PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Ship69]

Pitt and Penn State are virtually shielded from public record. They're not independent non-profits so they don't have to file a 990 tax filing. But they're not state entities so they're not subject to the open records law. So the public has to rely on trustees reports, federal reporting, etc.

There are no secrets at PASSHE schools. Any one of us can file a RTK on what any employee says about us. Or to solve any rumor of scandal.

True. When the salaries of Big Ten football coaches are reported, there are two you generally don't get, Northwestern (private school) and Penn State.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Really, a lot of the PASSHE woes can be traced back to Corbett and his cuts..although state support was declining before and didn't really rise much after. Corbett took some $175 million in funding away a year.

That said, yes...the lobbying is a big part. PASSHE, for years did a terrible job of working with the PA Government on funding. And now, as schools fail, the politicians look at them as failing businesses...and the underfunding issue becomes politicized and not fixed.

They are.

[complaint_hopeful]

Really, a lot of the PASSHE woes can be traced back to Corbett and his cuts..although state support was declining before and didn't really rise much after. Corbett took some $175 million in funding away a year.

That said, yes...the lobbying is a big part. PASSHE, for years did a terrible job of working with the PA Government on funding. And now, as schools fail, the politicians look at them as failing businesses...and the underfunding issue becomes politicized and not fixed.

[iupgroundhog]

Why are we subsidizing horse racing?

It's because they have better lobbyists than PASSHE.

[Fightingscot82]

Interesting stats. We always tend to hear of the declining enrollments at the PASSHE schools, but not so much at the PSU branches. I knew the Harrisburg PSU campus was one of the stronger ones. One of my grandsons got his undergrad engineering degree there. He's doing MBA work at Ship.

Pitt and Penn State are virtually shielded from public record. They're not independent non-profits so they don't have to file a 990 tax filing. But they're not state entities so they're not subject to the open records law. So the public has to rely on trustees reports, federal reporting, etc.

There are no secrets at PASSHE schools. Any one of us can file a RTK on what any employee says about us. Or to solve any rumor of scandal.

[Ship69]

Penn State is our land grant university. They're not going away. Pitt was private from 1787 to 1966 when the state gave them a permanent bailout from bankruptcy. Same goes for Temple and Lincoln. The idea was to alleviate the burden on Penn State and provide greater access to an R1 education. Other states have done this - Ohio took Akron, Cincinnati, Toledo, & YSU under their wings with the same rationale. I honestly don't know what the rationale was for Lincoln - maybe being the first HBCU (Cheyney is older but wasn't a college/university until later).

The problem with Penn State & Pitt is the mission creep done through the branch campuses. Some of them - UPJ, Pitt Bradford, Penn State Erie ('Behrend'), etc are robust campuses with grad programs and NCAA athletics. They directly compete for students. There's a rumor that Penn State was going to test football at the Altoona campus in the 90s until Paterno put an end to it.

Most of them are failing enterprises. This data is a little old and since it came from the Philly Trib it doesn't consider Pitt.

Interesting stats. We always tend to hear of the declining enrollments at the PASSHE schools, but not so much at the PSU branches. I knew the Harrisburg PSU campus was one of the stronger ones. One of my grandsons got his undergrad engineering degree there. He's doing MBA work at Ship.

[Ship69]

Why are we subsidizing horse racing?

Good question. And each race horse is subsidized to a great extent than the average Pa. college student.

[complaint_hopeful]

Off Topic but WPXI has reported a shooting this morning at or very close to the Cal U campus. Alleged shooter is in custody.

As far as I can tell in the news, a gun was fired but no one was shot. It appears to be a few blocks off campus. The articles I read say no injuries.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Off Topic but WPXI has reported a shooting this morning at or very close to the Cal U campus. Alleged shooter is in custody.

[Fightingscot82]

Why do Pitt and Penn State, etc receive so much state funding? Essentially PA subsidizes them to compete with PASSHE?

Why don't politicians divert some of this money to PASSHE? Both Reps and Dems have been in power over the last 22 years since this dramatic cut in funding...

Penn State is our land grant university. They're not going away. Pitt was private from 1787 to 1966 when the state gave them a permanent bailout from bankruptcy. Same goes for Temple and Lincoln. The idea was to alleviate the burden on Penn State and provide greater access to an R1 education. Other states have done this - Ohio took Akron, Cincinnati, Toledo, & YSU under their wings with the same rationale. I honestly don't know what the rationale was for Lincoln - maybe being the first HBCU (Cheyney is older but wasn't a college/university until later).

The problem with Penn State & Pitt is the mission creep done through the branch campuses. Some of them - UPJ, Pitt Bradford, Penn State Erie ('Behrend'), etc are robust campuses with grad programs and NCAA athletics. They directly compete for students. There's a rumor that Penn State was going to test football at the Altoona campus in the 90s until Paterno put an end to it.

Most of them are failing enterprises. This data is a little old and since it came from the Philly Trib it doesn't consider Pitt.

[complaint_hopeful]

Why do Pitt and Penn State, etc receive so much state funding? Essentially PA subsidizes them to compete with PASSHE?

Why don't politicians divert some of this money to PASSHE? Both Reps and Dems have been in power over the last 22 years since this dramatic cut in funding...

[complaint_hopeful]

I agree with both of you to an extent.

The PA GOP doesn't like to fund things and spends more time obstructing the PA Dems and parroting national GOP talking points than they do legislating. If they do its copy & paste from the Commonwealth Foundation. The PA Dems seem to just try to increase funding. If they do come up with anything novel the funding source is too novel for anyone to take seriously: a new tax, shifting funds from a previously restricted fund, etc.

Most states have their lottery revenue fund public education, so there's a leg up in funding source. But most states also don't have the legacy state infrastructure that PA has: 121 state parks (with virtually no significant revenue streams like other states), state hospitals, etc.

That's basically my point, and you did a great job of hitting on reasons. There's been a lot of talk, but when it comes down to it...funding for PASSHE has decreased or stayed the same for 20 years. No matter who has been in power. No matter what noble intentions they may have.

And I agree that the Dems are way more for Higher Ed, but when they've been in power...that hasn't resulted in substantial funding increases. Now at this point of the game, PA is some $330 million a year behind the average state near us. That's hard to make up!

It is crazy to me that PA subsidizes horse racing.

[IUPNation]

I agree with both of you to an extent.

The PA GOP doesn't like to fund things and spends more time obstructing the PA Dems and parroting national GOP talking points than they do legislating. If they do its copy & paste from the Commonwealth Foundation. The PA Dems seem to just try to increase funding. If they do come up with anything novel the funding source is too novel for anyone to take seriously: a new tax, shifting funds from a previously restricted fund, etc.

Most states have their lottery revenue fund public education, so there's a leg up in funding source. But most states also don't have the legacy state infrastructure that PA has: 121 state parks (with virtually no significant revenue streams like other states), state hospitals, etc.

[Fightingscot82]

It's not both. What is that ? An attempt to make everybody happy. It's by definition. On the state level, PA Democrats support public education to the extent that they can. It's just something they do. Meanwhile, there is not much support among Republicans when it comes to funding public education. Some Republicans in PA want to do away with public education altogether.

These are the positions the two parties take in PA when it comes to funding public education. If you are a Republican, face up to the values of your party. Don't try to say things that they are not. If you don't agree with it, leave the party.

I agree with both of you to an extent.

The PA GOP doesn't like to fund things and spends more time obstructing the PA Dems and parroting national GOP talking points than they do legislating. If they do its copy & paste from the Commonwealth Foundation. The PA Dems seem to just try to increase funding. If they do come up with anything novel the funding source is too novel for anyone to take seriously: a new tax, shifting funds from a previously restricted fund, etc.

Most states have their lottery revenue fund public education, so there's a leg up in funding source. But most states also don't have the legacy state infrastructure that PA has: 121 state parks (with virtually no significant revenue streams like other states), state hospitals, etc.

[iupgroundhog]

In general, I always love seeing arguments about why things are messed up and people blaming the other party.

It's both. And the whole party system is the problem. A lot of people mindlessly follow whatever their party is about. In reality, it isn't that cut and dry for humans. Our preferences are over a spectrum and I'm sure that most of us don't have views 100% aligned with a party.

As for why PASSHE's funding is bad. Well, it's been cut or stayed the same for like 20 years. That covers both parties. It's not like 1 got in there, drastically raised it and the other cut it. And then, both sides are like 'Hey - Why can't you make it? Your expenses must be way too high! Cut!'

And then it becomes political where one will come in and advocate for more spending, without actually giving much more money. They do that to get voters.

ie They'd rather talk about the problem and pick sides than FIX the issue!

It's not both. What is that ? An attempt to make everybody happy. It's by definition. On the state level, PA Democrats support public education to the extent that they can. It's just something they do. Meanwhile, there is not much support among Republicans when it comes to funding public education. Some Republicans in PA want to do away with public education altogether.

These are the positions the two parties take in PA when it comes to funding public education. If you are a Republican, face up to the values of your party. Don't try to say things that they are not. If you don't agree with it, leave the party.