PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

Well, not at Shippensburg. The Raiders only played them nine times from 1958 through 2006 and had a 6-3 record in those games.

Nope…not Ship or IUP.

IUP only played Mansfield 13 times with a 9-4 record vs the Mountaineers.

[iupgroundhog]

I was watching my favorite sport last night (Jeopardy) and the $600 clue in the category "On the Rocks" was "The nickname for teams at this Pennsylvania university is The Rock and the mascot is Rocky the Lion. The first contestant to ring in said "Penn State" but the second contestant, in a not very confident way, said "Slippery Rock?"

I think I would have said "Albright?"

[Tdobson]

Those are some great memories. Back then there was no Division 2 and most current D2 and D3 schools were NAIA. Those schools you mention were frequent non-conference opponents: Brockport, Westminster, Waynesburg, Geneva, Geneseo, etc.

I wish we could go back to playing say Westminster and Geneva.

[Ship69]

Hey some coaches built their resume beating on Mansfield for a few decades.

Well, not at Shippensburg. The Raiders only played them nine times from 1958 through 2006 and had a 6-3 record in those games.

[IUPNation]

Hey some coaches built their resume beating on Mansfield for a few decades.

[Fightingscot82]

Those are some great memories. Back then there was no Division 2 and most current D2 and D3 schools were NAIA. Those schools you mention were frequent non-conference opponents: Brockport, Westminster, Waynesburg, Geneva, Geneseo, etc.

[Ship69]

Yep. The one outlier year was when Mansfield somehow landed Ernest "Poohbear" McNeal, a 5-7 RB transfer from Bowling Green who rushed for over 3,600 yards in three seasons. He transferred to IUP and was the favorite to replace Chris Morgan but ended up accumulating only 600 yards in 12 games.

Your memory is right about playing Mansfield. Since Ship was still considered a "West" team, they likely wouldn't have played them. As you said, the schedule was shorter but also I believe the league wasn't mandating or scheduling crossovers. I just did a quick glance at Edinboro's historical schedule and they played a grand total of three games in the 1960s against what were then PSAC East teams: Cheyney and East Stroudsburg in 1967 and just East Stroudsburg in 1968.

Actually, my memory did somewhat fail me as we did play Mansfield my senior year. It was the opening game and a 27-14 win for Ship at Mansfield that year, so it probably just didn't register. That season, which would have been 1968, was Ship's only winning season when I attended as the Raiders went 5-3. Other wins that year were Slippery Rock, Edinboro, Lock Haven, and Millersville. The three losses against IUP, Cal, and Clarion were one-sided. Ship and IUP usually played close games in those days, but Cal and Clarion dominated us in the late '60s. Ship actually played Mansfield again and lost the year after I graduated as the Raiders had a miserable 1-7 season in '69. There were few OOC games in those years. We played Brockport, a New York school, twice when I was there and beat them both times. The real outlier was in 1965 when Ship played Hillsdale College in the final game of the season. Hillsdale was highly rated that season, and Ship's 35-14 loss to them was actually considered a good effort as the Raiders went 2-6 that year with wins against Shepherd and Lock Haven. Shepherd was nothing like they've been in recent years. Back then, you usually scheduled them when you wanted to pick up a win.

A major difference now is the sheer size of the players. In my freshman year, Ship had two guys on the o-line who weighed under 200 pounds. That was pretty small even back then, and our backs often didn't get a lot of running room, which was too bad since the backs were pretty good. Ed Hammers, our fullback, had seasons of 745 and 695 yards running behind that undersized line (in 9-game seasons) and was twice named first-team All-Conference. He also was a good baseball player and is in Ship's Hall of Fame. If he'd played now, there's a good chance he would have been in the portal after his sophomore year!

[Fightingscot82]

They were not very good in football. They'd have an occasional winning or .500 season interspersed with some really bad seasons. Their football history actually went back a long way to the early 20th century. By the '80s and '90s they were pretty terrible. I think their last winning season was an 8-3 outlier in 2003, but after some horrible seasons the next couple of years they dropped D2 football.

I don't think we played Mansfield during my four years at Ship in the '60s. We only played eight- and nine-game seasons then, so you could go quite a while without playing someone. Also, I believe they were in the East and Ship was in the West at that time. It was quite a while ago. West Chester was the East power, and Clarion and Cal had some good teams when I was there. IUP and Slippery Rock were very so-so at the time, certainly nothing like they are now. But of course that was before we had a D2. It was either big-college or small-college ball back then.

Yep. The one outlier year was when Mansfield somehow landed Ernest "Poohbear" McNeal, a 5-7 RB transfer from Bowling Green who rushed for over 3,600 yards in three seasons. He transferred to IUP and was the favorite to replace Chris Morgan but ended up accumulating only 600 yards in 12 games.

Your memory is right about playing Mansfield. Since Ship was still considered a "West" team, they likely wouldn't have played them. As you said, the schedule was shorter but also I believe the league wasn't mandating or scheduling crossovers. I just did a quick glance at Edinboro's historical schedule and they played a grand total of three games in the 1960s against what were then PSAC East teams: Cheyney and East Stroudsburg in 1967 and just East Stroudsburg in 1968.

[Ship69]

Question about Mansfield. Even when they had D2 football, did they have many winning seasons? I don't recall them having many during their active years, but I may just be to young to know.

They were not very good in football. They'd have an occasional winning or .500 season interspersed with some really bad seasons. Their football history actually went back a long way to the early 20th century. By the '80s and '90s they were pretty terrible. I think their last winning season was an 8-3 outlier in 2003, but after some horrible seasons the next couple of years they dropped D2 football.

I don't think we played Mansfield during my four years at Ship in the '60s. We only played eight- and nine-game seasons then, so you could go quite a while without playing someone. Also, I believe they were in the East and Ship was in the West at that time. It was quite a while ago. West Chester was the East power, and Clarion and Cal had some good teams when I was there. IUP and Slippery Rock were very so-so at the time, certainly nothing like they are now. But of course that was before we had a D2. It was either big-college or small-college ball back then.

[Tdobson]

Yeah, with Mansfield they already don't have football, and you have to wonder how long they can keep it up. It's been a long time since they've been competitive in any of the major sports and it's hard to see them getting better. When I was going to school in the way-back of the '60s, they actually were one of the league's better basketball programs, but that went downhill to the extent that even Ship, hardly one of the league's better basketball programs prior to the Chris Fite era, has a 48-9 series edge over them since 1983. It's still a rather remote location up there, which is a turnoff for a lot of kids. A high school girl from our church some years ago was looking to major in music and took a trip up there to check it out. She noted that the big thing there seemed to be a trip to Wal-Mart and quickly crossed it off her list. Along with Clarion, their location is really a minus. Slippery Rock and IUP look pretty solid in the West, and West Chester is probably too big to fail in the East. I think Ship and Millersville can probably survive as long as they have good leadership. We'll see.

Question about Mansfield. Even when they had D2 football, did they have many winning seasons? I don't recall them having many during their active years, but I may just be to young to know.

[Fightingscot82]

Any truth to the rumblings I'm hearing that Commonwealth has just enough money in the coffers to make it to October of this year?

That's a little overblown and oversimplified. Our schools run on a lot of periodic dumps of revenue: state appropriation is transferred quarterly and federal funding from grants, loans, and programs like FWS come twice a year (a very small amount in summer). That's about 80% of the revenue. But where this could have some truth behind it was the state budget fiasco. The state budget wasn't passed until mid-November, so PASSHE didn't get its money until December and the system raised tuition a smidge to help float the difference. Based on publicly shared info, as of June 30, Commonwealth had cash on hand to cover 72 days of operation. To compare, East Stroudsburg had cash on hand to cover 241 days of operation and Indiana had 95 days worth. Slippery Rock's the best with 298 days of cash on hand. Commonwealth's operating budget projects a -7.3% operating margin. That's negative. ESU is the best with a projected 3.3% margin.

Commonwealth, Cheyney, and Penn West are all in a significant financial strain as they're stuck in a cycle of fixed costs and continuous drops in revenue (tuition). A drop in this year's enrollment likely leads to a budget shortfall and triggers a smaller appropriation next year. But budgeting is also getting harder to predict. Several schools have experienced large swings in freshmen enrollment and the effects of inflation will continue to be a challenge. The largest expense (payroll) is largely fixed and easy to budget for with nearly every employee being under a 5-year union contract.

[Tdobson]

Any truth to the rumblings I'm hearing that Commonwealth has just enough money in the coffers to make it to October of this year?

Whoa? I hope that isn't true.

[ssidiver]

Any truth to the rumblings I'm hearing that Commonwealth has just enough money in the coffers to make it to October of this year?

[Tdobson]

At least Sutton Hall is on the National Register of Historic Places so I think it has some protection.

I used to love walking past Sutton Hall with its Christmas decorations. It was beautiful. I always wished I had the opportunity to see the whole thing before they tore part of it down to build the library.

When I attended IUP, Sutton Hall still had an old elevator. Does anyone know if it is still around? I mean, old, it was open and had just like a gate that you closed.

[Bart]

A better reply would have been that AI is using me.

It took nearly 24 minutes and two replies ago to come up with that? AI would be faster if it was using you. I have to go shovel snow. God bless.