of no city school district where every school performs at the same level.

[Fightingscot82]

But won't it help with tax burdens across some of the communities? I have to imagine the school taxes in McKeesport are hellish and the rate through the roof. A community that distressed can't go it alone. Norristown SD would be in the toilet...and they already have outlandish school taxes....if they didn't have East and West Norriton in the district as well. Same with Coatesville..it has several affluent townships in the district that offset the lower incomes of the residents in Coatesville and South Coatesville.

I guess I'm biased seeing what I do where I live...Downingtown is the biggest district in Chester County with 13000 students overall...3 high schools campuses (East, West and STEM)..3 middle schools and 10 elementary schools serving Downingtown Borough and 7 townships (with a total resident population of nearly 80,000 people over 82 square miles). Its big and a lot to manage and yet it's one of the most desired schools districts in PA where families move her to get the kids in the schools. We have a large Indian population mainly because the STEM school is so good. It's pretty impressive...although West Chester SD is better with their finances and they are the second largest district with 12500 students.

Why can't we get this right across the entire commonwealth? Pennsylvania does everything the hard way...funding schools of all levels, roads, mass transit...everything is an issue because we can't get half of the state to buy into reforms because that's not how it was done in 1955.

The political insanity of Pennsylvania is what holds us back from being more successful as a state.

Maybe? But a lot of those communities are in similar economic situations. Its pretty rare that an affluent community directly abuts a struggling one.

[IUPNation]

In some of the more rural areas, you'd probably get rid of some administrative costs by reducing the number of (relatively low paid) superintendents and doing some streamlining of purchasing, etc. I've been to Forest County, which basically had two schools, East Forest and West Forest. Nothing much to do there. I'm familiar with some of the county school districts in Maryland to the south of me. Washington County is an interesting study because of its unusual shape. You've got a cluster of high schools around Hagerstown, the only sizable city in the district, and out west are relatively isolated areas in Clear Spring and Hancock. They're both far enough out west that busing kids in and out of there is impractical. So you're going to have those tiny high schools in Clear Spring and Hancock, with their own principals and assistants, no matter what you do. Also, district headquarters in Hagerstown has a tendency toward administrative creep. You have assistant superintendents for curriculum, etc., that you likely wouldn't have in a smaller district. And it's hard to get away from variance in quality. It's an open secret in Washington County that it's better to attend some high schools, usually in the more well-off areas of the county than others. While the school district support might not vary much from school to school, most people are aware that the background of the student population and parental support for the schools often are as important to success as money.

If it's a county wide district and they don't run the schools equally then they have an admin issue. Parents should sue....

[IUPNation]

I do agree. Lived near Little Washington when my son was in HS. He had the opportunity to attend and graduate from what was supposedly the smallest school district in PA. While he had great friends, great memories and a good basic education, I always felt he should be getting more for the amount of school taxes we paid (among the highest in the state). I on the other hand attended a mega HS in Maryland and I can attest to the cold socialist tone they bring when they focus on shoving the most students through the "education process" as efficiently as possible. It would be nice if they could come up with a happy median but the gov REALLY doesn't do that very well!!

It sounds like you were in a district that should have split the district into multiple high schools like is common in suburban Philadelphia.

Central Bucks, West Chester and Downingtown SD all have three high schools and I doubt they are cold and "socialist"

The only district that seems to want the massive single high school is North Penn...they had 3200 students this year.

Downingtown East had 1700 and West had 1400 and STEM had 962 students.

[Ship69]

I don't know about centralized schools in rural areas...but do you need all those admins to run them?

Every county in PA below 100,000people should have one district run by the county. It may have multiple high schools

Let's take Elk County. It has 30,000 people and served by SIX school districts.

That is crazy.

My response to the people who live vicariously through their local high school and it's athletics...get over it. Trotting out pop pop every fall to celebrate the 1960 title team needs to stop. Cut the cord. Half of this state wants to live in the past and that is why their towns and counties are falling off the cliff. You want better times? Figure out a new future and identity...it's not hard...Madonna has done it every other year since 1983! lol

The steel mills are not coming back.

The coal mines are not coming back.

The Pennsylvania Railroad is no more.

What made Pennsylvania an economic powerhouse through the 1950's is gone.

The Pennsylvania east of I-81 and then south of I-78 has it figured out and that is the part of the state that is growing.

There are pockets in the rest that are okay like State College and Pittsburgh...but Altoona, Johnstown, Erie....the northern tier? Time to stop wishing for the past to come back and join the modern world.

In some of the more rural areas, you'd probably get rid of some administrative costs by reducing the number of (relatively low paid) superintendents and doing some streamlining of purchasing, etc. I've been to Forest County, which basically had two schools, East Forest and West Forest. Nothing much to do there. I'm familiar with some of the county school districts in Maryland to the south of me. Washington County is an interesting study because of its unusual shape. You've got a cluster of high schools around Hagerstown, the only sizable city in the district, and out west are relatively isolated areas in Clear Spring and Hancock. They're both far enough out west that busing kids in and out of there is impractical. So you're going to have those tiny high schools in Clear Spring and Hancock, with their own principals and assistants, no matter what you do. Also, district headquarters in Hagerstown has a tendency toward administrative creep. You have assistant superintendents for curriculum, etc., that you likely wouldn't have in a smaller district. And it's hard to get away from variance in quality. It's an open secret in Washington County that it's better to attend some high schools, usually in the more well-off areas of the county than others. While the school district support might not vary much from school to school, most people are aware that the background of the student population and parental support for the schools often are as important to success as money.

[IUPNation]

I'm not saying it won't work. There's history with good consolidations - Armstrong is going well and so is Central Valley in Beaver County. The behind the scenes political work is going to be a lot of work and savings are always going to be negligible.

But won't it help with tax burdens across some of the communities? I have to imagine the school taxes in McKeesport are hellish and the rate through the roof. A community that distressed can't go it alone. Norristown SD would be in the toilet...and they already have outlandish school taxes....if they didn't have East and West Norriton in the district as well. Same with Coatesville..it has several affluent townships in the district that offset the lower incomes of the residents in Coatesville and South Coatesville.

I guess I'm biased seeing what I do where I live...Downingtown is the biggest district in Chester County with 13000 students overall...3 high schools campuses (East, West and STEM)..3 middle schools and 10 elementary schools serving Downingtown Borough and 7 townships (with a total resident population of nearly 80,000 people over 82 square miles). Its big and a lot to manage and yet it's one of the most desired schools districts in PA where families move her to get the kids in the schools. We have a large Indian population mainly because the STEM school is so good. It's pretty impressive...although West Chester SD is better with their finances and they are the second largest district with 12500 students.

Why can't we get this right across the entire commonwealth? Pennsylvania does everything the hard way...funding schools of all levels, roads, mass transit...everything is an issue because we can't get half of the state to buy into reforms because that's not how it was done in 1955.

The political insanity of Pennsylvania is what holds us back from being more successful as a state.

[IUPNation]

There surely will be savings to be had in some cases. But I worked for a used textbook company many years back, and some school districts in Pa. are unbelievably isolated, especially in areas such as the northern tier. You might save on administration, but having a centralized high school or middle school would be difficult due to transportation issues, so you'd still have a lot of small schools. Pa., of course, actually started consolidating well back into the '50s. Our Waynesboro School District was a consolidation of Waynesboro with two small township districts, but the distances for relatively close. When I started attending Mechanicsburg, it had only been about four years since the Mechanicsburg district had split into Mechanicsburg and Cumberland Valley. While school populations were relatively even then, they made the mistake of assigning the huge majority of undeveloped land to Cumberland Valley, so that CV is now three times the size of Mechanicsburg and growing so rapidly that it can barely keep up.

I agree that the rural areas in western Pa., where enrollments have fallen off the table, need a look. It will be complicated and there are a lot of factors to consider, plus the usual pushback you'll get from people who identify with their local schools.

I don't know about centralized schools in rural areas...but do you need all those admins to run them?

Every county in PA below 100,000people should have one district run by the county. It may have multiple high schools

Let's take Elk County. It has 30,000 people and served by SIX school districts.

That is crazy.

My response to the people who live vicariously through their local high school and it's athletics...get over it. Trotting out pop pop every fall to celebrate the 1960 title team needs to stop. Cut the cord. Half of this state wants to live in the past and that is why their towns and counties are falling off the cliff. You want better times? Figure out a new future and identity...it's not hard...Madonna has done it every other year since 1983! lol

The steel mills are not coming back.

The coal mines are not coming back.

The Pennsylvania Railroad is no more.

What made Pennsylvania an economic powerhouse through the 1950's is gone.

The Pennsylvania east of I-81 and then south of I-78 has it figured out and that is the part of the state that is growing.

There are pockets in the rest that are okay like State College and Pittsburgh...but Altoona, Johnstown, Erie....the northern tier? Time to stop wishing for the past to come back and join the modern world.