PASSHE Institutions Merging

[CALUPA69]

You're doing some serious pick-and-choosing with those sports. Tell me why softball and women's volleyball are in a different category than wrestling and field hockey.

Both SB and VB are played by all 18 PSAC schools while WR (8) and FH (11) not so much. Doesn't make them less important to the participants or their schools but I was pointing out that the 6 sports most widely played were not really viable in 4 of the 6 branches of the merged institutions. IMO, were it not for NCAA minimum requirements, there really isn't a reason other than schedule filling and enrollment/tuition boosting for these schools to participate in those six sports. Purely personal observation.

[jrshooter]

Truth be told other than CAL and BLOOM, the other four schools are largely schedule filler. In the last 50 years counting FB, BB, MBB, WBB, SB and VB CAL has won 37 and BLOOM 25 championships. The other four have a combined 47 championships in those sports in 50 years. Specialty sports (WR, FH, M&W SW, M&W TF) aside, the athletics departments at these locations are basically enrollment and tuition boosters.

You're doing some serious pick-and-choosing with those sports. Tell me why softball and women's volleyball are in a different category than wrestling and field hockey.

[CALUPA69]

The interesting thing will be how these 'triad' athletic departments co-exist.

Does one become the 'football school' and the other becomes the 'basketball school', etc.

I realize they will all three have a football team but I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

Truth be told other than CAL and BLOOM, the other four schools are largely schedule filler. In the last 50 years counting FB, BB, MBB, WBB, SB and VB CAL has won 37 and BLOOM 25 championships. The other four have a combined 47 championships in those sports in 50 years. Specialty sports (WR, FH, M&W SW, M&W TF) aside, the athletics departments at these locations are basically enrollment and tuition boosters.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

There's never been a rule preventing Penn State Behrend from having football.

Anyhow, this merger is basically the same as one Vermont did a couple years ago, combining Johnson State and Lyndon State into Northern Vermont University while maintaining separate athletic programs.

The interesting thing will be how these 'triad' athletic departments co-exist.

Does one become the 'football school' and the other becomes the 'basketball school', etc.

I realize they will all three have a football team but I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

[Inkblot]

So I guess this clears the way for any state school with multiple locations to start duplicate athletic programs. Heck, guess it would be OK for Penn State to start football programs at any of it's satelite campuses as a means of increasing enrollment...Let's see, I can play DII football at Edinboro OR D1 at Penn State Behrend. Hummmmm...Which one should I choose?? Maybe Penn State Beaver could use a shot in the enrolement arm? No problem, start a football team and watch enrollment jump!

There's never been a rule preventing Penn State Behrend from having football.

Anyhow, this merger is basically the same as one Vermont did a couple years ago, combining Johnson State and Lyndon State into Northern Vermont University while maintaining separate athletic programs.

[CALUPA69]

So I guess this clears the way for any state school with multiple locations to start duplicate athletic programs. Heck, guess it would be OK for Penn State to start football programs at any of it's satelite campuses as a means of increasing enrollment...Let's see, I can play DII football at Edinboro OR D1 at Penn State Behrend. Hummmmm...Which one should I choose?? Maybe Penn State Beaver could use a shot in the enrolement arm? No problem, start a football team and watch enrollment jump!

I'd settle for UPJ MOUNTAIN CATS football so SHU can return to the MEC ;)

[boatcapt]

To quote the band Dawes, it's a little bit of everything. Hanna hasn't been in charge long so he bears the least blame. Greenstein is only to blame for concocting this stupid merger plan. I think the blame lies the most with the PASSHE Board of Governors and the local Councils of Trustees. They all sat there and took every administrator in the last 20 years at face value. Some of it was cockeyed optimism, some of it was falsehood. They also allowed first time presidents to enact really half-baked tuition pricing gimmicks. You know how/why someone will attend a place like Mansfield? Its cheap and they feel comfortable/wanted.

Mansfield might have the #2 music program in PASSHE after West Chester. That alone might be worth keeping them open in person.

Bottom line is to much general capacity state-wide. What's called for is specialization. Mansfield, for example, should be focused on their music department and providing training/degrees related to that dicipline...Other struggling schools should be focused on what they do better than almost any other PASSHE school, and focus on providing education/degrees in that area. THEN, as a system, you minimize the offerings for those programs at the other PASSHE schools. Maybe you let the other schools maintain a minimal number of music courses at say Cal, but if a student at Cal want's to get a major and CERTAINLY an advanced degree in music, they are going to need to transfer.

[boatcapt]

The NCAA will allow both triads to maintain distinct athletic programs: https://buhuskies.com/news/2022/4/20...versities.aspx https://calvulcans.com/news/2022/4/2...-programs.aspx

So I guess this clears the way for any state school with multiple locations to start duplicate athletic programs. Heck, guess it would be OK for Penn State to start football programs at any of it's satelite campuses as a means of increasing enrollment...Let's see, I can play DII football at Edinboro OR D1 at Penn State Behrend. Hummmmm...Which one should I choose?? Maybe Penn State Beaver could use a shot in the enrolement arm? No problem, start a football team and watch enrollment jump!

[Inkblot]

The NCAA will allow both triads to maintain distinct athletic programs: https://buhuskies.com/news/2022/4/20...versities.aspx https://calvulcans.com/news/2022/4/2...-programs.aspx

[Fightingscot82]

It would be good if you knew what you are writing about, but in in major portions of your post you do not.

Okay, please enlighten me.

[iupgroundhog]

It should be noted that Chad Hurley was an Art major.

[GregD]

Music is a good example of the lack of individuality and strategic direction for the 14 schools. Really only Cheyney has a niche in culture and academic focus. The other 13 schools all generalized in the mold of comprehensive liberal arts schools. That sounds great to faculty and deans but now students don't want to study liberal arts at our schools. The system didn't need 12 music degree programs. That's 12 programs on top of those at Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Duquesne, Mercyhurst, Allegheny, Messiah, Lebanon Valley, Temple, Curtis Institute, etc. Both Edinboro and Clarion cut their music programs, which had wide reaches. There were not similar increases in interest at the remaining PASSHE music programs on that side of the state, IUP and Slippery Rock. In fact both are down a lot too. Art and music are a losing proposition for mediocre programs and small schools: its very expensive compared to other majors and beyond art/music education there is general uncertainty about what you do post-graduation and most real jobs using those degrees are gig work with low pay and no benefits. Not exactly attractive when you're expecting to carry $30k in loan debt.

It would be good if you knew what you are writing about, but in in major portions of your post you do not.

[IUPNation]

The state of the IUP Marching Band tells the sad story of music at IUP these days.

Still no update on a new band director to salvage the wreckage and put Crimson Abomination out of its misery?

[Fightingscot82]

I don't know what the situation is today but that sounds like a Pittsburgh perspective.

Sure because that's where I am and the region IUP is most invested in. Growing up, all my music teachers went to IUP and Duquesne. One went to Edinboro. But in high school I started getting music student teachers from YSU and SRU. My kids' five music teachers are from Duquesne and YSU.

[iupgroundhog]

I think there's a huge difference between offering classes in a subject and offering a degree program. One is about educational philosophy, the other about market demand.

You're right about IUP music educators but they had that market cut out from under them by Slippery Rock, Duquesne, and Youngstown State.

I don't know what the situation is today but that sounds like a Pittsburgh perspective.