PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPbigINDIANS]

In the past I've seen figures that indicate Shippensburg accounting majors' pass rate on their initial taking of the CPA exam compares very favorably with that of many larger and more famous universities.

It's just like buying a car. Some want the Mercedes logo. Some get to the same place with a Ford. We're probably all a little biased on here because we've come from the D2 schools.

But, you know, talk to people from Duquesne and they think we went to Saltsburg Community College.

I just crack up seeing people pay all that money to attend a Duquesne or Pitt, etc., and major in something like Marketing or Communications. Go to a state school for half the price ... you're getting the same job as us low-level state school people when you graduate.

But, they are perceived as 'better' schools by the vast majority of the population. These are the children today of the party era at IUP. I've talked to several friends who wouldn't even consider sending their kids here because of the reputation in the 80s/90s.

I would say it would be foolish to think some employers don't look down upon state schools compared to brand name schools. That little quip in the newsletter, etc., sounds better when it says Lafayette than Lock Haven.

[Ship69]

Actually, only 5% of the business schools in the world receive AACSB accreditation. I am not implying that the typical student from a PASSHE school is as ambitious or has had the same opportunity as an Ivy League School, but I am saying that there is a bar that needs to be passed to meet that accreditation. So from a perspective of what information is cover and what is learned, the opportunity is closer than you might think. Therefore, beyond the initial employment opportunity - a CPA from Clarion has as much opportunity as a CPA from a famous school. I firmly believe one should not overpay for a famous school because if the accreditations are on par, the work is put in by the student the end result is negligible. I speak this from experience as my kids 1st job was at a Big 4 firm and that is with a Bloomsburg degree.

In the past I've seen figures that indicate Shippensburg accounting majors' pass rate on their initial taking of the CPA exam compares very favorably with that of many larger and more famous universities.

[Fightingscot82]

Besides business, and education, or an MSW, what other majors have a separate accreditation from the college accreditation?

A lot do. Off the top of my head, there's ABET for engineering and computer science, CACREP for counseling, NASM for music, and ASHA for speech pathology and audiology.

[Bart]

Eh. 99.9% of colleges are accredited by some body. Accreditation isn't as much about quality as it is about following the accrediting body's audit processes. For individual programs, its a matter of if the school is willing to pay the money to have the program accredited (and follow the accreditor's guidelines). Its similar to B-Corp and LEED designation. You can have a carbon-neutral building but it won't be LEED certified without paying the thousands for the inspection.

For example, in Pennsylvania there are 27 AACSB-accredited schools of business; from PASSHE its Bloomsburg, Clarion, Indiana, Kutztown, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester. Penn State has 3 campuses: University Park, Erie, and Harrisburg. Pitt has one: Oakland.

Besides business, and education, or an MSW, what other majors have a separate accreditation from the college accreditation?

[only1]

Eh. 99.9% of colleges are accredited by some body. Accreditation isn't as much about quality as it is about following the accrediting body's audit processes. For individual programs, its a matter of if the school is willing to pay the money to have the program accredited (and follow the accreditor's guidelines). Its similar to B-Corp and LEED designation. You can have a carbon-neutral building but it won't be LEED certified without paying the thousands for the inspection.

For example, in Pennsylvania there are 27 AACSB-accredited schools of business; from PASSHE its Bloomsburg, Clarion, Indiana, Kutztown, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester. Penn State has 3 campuses: University Park, Erie, and Harrisburg. Pitt has one: Oakland.

Elite schools attract elite recruiting. So, no, its not a good idea to attend Kutztown if your dream is to work at Apple right out of college. On a similar note, some national corporations only recruit at elite schools and flagships. But at PASSHE schools if you work to focus on having a highly-engaged experience, you'll do just as well as people who attended bigger name schools. Teachers who went to Penn get paid just as much as teachers who attended Cheyney. Most of us have a story about working alongside people who attended big name schools.

Gallup partnered with Purdue to survey workers and they identified six high-impact experiences that predicted more fulfilling careers regardless of school: https://news.gallup.com/poll/182306/...paredness.aspx

Actually, only 5% of the business schools in the world receive AACSB accreditation. I am not implying that the typical student from a PASSHE school is as ambitious or has had the same opportunity as an Ivy League School, but I am saying that there is a bar that needs to be passed to meet that accreditation. So from a perspective of what information is cover and what is learned, the opportunity is closer than you might think. Therefore, beyond the initial employment opportunity - a CPA from Clarion has as much opportunity as a CPA from a famous school. I firmly believe one should not overpay for a famous school because if the accreditations are on par, the work is put in by the student the end result is negligible. I speak this from experience as my kids 1st job was at a Big 4 firm and that is with a Bloomsburg degree.

[iupgroundhog]

From today's Tribune Review:
https://triblive.com/opinion/editori...he-pipe-dream/

Clearly the writer does not understand the mission of the PASSHE system nor did they attempt to understand. They simply compare the requests to the "Big Dogs".

PASSHE Mission Statement:

"to provide high-quality education at the lowest possible cost to students; to increase educational attainment in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; to prepare students at the undergraduate and graduate levels for professional and personal success in their lives; and to contribute to the economic, social, and cultural development of Pennsylvania's communities, the commonwealth, and the nation. "

Yeah, that's a poorly-informed write-up. I had to go back and check to see if it was a letter to the editor from an opinionated reader. But it is an actual editorial from the publication ediitor.

They make the assertion comparing PASSHE to the "big dogs", which misses the point that PASSHE is owned by the state. Further, each state-related negotiates independently with the state. There might be a state-related budget but I believe Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln have to lobby on an individual basis. PSU is its own category. Plus, PASSHE enrolls more students across the system than any of the "big dogs."

The other misconception in the piece is that the triads are one entity "in name only." The writer says that is "clearly" but what is obvious (or clear) is that the writer has not followed what the integrations are all about. The editorial is a disservice.

[Fightingscot82]

It is really about whether or not your program/degree is accredited.
https://academicinfluence.com/resour...al%20licensure.

Our friends sent their kid out of high school to study at Pitt. Like many 18 year old students, he spent the spring sememster at home as he had a bit too much fun in Oakland and failed one of his classes. His parents told him he had to start at CCAC in the fall to prove he would be a more serious student before they paid for him to return to Pitt. He ended up taking a class at CCAC with the same professor that he had at Pitt. This really happened. One class was a several thousand dollars and the other a few hundred for the same material and professor. Don't overpay for a Big 10 or ACC football games.....just scalp the tickets before the game and save on tuition.....just my take.

Eh. 99.9% of colleges are accredited by some body. Accreditation isn't as much about quality as it is about following the accrediting body's audit processes. For individual programs, its a matter of if the school is willing to pay the money to have the program accredited (and follow the accreditor's guidelines). Its similar to B-Corp and LEED designation. You can have a carbon-neutral building but it won't be LEED certified without paying the thousands for the inspection.

For example, in Pennsylvania there are 27 AACSB-accredited schools of business; from PASSHE its Bloomsburg, Clarion, Indiana, Kutztown, Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, and West Chester. Penn State has 3 campuses: University Park, Erie, and Harrisburg. Pitt has one: Oakland.

Elite schools attract elite recruiting. So, no, its not a good idea to attend Kutztown if your dream is to work at Apple right out of college. On a similar note, some national corporations only recruit at elite schools and flagships. But at PASSHE schools if you work to focus on having a highly-engaged experience, you'll do just as well as people who attended bigger name schools. Teachers who went to Penn get paid just as much as teachers who attended Cheyney. Most of us have a story about working alongside people who attended big name schools.

Gallup partnered with Purdue to survey workers and they identified six high-impact experiences that predicted more fulfilling careers regardless of school: https://news.gallup.com/poll/182306/...paredness.aspx

[only1]

It is really about whether or not your program/degree is accredited.
https://academicinfluence.com/resour...al%20licensure.

Our friends sent their kid out of high school to study at Pitt. Like many 18 year old students, he spent the spring sememster at home as he had a bit too much fun in Oakland and failed one of his classes. His parents told him he had to start at CCAC in the fall to prove he would be a more serious student before they paid for him to return to Pitt. He ended up taking a class at CCAC with the same professor that he had at Pitt. This really happened. One class was a several thousand dollars and the other a few hundred for the same material and professor. Don't overpay for a Big 10 or ACC football games.....just scalp the tickets before the game and save on tuition.....just my take.

[boatcapt]

I think that its similar to comparing FBS to D2. Its not about quality its about size & scope. There are too many stories that say coursework is just as hard if not more difficult at PASSHE schools than the big names. One reason is that professor job opportunities are so limited that PhDs go where the jobs are. I had several faculty at Edinboro who had all degrees from Ivy League schools. One professor, new at the time, said he took a job at Edinboro because the pay was better. A second reason is that the emphasis in PASSHE is teaching not research. In PASSHE there are no grad student teaching assistants - every class is taught by a full time or part time professor. At Penn State, there are 23 year olds who graduated in May teaching a freshman class in August. This is because Penn State is focused on research - professors teach fewer classes each term because they're expected to spend more time researching and writing. But this doesn't mean PASSHE can't be that for some students. There are foremost researchers teaching in PASSHE, but that's really the difference, in PASSHE they're still teaching. PASSHE doesn't have full-time research institutes because we're not designed for that.

It's the eternal discussion, the lesser almost always argues that they are just as good the grouping above them and produces any number of stats and metrics to prove their case. Truth of the matter is that unless you are graduated from a true blue blood school OR have a specialized degree from the blue blood in that academic area, it really doesn't matter were you graduated from...A BS in Business from Penn State Main is just as likely to get you the same job as one from IUP or Pitt or Penn State Beaver or Frostburg State or Washington and Jefferson.

[Fightingscot82]

You might also say that about Pitt and Penn State degrees and one from a PASSHE school...You get a degree from both but the latter is a pump carafe variety.

I think that its similar to comparing FBS to D2. Its not about quality its about size & scope. There are too many stories that say coursework is just as hard if not more difficult at PASSHE schools than the big names. One reason is that professor job opportunities are so limited that PhDs go where the jobs are. I had several faculty at Edinboro who had all degrees from Ivy League schools. One professor, new at the time, said he took a job at Edinboro because the pay was better. A second reason is that the emphasis in PASSHE is teaching not research. In PASSHE there are no grad student teaching assistants - every class is taught by a full time or part time professor. At Penn State, there are 23 year olds who graduated in May teaching a freshman class in August. This is because Penn State is focused on research - professors teach fewer classes each term because they're expected to spend more time researching and writing. But this doesn't mean PASSHE can't be that for some students. There are foremost researchers teaching in PASSHE, but that's really the difference, in PASSHE they're still teaching. PASSHE doesn't have full-time research institutes because we're not designed for that.

[boatcapt]

The med and law schools are first rate. There are hotels with a Starbucks in the lobby and hotels with Starbucks coffee in push pump carafes. Both give you coffee in the Starbucks cup. But they're not the same. That's what happens at the Pitt and Penn State branches.

You might also say that about Pitt and Penn State degrees and one from a PASSHE school...You get a degree from both but the latter is a pump carafe variety.

[only1]

From today's Tribune Review:
https://triblive.com/opinion/editori...he-pipe-dream/

Clearly the writer does not understand the mission of the PASSHE system nor did they attempt to understand. They simply compare the requests to the "Big Dogs".

PASSHE Mission Statement:

"to provide high-quality education at the lowest possible cost to students; to increase educational attainment in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; to prepare students at the undergraduate and graduate levels for professional and personal success in their lives; and to contribute to the economic, social, and cultural development of Pennsylvania's communities, the commonwealth, and the nation. "

[Fightingscot82]

The med and law schools are first rate. There are hotels with a Starbucks in the lobby and hotels with Starbucks coffee in push pump carafes. Both give you coffee in the Starbucks cup. But they're not the same. That's what happens at the Pitt and Penn State branches.

[Ship69]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[IUPNation]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.