PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Ship69]

Yeah and that's pretty common even for private schools - but the transfer isn't seamless because the community college programs aren't designed to transfer elsewhere. Unless you're just taking general ed and survey classes with the intention of transferring, you're in an associate's degree program with its own capstone experiences. Just an example of different levels of education not preparing students for what society assumes/expects is the next step.

These recent agreements are designed to make transfer more seamless. That's why they were signed.

[Ship69]

Bloom has them with HACC, RACC, Bucks CCC, Montgomery CCC, Northampton CCC, and just about every other school in the state. In chasing after students at institutions were students aren't succeeding, how does that help enrollment? Reminds me of my cat chasing his tail.

So none of the students at any of these institutions are succeeding? I would think that most PASSHE schools had better try to recruit students wherever they can be found.

[iupgroundhog]

I

https://www.thepenn.org/news/rising-...e243ea046.html

I think it's hard for an individual school to control its destiny because Greenstein is the leader of it all and so many decisions come from Harrisburg; however, I think IUP could benefit from more effective leadership. At present, Driscoll assures us that "IUP will continue to function." Isn't that kind of a low bar? Not exactly inspirational.

[Bart]

I'm curious what the PASSHE schools' retention rates are for enrolled freshmen (i.e. what percent comes back for Year 2, etc.).

It seems to be almost like PSAC football ... they get all excited to sign 27 players and the next year 12 (or more) of them are already gone.

I

IUP’s low retention rate is also a factor in IUP’s falling revenue. Retention rate is the number of students who enroll at IUP and finish their degree here. If students transfer or drop out, that is lost revenue for the university since they would no longer pay for tuition and other costs. IUP’s average retention rate is much lower than the average retention rate of PASSHE schools. If IUP could match the PASSHE average, it would mean over $1 million in revenue each year. McCarthy emphasized the need in ensuring student success to raise retention rates.

https://www.thepenn.org/news/rising-...e243ea046.html

[Bart]

I know Shippensburg has deals with both Harrisburg Area Community College (HACC) and Hagerstown (Md.) Community College in our area to ensure their credits transfer. I believe Millersville is also hooked up with HACC.

Bloom has them with HACC, RACC, Bucks CCC, Montgomery CCC, Northampton CCC, and just about every other school in the state. In chasing after students at institutions were students aren't succeeding, how does that help enrollment? Reminds me of my cat chasing his tail.

[Fightingscot82]

I didn't know some of these dismal statistics for community colleges. I thought they were doing better.

I think the article sheds light on other issues, though, and a lot of it has more to do with the characteristics of the student population itself. The thing about how difficult it is to navigate the system seems to speak to the student's inability to follow instructions, follow through, and put out the effort to do it rather than relying on others to show them the way. I can't believe the matriculation process is that hard. It reminds me of the orientation at IUP in the Spring when I was a HS senior. I think I was the only kid there unaccompanied by my parents or guardians. I just drove 120 miles to Indiana in the morning, followed instructions, and figured it out on my own. I was independent. Maybe we should be teaching young people how to be independent..

There's a false narrative out there that alternatives to 4-year college are thriving. They're not. Everyone is down and mostly in line with the decline in the 18-25 population. Trade schools & union apprenticeship programs aren't up. Community college isn't up. Entry level work that only requires a diploma or GED isn't up. I believe its pushed and parroted by people trying to create narratives to fit their social/political agenda, but this is also the same population who like to believe "alternative facts."

[Fightingscot82]

I know Shippensburg has deals with both Harrisburg Area Community College (HACC) and Hagerstown (Md.) Community College in our area to ensure their credits transfer. I believe Millersville is also hooked up with HACC.

Yeah and that's pretty common even for private schools - but the transfer isn't seamless because the community college programs aren't designed to transfer elsewhere. Unless you're just taking general ed and survey classes with the intention of transferring, you're in an associate's degree program with its own capstone experiences. Just an example of different levels of education not preparing students for what society assumes/expects is the next step.

[iupgroundhog]

I didn't know some of these dismal statistics for community colleges. I thought they were doing better.

I think the article sheds light on other issues, though, and a lot of it has more to do with the characteristics of the student population itself. The thing about how difficult it is to navigate the system seems to speak to the student's inability to follow instructions, follow through, and put out the effort to do it rather than relying on others to show them the way. I can't believe the matriculation process is that hard. It reminds me of the orientation at IUP in the Spring when I was a HS senior. I think I was the only kid there unaccompanied by my parents or guardians. I just drove 120 miles to Indiana in the morning, followed instructions, and figured it out on my own. I was independent. Maybe we should be teaching young people how to be independent..

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I'm curious what the PASSHE schools' retention rates are for enrolled freshmen (i.e. what percent comes back for Year 2, etc.).

It seems to be almost like PSAC football ... they get all excited to sign 27 players and the next year 12 (or more) of them are already gone.

[Ship69]

Yep. Overall community college enrollment is up very slightly this spring - but I call BS because that count includes high school kids doing dual enrollment.

Vermont is in a very similar demographic/enrollment crunch right now. They merged state schools a few years ago and one of those mergers is continuing to fail. Its almost like its not the expenses that are causing the problem, is the inability to attract students.

I know Shippensburg has deals with both Harrisburg Area Community College (HACC) and Hagerstown (Md.) Community College in our area to ensure their credits transfer. I believe Millersville is also hooked up with HACC.

[Fightingscot82]

Community colleges failing too.
https://www.pressenterpriseonline.co...koning-is-here

Yep. Overall community college enrollment is up very slightly this spring - but I call BS because that count includes high school kids doing dual enrollment.

Vermont is in a very similar demographic/enrollment crunch right now. They merged state schools a few years ago and one of those mergers is continuing to fail. Its almost like its not the expenses that are causing the problem, is the inability to attract students.

[IUPNation]

Community colleges failing too.
https://www.pressenterpriseonline.co...koning-is-here

I can’t imagine Montco or Delco going belly up anytime soon but smaller ones probably are on shakier ground.

[Bart]

Community colleges failing too.
https://www.pressenterpriseonline.co...koning-is-here

[Ship69]

This sounds somewhat promising

https://www.pennlive.com/education/2...next-year.html

An additional $10 million should be relative chicken feed for a 14-school state university system. Most local K-12 boards have budgets many times that.

[Ship69]

New York Times article touching on small college towns in Pa.and shrinking enrollment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/13/b...s-economy.html

Gotta love this one letter writer who said students needed to get rid of the "bloated" state universities and attend Penn State or its branch campuses to get a "quality education." What crap. The major problem is the bloated Penn State system, which the divine wisdom of our state legislators allowed to directly compete with our state system. One of my roommates at Ship took summer courses at Penn State and found them easier than the ones he took at Ship. He also got better grades from Penn State.