PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

He said of the 299 comments, 90% or so are opinions. About 10% (of overall) are actionable.

That he said that is pretty shocking. It's disrespectful. It's dismissive of the views of the general public. Don't be manipulated by this guy.

The purpose of a comment period is to get feedback from the public, AKA "opinions." The purpose of that 60 day comment period is NOT to obtain actionable policy ideas from the public. that's the job of the policymakers. Hello?

What he's doing now is distraction. What is germane about the comments is how many support the plan and how many oppose it, or question it. He doesn't want to address that. He's not going to confront the idea that it's unpopular. That would mean his defeat and put a crimp in his career objectives.

It's apparent that this guy is going to try to jam this down the throats of Pennsylvanians, regardless of anything anybody else says.

For beginners, the whole thing is no good without a decision fro the NCAA and I don't think that is forthcoming. I really do think it is going to be a disaster. With the money and energy already spent on it, it already is a disaster. Especially for the schools in the West.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep. This turned into a big PR thing for the Integration. Some of the BOG members are speaking and it sounds like they feel this is 'historic' and a good thing in general.

So to summarize, they took 299 probably highly negative comments. Dismissed a bunch. Cherry picked some and summarized how they were dealing witht he concern.

As for the negative comments - I put some in about how the timeframe is unrealistic to implement this and some other feedback. I guess those were in the pile that were dismissed.

ie...I'd say this is a done deal that the BOG approves this. They seemed to speak glowingly about the process.

Was there anything on the NCAA? I didn't catch it, but I had a call for a few minutes.

A lot of costs in higher ed are based on scale. The bigger the size the more something costs. For managers, they're now jockeying to be the one final *insert title* at the new university that is 2.5 times the size of their current school. The interim president already got a $75k raise for covering Edinboro - I imagine she'll get Driscoll money when its all said and done. I didn't catch anything on the NCAA and to be honest, this decision is probably not even a blip on the radar of anyone at the NCAA. It should - a wave of consolidations are coming.

For those who live in the area - how has athletics gone with the Thomas Jefferson/Philadelphia University merger? With Georgia Souther/Armstrong State they just cut all sports from Armstrong.

[complaint_hopeful]

Watching this BOG meeting, the chancellor presented that to date 299 comments have been left on the PASSHE Public Comment page. Of the 299, 229 were dismissed as "viewpoint comments about the plan, approach, etc." This means no matter how unpopular the public groundswell is, only the legislature can stop it now.

Yep. This turned into a big PR thing for the Integration. Some of the BOG members are speaking and it sounds like they feel this is 'historic' and a good thing in general.

So to summarize, they took 299 probably highly negative comments. Dismissed a bunch. Cherry picked some and summarized how they were dealing witht he concern.

As for the negative comments - I put some in about how the timeframe is unrealistic to implement this and some other feedback. I guess those were in the pile that were dismissed.

ie...I'd say this is a done deal that the BOG approves this. They seemed to speak glowingly about the process.

Was there anything on the NCAA? I didn't catch it, but I had a call for a few minutes.

[Fightingscot82]

Watching this BOG meeting, the chancellor presented that to date 299 comments have been left on the PASSHE Public Comment page. Of the 299, 229 were dismissed as "viewpoint comments about the plan, approach, etc." This means no matter how unpopular the public groundswell is, only the legislature can stop it now.

[Fightingscot82]

Yeah so if they rotate...your class would be at each school what once ever 3 years or 1.5 years? And these colleges aren't that close. Like doctors offices are generally within an hour or so of each other. Like do you expect the same prof to drive to Clarion to teach a class 1 semester? Then Edinboro the next? And Cal U the next?

I think in theory this all sounds great. But when you think of the use cases, it breaks down.

Like I've heard they're looking at linking classrooms on campuses with video. (Which has been done in the state system to some extent for over a decade.) So you'd have a professor in 1 room on a campus and link that room to students at another campus and they'd watch the class on TV.

I think there could be some market for these use cases. But, I don't think any of this is going to make these schools grow unless they reduce costs. I don't see students paying full price for this.

When my parents attended Edinboro in the early 1970s adjunct faculty weren't a thing, so they had classes live broadcast on CCTV. Not ideal but also previously done. The same for using the "teledoc" model for student services like billing, financial aid, advising, etc. But those little micro negative experiences add up over time, especially when students know students are having a "normal" experience at Slippery Rock or IUP for the same price.

[complaint_hopeful]

He said of the 299 comments, 90% or so are opinions. About 10% (of overall) are actionable.

[complaint_hopeful]

The Board of Governors will webcast its integrations update workshop tomorrow, May 26, during which we will provide a briefing on our efforts to receive, review, and utilize the feedback received since the 60-day public comment period began April 28. (Because this is a workshop rather than an official meeting, no board actions will be taken.)

We have been collecting public comments through email, the website, and by other means and actively identifying those actionable items that can help improve the integrations plans. We will share an update regarding those efforts and provide some more details about the upcoming public hearings that are slated for next month.

Pennsylvania's State System of Higher Education - YouTube

And of course the meeting starts off with the Chancellor running through his slide deck of why we are Integrating and why we need to. And how innovative this is.

He seems quite subdued.

[complaint_hopeful]

In principle, advanced courses that would have 5-10 students could be taught as one class with 15-30 students, So any program that has only a few majors - for example physics or audiology, could offer the intro courses at all three schools, and provide the advanced classes in hybrid mode in one section, parsing out the advanced courses to the school with the faculty with the appropriate expertise, and wherever there happens to be an available faculty to teach the course. I can see the courses rotating around the schools rather than being located at just one. I think they get the idea from how Doctors work these days, rotating from office to office to increase access. There will be the same issues as well.

Yeah so if they rotate...your class would be at each school what once ever 3 years or 1.5 years? And these colleges aren't that close. Like doctors offices are generally within an hour or so of each other. Like do you expect the same prof to drive to Clarion to teach a class 1 semester? Then Edinboro the next? And Cal U the next?

I did hear they were kicking around the idea of a student being on Campus 1 for Year 1, Campus 2 for Year 2, and Campus 3 for Year 3.

I think in theory this all sounds great. But when you think of the use cases, it breaks down.

Like I've heard they're looking at linking classrooms on campuses with video. (Which has been done in the state system to some extent for over a decade.) So you'd have a professor in 1 room on a campus and link that room to students at another campus and they'd watch the class on TV.

I think there could be some market for these use cases. But, I don't think any of this is going to make these schools grow unless they reduce costs. I don't see students paying full price for this.

[complaint_hopeful]

The Board of Governors will webcast its integrations update workshop tomorrow, May 26, during which we will provide a briefing on our efforts to receive, review, and utilize the feedback received since the 60-day public comment period began April 28. (Because this is a workshop rather than an official meeting, no board actions will be taken.)

We have been collecting public comments through email, the website, and by other means and actively identifying those actionable items that can help improve the integrations plans. We will share an update regarding those efforts and provide some more details about the upcoming public hearings that are slated for next month.

Pennsylvania's State System of Higher Education - YouTube

[ironmaniup]

For an individual class that's possible. I believe accreditation requires so many credits to earned at the degree-granting school. Sure, Edinboro with its large & deep art school that expands some opportunities for students attending Cal & Clarion to a degree because they're not going to approve a Cal accounting major to take an animation class. But Edinboro does have financial planning classes that could supplement business majors at the other two.

The only way to really save money is reduce staffing. This is really going to hurt student-facing services. A less personal admissions process reduces the likelihood an applicant feels wanted & welcome. An overloaded financial aid office could overlook a big error or cause staff turnover.

So much of what's wrong with this system is management making strategic decisions based on budget expenses. Seemingly very little thought into what drives revenue. I can rattle off probably a dozen examples.

In principle, advanced courses that would have 5-10 students could be taught as one class with 15-30 students, So any program that has only a few majors - for example physics or audiology, could offer the intro courses at all three schools, and provide the advanced classes in hybrid mode in one section, parsing out the advanced courses to the school with the faculty with the appropriate expertise, and wherever there happens to be an available faculty to teach the course. I can see the courses rotating around the schools rather than being located at just one. I think they get the idea from how Doctors work these days, rotating from office to office to increase access. There will be the same issues as well.

[Fightingscot82]

They keep saying over and over that the Triads will increase breadth of programs that schools can offer...

But, I don't see how with them eliminating things, unless it's just by taking it online. Which could be done now. Just enroll at the school in PASSHE that offers it.

For an individual class that's possible. I believe accreditation requires so many credits to earned at the degree-granting school. Sure, Edinboro with its large & deep art school that expands some opportunities for students attending Cal & Clarion to a degree because they're not going to approve a Cal accounting major to take an animation class. But Edinboro does have financial planning classes that could supplement business majors at the other two.

The only way to really save money is reduce staffing. This is really going to hurt student-facing services. A less personal admissions process reduces the likelihood an applicant feels wanted & welcome. An overloaded financial aid office could overlook a big error or cause staff turnover.

So much of what's wrong with this system is management making strategic decisions based on budget expenses. Seemingly very little thought into what drives revenue. I can rattle off probably a dozen examples.

[complaint_hopeful]

First, it sounds like you are familiar with last week's meeting with the marketing firm haha.

Second, the plan specifically says they're not dropping sports. They're actually adding sports. The preliminary research showed that athletes are 10-12% of each school's enrollment so cutting any sport actually reduces revenue beyond the expense reduction. Plus the athletic scholarship endowments are all held by each school's foundations, which are legally separate. The state can't force them to combine resources. In PASSHE, athletic scholarships aren't budgeted so on paper every player brings in the same amount of revenue. So any reduction in player rosters means less tuition revenue for the school. Even a poorly performing football program still has a positive P/L sheet if the expenses are kept in line.

This plan can't use a typical corporate merger model. There's too much debt and too much politics involved. All this plan does is a) minimize the supervision line of the chancellor, b) make PASSHE a state agency with better finances, and c) give the chancellor more opportunities to do podcast interviews repeating his wonk-speak about transformation. It doesn't lower the cost to students, it doesn't increase access to students, and it doesn't improve the education of students.

They keep saying over and over that the Triads will increase breadth of programs that schools can offer...

But, I don't see how with them eliminating things, unless it's just by taking it online. Which could be done now. Just enroll at the school in PASSHE that offers it.

[Fightingscot82]

IMO, the best choice, if a combined name is the decision, would be Pennsylvania Western. Shortened to PaWest-Edinboro, PaWest-Clarion and PaWest-Califoria ( I hate it versus CAL U, but these are tough times). Given that Boro(49-58)and Clarion(36-74) have been generally less than stellar in football, they should both drop that sport and spread whatever schollies are available to other sports. Once again I hate it but unless new funding can be found, the VULCANS need to cut back on marginal sports and redistribute whatever aid is available. Time will tell.

First, it sounds like you are familiar with last week's meeting with the marketing firm haha.

Second, the plan specifically says they're not dropping sports. They're actually adding sports. The preliminary research showed that athletes are 10-12% of each school's enrollment so cutting any sport actually reduces revenue beyond the expense reduction. Plus the athletic scholarship endowments are all held by each school's foundations, which are legally separate. The state can't force them to combine resources. In PASSHE, athletic scholarships aren't budgeted so on paper every player brings in the same amount of revenue. So any reduction in player rosters means less tuition revenue for the school. Even a poorly performing football program still has a positive P/L sheet if the expenses are kept in line.

This plan can't use a typical corporate merger model. There's too much debt and too much politics involved. All this plan does is a) minimize the supervision line of the chancellor, b) make PASSHE a state agency with better finances, and c) give the chancellor more opportunities to do podcast interviews repeating his wonk-speak about transformation. It doesn't lower the cost to students, it doesn't increase access to students, and it doesn't improve the education of students.

[CALUPA69]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the universities won't keep their branding for long. There's some lip service to names & nicknames staying - but not really. I have been volunteering on a focus group working with a Boston-area marketing firm to flesh out marketing & branding for the western triad. There will be a new name, website, etc. and the campuses will stay named for the universities that once operated there - but similar to Penn State campuses it will be "New Name - Clarion Golden Eagles". Let's say PASSHE picks something stupid like Western Triad University. ESU will now be playing Western Triad - California.

The proposed names ranged from "I guess that's alright" to "there's no f-ing way you're serious about this one." Most were kitchy names that sounded more like a new community college or a for-profit online school.

The thing other schools should be concerned about is whether this plan is a test for future consolidations. The system has clearly identified IUP and West Chester as the only untouchable universities - possible hub campuses for future consolidation based on east/west. Although University of Eastern Pennsylvania at East Stroudsburg is a mouth full.

IMO, the best choice, if a combined name is the decision, would be Pennsylvania Western. Shortened to PaWest-Edinboro, PaWest-Clarion and PaWest-Califoria ( I hate it versus CAL U, but these are tough times). Given that Boro(49-58)and Clarion(36-74) have been generally less than stellar in football, they should both drop that sport and spread whatever schollies are available to other sports. Once again I hate it but unless new funding can be found, the VULCANS need to cut back on marginal sports and redistribute whatever aid is available. Time will tell.

[complaint_hopeful]

All I'll say is you'd be surprised on some of those things. But, I'll agree to disagree from here. Time will tell...