PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Sad to see the campus changes. At Bloom I spent my first summer semester living in Montour Hall, visited Waller Administration to deal with financial aid, and took a few courses in Old Science. They have all been scheduled for demolition for the past few years. https://buvoice.com/7485/news/montou...her%20projects.

Old Science Hall was what I thought a college building should be with old creaky hardwood floors and wood trim everywhere; Something out of an old movie with tiered seating with fixed long desks, huge chalkboards, and a formal look. It cost about $100,000 when it was built in 1906, and was renovated twice, last in1988. Now only Carver Hall is left as the oldest building on campus. What a loss. I barely recognize the campus anymore.

At least Sutton Hall is on the National Register of Historic Places so I think it has some protection.

[Bart]

Sad to see the campus changes. At Bloom I spent my first summer semester living in Montour Hall, visited Waller Administration to deal with financial aid, and took a few courses in Old Science. They have all been scheduled for demolition for the past few years. https://buvoice.com/7485/news/montou...her%20projects.

Old Science Hall was what I thought a college building should be with old creaky hardwood floors and wood trim everywhere; Something out of an old movie with tiered seating with fixed long desks, huge chalkboards, and a formal look. It cost about $100,000 when it was built in 1906, and was renovated twice, last in1988. Now only Carver Hall is left as the oldest building on campus. What a loss. I barely recognize the campus anymore.

[Ship69]

You also have to wonder how schools like Clarion are even keeping the lights on. I went up there for IUP's football game this year and felt like I was in an abandoned town.

We have some schools now with very high percentages of the enrollment being just athletes.

As you said it will shake itself out but we are soon going to have about 5-6 more versions of Mansfield.

Yeah, with Mansfield they already don't have football, and you have to wonder how long they can keep it up. It's been a long time since they've been competitive in any of the major sports and it's hard to see them getting better. When I was going to school in the way-back of the '60s, they actually were one of the league's better basketball programs, but that went downhill to the extent that even Ship, hardly one of the league's better basketball programs prior to the Chris Fite era, has a 48-9 series edge over them since 1983. It's still a rather remote location up there, which is a turnoff for a lot of kids. A high school girl from our church some years ago was looking to major in music and took a trip up there to check it out. She noted that the big thing there seemed to be a trip to Wal-Mart and quickly crossed it off her list. Along with Clarion, their location is really a minus. Slippery Rock and IUP look pretty solid in the West, and West Chester is probably too big to fail in the East. I think Ship and Millersville can probably survive as long as they have good leadership. We'll see.

[IUPNation]

I don't think that stadium would make a Top 200 to-do list at IUP right now.

Almost everything is fairly new..what else do they need..The Cig is the most decrepit building on campus.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I'm not sure how "cash-strapped" Pennsylvania is compared to most other states. We're certainly not among the more wealthy states, but most stats I've seen rate the state as no worse than average or in the upper half of the country by per capita income and other indicators. I would agree the money isn't always spent wisely as other states with lower overall incomes seem to manage to run state university systems with far lower tuitions than ours. While some of our state administrations probably overspend, it's also true that trying to hold the line on measures that would increase state revenue are going to bite you sooner or later, unless inflation is zero. Legislators have been debating a tax on the so-called "games of chance," which would seem to be a no-brainer, for years. In my area, we're getting a lot of people moving up from the Maryland and D.C. metro areas as they consider taxes and housing costs in our area to be a relative bargain.

Referendums on large projects aren't necessarily a bad thing, but there are pluses and minuses. They assume a somewhat informed electorate that will make rational decisions about the benefits (or non-benefits) of some projects. I've seen areas that effectively use referendums, but I've also seen locales where voters consistently reject any school bond issues despite the needs for new plant or adding staff. With more and more local areas becoming news deserts as local news outlets slash staffs or fade away completely, it's becoming harder and harder to keep track of what's happening at borough councils, school boards, etc. The consistent response in my deeply red area would likely be to reject any tax increase of any kind in perpetuity.

Your point about possibly throwing good money after bad at some of our campuses is not unreasonable. The willy-nilly approach to higher education in Pa. without any overriding plan has caused its share of problems, such as basically allowing Penn State to establish a sort of shadow satellite university system, some of them four-year campuses, alongside PASSHE. There are probably just too many campuses at present given the emerging demographics of the state, and it's going to sort itself out one way or another. I find the average Pa. resident who hasn't attended a PASSHE school or had a child attend one often has little understanding of the system or even what schools are in it. Most people I've talked with are shocked to find out that the majority of funding for the state-owned schools doesn't actually come from the state any more. It's going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

You also have to wonder how schools like Clarion are even keeping the lights on. I went up there for IUP's football game this year and felt like I was in an abandoned town.

We have some schools now with very high percentages of the enrollment being just athletes.

As you said it will shake itself out but we are soon going to have about 5-6 more versions of Mansfield.

[Ship69]

These are interesting points of view. Before I go on it should be noted that we IUP'ers might have a different opinion of Ship's Ralph Heiges, since it's been discussed lately how Heiges, who had been passed over for the presidency of IUP, led the charge to oust IUP from the PSAC in the late 60's/early 70's. But I digress.

When I look over this list of approved capital expenditures, they mostly all make sense. I would question the substantial outlay for renovations to the Edinboro Field House. Is that a good investment for the average PA taxpayer? Let's face it, the Edinboro campus, along with the other PennWest campuses are facing dire consequences. It's to the point where a reasonable person might question investing in the physical plant at these schools. We are all sports fans, but isn't it possible that the PennWest campuses are in danger of not continuing as traditional college campuses, considering that their main aspect is becoming online learning, and wouldn't this render the kind of cash infusion to renovate an old FH to be 'money down the drain?'

I would compare this process to California (the state). Of course, California is considered to be one of the most liberal states and is the object of eternal scorn from conservatives. However, California expenditures of this nature are heavily reliant on voter referenda, as opposed to PA where the public agency puts forth a detailed budget request and then the elected representative body votes on it. In California, often it's the people who decide this kind of stuff. I wonder if a referendum were placed on the ballot in November in PA asking if those renovations to the Edinboro FH should be approved, citing pros and cons, whether the renovations would go forth. I think there is a solid argument that is stupid spending. Most of the other line items on the list seem to have a lot of value to Pennsylvanians. Most of it is for demolition and things which lead to physical plant efficiencies. The academic plant improvements would seem to advance the interests of PA residents.

The thing with this stuff in PA and PASSHE, in particular, is that political influence comes in to play to a large extent. Elected leaders from the districts receiving the money will lobby for it and they are often successful. A lot of horse trading goes on with this stuff. In a cash-strapped state like PA, I don't know if that is the best approach.

I'm not sure how "cash-strapped" Pennsylvania is compared to most other states. We're certainly not among the more wealthy states, but most stats I've seen rate the state as no worse than average or in the upper half of the country by per capita income and other indicators. I would agree the money isn't always spent wisely as other states with lower overall incomes seem to manage to run state university systems with far lower tuitions than ours. While some of our state administrations probably overspend, it's also true that trying to hold the line on measures that would increase state revenue are going to bite you sooner or later, unless inflation is zero. Legislators have been debating a tax on the so-called "games of chance," which would seem to be a no-brainer, for years. In my area, we're getting a lot of people moving up from the Maryland and D.C. metro areas as they consider taxes and housing costs in our area to be a relative bargain.

Referendums on large projects aren't necessarily a bad thing, but there are pluses and minuses. They assume a somewhat informed electorate that will make rational decisions about the benefits (or non-benefits) of some projects. I've seen areas that effectively use referendums, but I've also seen locales where voters consistently reject any school bond issues despite the needs for new plant or adding staff. With more and more local areas becoming news deserts as local news outlets slash staffs or fade away completely, it's becoming harder and harder to keep track of what's happening at borough councils, school boards, etc. The consistent response in my deeply red area would likely be to reject any tax increase of any kind in perpetuity.

Your point about possibly throwing good money after bad at some of our campuses is not unreasonable. The willy-nilly approach to higher education in Pa. without any overriding plan has caused its share of problems, such as basically allowing Penn State to establish a sort of shadow satellite university system, some of them four-year campuses, alongside PASSHE. There are probably just too many campuses at present given the emerging demographics of the state, and it's going to sort itself out one way or another. I find the average Pa. resident who hasn't attended a PASSHE school or had a child attend one often has little understanding of the system or even what schools are in it. Most people I've talked with are shocked to find out that the majority of funding for the state-owned schools doesn't actually come from the state any more. It's going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[iupgroundhog]

There was a lot of new building going on in the '60s and early '70s to accommodate the increased student populations from the boomer generation. My class, which entered college in 1965, was the first freshman class of more than 1,000 at Ship. Before the big college projects, there had been furious building at the elementary and high school levels as our generation moved along. My K-8 elementary school in Illinois, which had 74 students at the time of my birth, had 747 by the time I was a fifth-grader there in 1957. My first high school, built in 1953, was becoming crowded enough that our high school district put up an entire new high school that opened in 1962.

Ralph Heiges, a veteran of the state system, helped bring some projects to Ship as president when I attended. Unfortunately for me, most of the stuff was completed after I graduated.

I doubt we'll ever see that kind of building explosion again, and now the new buildings from that era have become the oldies of today. Some will be renovated and replaced, but as you noted the red tape (along with ever-increasing construction costs) will make it a slow process.

These are interesting points of view. Before I go on it should be noted that we IUP'ers might have a different opinion of Ship's Ralph Heiges, since it's been discussed lately how Heiges, who had been passed over for the presidency of IUP, led the charge to oust IUP from the PSAC in the late 60's/early 70's. But I digress.

When I look over this list of approved capital expenditures, they mostly all make sense. I would question the substantial outlay for renovations to the Edinboro Field House. Is that a good investment for the average PA taxpayer? Let's face it, the Edinboro campus, along with the other PennWest campuses are facing dire consequences. It's to the point where a reasonable person might question investing in the physical plant at these schools. We are all sports fans, but isn't it possible that the PennWest campuses are in danger of not continuing as traditional college campuses, considering that their main aspect is becoming online learning, and wouldn't this render the kind of cash infusion to renovate an old FH to be 'money down the drain?'

I would compare this process to California (the state). Of course, California is considered to be one of the most liberal states and is the object of eternal scorn from conservatives. However, California expenditures of this nature are heavily reliant on voter referenda, as opposed to PA where the public agency puts forth a detailed budget request and then the elected representative body votes on it. In California, often it's the people who decide this kind of stuff. I wonder if a referendum were placed on the ballot in November in PA asking if those renovations to the Edinboro FH should be approved, citing pros and cons, whether the renovations would go forth. I think there is a solid argument that is stupid spending. Most of the other line items on the list seem to have a lot of value to Pennsylvanians. Most of it is for demolition and things which lead to physical plant efficiencies. The academic plant improvements would seem to advance the interests of PA residents.

The thing with this stuff in PA and PASSHE, in particular, is that political influence comes in to play to a large extent. Elected leaders from the districts receiving the money will lobby for it and they are often successful. A lot of horse trading goes on with this stuff. In a cash-strapped state like PA, I don't know if that is the best approach.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Where is the money for a new stadium for IUP? Come on Josh..fork it over.

I don't think that stadium would make a Top 200 to-do list at IUP right now.

[Ship69]

PASSHE state funding for construction still moves at a snails pace. The school has to identify the need, the trustees have to approve requests going 5 years out, the system board of governors has to approve, and the state legislature has to approve. Only then do you find out a year when you can put the design work out for bid, then once design is approved (and within budget), can you put construction out for bid. By the time dirt is moved or walls are knocked down, you're 5-10 years down the road and costs have surely increased.

My office is in a building designed in the 70s, renovation plans approved in 2015, designs approved in 2017, and completed fall 2024. By then so much had changed in staffing and org charts that we're almost out of room.

There was a lot of new building going on in the '60s and early '70s to accommodate the increased student populations from the boomer generation. My class, which entered college in 1965, was the first freshman class of more than 1,000 at Ship. Before the big college projects, there had been furious building at the elementary and high school levels as our generation moved along. My K-8 elementary school in Illinois, which had 74 students at the time of my birth, had 747 by the time I was a fifth-grader there in 1957. My first high school, built in 1953, was becoming crowded enough that our high school district put up an entire new high school that opened in 1962.

Ralph Heiges, a veteran of the state system, helped bring some projects to Ship as president when I attended. Unfortunately for me, most of the stuff was completed after I graduated.

I doubt we'll ever see that kind of building explosion again, and now the new buildings from that era have become the oldies of today. Some will be renovated and replaced, but as you noted the red tape (along with ever-increasing construction costs) will make it a slow process.

[Fightingscot82]

I think it wasn't on the list because it was authorized some time ago. From what I've heard, I think there'll be more than $40 million in it by the time it's done. I believe the Franklin Center was completed in the '70s shortly after I graduated when Ship, like several schools, was in something of a building boom. We really had only one new academic building, Shippen Hall, when I arrive at Ship in '65 and also a new dorm (the original Naugle Hall, since torn down) and a new dining hall (Reisner, still there). Old Main, built in 1871, was still being used for classes and as a men's dorm on the upper floors. As smoking was allowed at the time, it's probably a miracle there was never a fire at the place. The auditorium dated to 1948, the gym was built in the '30s, and some of the other building weren't much younger than Old Main. It's hard for me to realize that some of the "new" buildings put up after I graduated are now more than 50 years old.

Now that I think about it, I heard a figure of about $80 million mentioned if Ship had done all the projects they wanted to do at Franklin Center. Costs, naturally, inflated from the moment the project was announced. They won't be doing everything they wanted to do at the building, simply because they aren't going to get that amount.

PASSHE state funding for construction still moves at a snails pace. The school has to identify the need, the trustees have to approve requests going 5 years out, the system board of governors has to approve, and the state legislature has to approve. Only then do you find out a year when you can put the design work out for bid, then once design is approved (and within budget), can you put construction out for bid. By the time dirt is moved or walls are knocked down, you're 5-10 years down the road and costs have surely increased.

My office is in a building designed in the 70s, renovation plans approved in 2015, designs approved in 2017, and completed fall 2024. By then so much had changed in staffing and org charts that we're almost out of room.

[Ship69]

Yeah that wasn't on the list for some reason. The documents I can see online suggest the renovation is $40M. Anymore, it really depends on the HVAC needs. A lot of our academic buildings were built in the 70s and that stuff is inefficient and now in need of total replacement.

I think it wasn't on the list because it was authorized some time ago. From what I've heard, I think there'll be more than $40 million in it by the time it's done. I believe the Franklin Center was completed in the '70s shortly after I graduated when Ship, like several schools, was in something of a building boom. We really had only one new academic building, Shippen Hall, when I arrived at Ship in '65 and also a new dorm (the original Naugle Hall, since torn down) and a new dining hall (Reisner, still there). Old Main, built in 1871, was still being used for classes and as a men's dorm on the upper floors. As smoking was allowed at the time, it's probably a miracle there was never a fire at the place. The auditorium dated to 1948, the gym was built in the '30s, and some of the other building weren't much younger than Old Main. It's hard for me to realize that some of the "new" buildings put up after I graduated are now more than 50 years old.

Now that I think about it, I heard a figure of about $80 million mentioned if Ship had done all the projects they wanted to do at Franklin Center. Costs, naturally, inflated from the moment the project was announced. They won't be doing everything they wanted to do at the building, simply because they aren't going to get that amount.

[IUPNation]

For those concerned, here are the state funded construction projects coming down the pike at PASSHE schools (as of October 2025):

Bloomsburg
Andruss Library $4.5M renovation
$7M in demolition

Cheyney
Ada Georges Dining Hall $2M renovation
King Hall (dorm) $21M renovation
$20M in various roof repairs
$3M in demolition

Clarion
$10M in demolition

East Stroudsburg
Central steam heating system $20M upgrades
Flagler Metzger $20M to renovate to relocate back end business offices
Steam plant $20M upgrades

Edinboro
Campus sidewalk & road repairs $20M
McComb Field House $45M renovation
$10M in demolition (likely Lawrence Towers dorms)

Indiana
Culinary building $5M replacement
Medical school construction $55M
$10M in demolition

Kutztown
Keystone Hall $16.5M renovation
Lytle Hall $35M renovation

Lock Haven
North Hall $1M demolition
Raub Hall $20M renovation

Millersville
Brooks Hall $1M renovation
Osburn $14M renovation
Science Center $60M full replacement
$8M in demolition

Shippensburg
Residence hall HVAC replacement $13M
Various buildings $10M central access controls

Slippery Rock
Campus electrical system upgrade $25M
Morrow Field House $43M renovation

West Chester
Campus electrical system upgrade $32M
Pump House $10M replacement

Where is the money for a new stadium for IUP? Come on Josh..fork it over.

[Fightingscot82]

What are they doing up there with the bubble dome?

Keeping it inflated. Its relatively useless beyond indoor track, of which its a HUGE venue on this side of the state for high school track. But the sport court middle should have been turf. They hold some big wrestling tournaments in there as well.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The design work is usually 10% of the estimated cost. That's a big one right off the bat. But its also the most important "first impression" building on any of our campuses. A lot of people will go to events in our arenas/field houses before they're college age or without any connection to the schools. Its gotta look pretty - that wasn't even on the radar when most of them were designed and built in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

McComb needs it so bad. I give the current AD and coaches a lot of credit for gussying up the place: painted bleachers, painted terrible 70s subway tile throughout the building, put some nice displays in the lobby, new floor & scoreboards, etc. But its a 55 year old facility that's only had minor work done on it. It gets a lot of use: 5 sports hold regular games there. There's a pool which is always a moneypit. Like every other old field house, it has racquetball courts that are oddly shaped and need repurposed. When they were designed, there were no team meeting rooms, recruiting rooms, or weight rooms. All of the utilities need a full replacement. At Edinboro, you need to go above and beyond minimal ADA compliance. Its also a major hub for high school sports and events. Local high schools use it for graduation. The pool is where most locals learn how to swim. I've been wishing for this for 25 years, so I'm excited to see what the design looks like.

Morrow is the rare field house that also houses an academic department (health & phys ed - plus exercise science is housed in an attached annex). The SRU AD has done some impressive upgrades to at least make the court not look its age: no floor, goals, seats, scoreboards, lighting, etc. I heard that there were locker rooms without hot water - and some without water at all. The translucent glass panels definitely look old. There are offices inside of the larger arena footprint. The indoor practice floor looks rough (they should convert it to turf and turn it sideways). There's a lot of potential.

What are they doing up there with the bubble dome?

[Fightingscot82]

Using McComb as an example ... $45m seems like a ton of money to the average Joe.

But, you're talking a major project on a large, highly aged and dilapidated building.

That amount of money will go real fast.

Lot of mouth's get fed on these projects - starting long before the project even actually starts.

The design work is usually 10% of the estimated cost. That's a big one right off the bat. But its also the most important "first impression" building on any of our campuses. A lot of people will go to events in our arenas/field houses before they're college age or without any connection to the schools. Its gotta look pretty - that wasn't even on the radar when most of them were designed and built in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

McComb needs it so bad. I give the current AD and coaches a lot of credit for gussying up the place: painted bleachers, painted terrible 70s subway tile throughout the building, put some nice displays in the lobby, new floor & scoreboards, etc. But its a 55 year old facility that's only had minor work done on it. It gets a lot of use: 5 sports hold regular games there. There's a pool which is always a moneypit. Like every other old field house, it has racquetball courts that are oddly shaped and need repurposed. When they were designed, there were no team meeting rooms, recruiting rooms, or weight rooms. All of the utilities need a full replacement. At Edinboro, you need to go above and beyond minimal ADA compliance. Its also a major hub for high school sports and events. Local high schools use it for graduation. The pool is where most locals learn how to swim. I've been wishing for this for 25 years, so I'm excited to see what the design looks like.

Morrow is the rare field house that also houses an academic department (health & phys ed - plus exercise science is housed in an attached annex). The SRU AD has done some impressive upgrades to at least make the court not look its age: no floor, goals, seats, scoreboards, lighting, etc. I heard that there were locker rooms without hot water - and some without water at all. The translucent glass panels definitely look old. There are offices inside of the larger arena footprint. The indoor practice floor looks rough (they should convert it to turf and turn it sideways). There's a lot of potential.