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  • Horror Child
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

    They are behind. West Chester still uses a lot of dorms that are old and outdated. The fact that West Chester’s rapid enrollment increase didn’t translate into a lot of new dorm space, sure there are a few newer dorms that were squeezed into the campus..but for the most part you have a lot of commuters. I’ve heard conversations where kids went away to school, either didn’t do well or couldn’t afford to stay, and they transferred home to West Chester and commute from home. That is a built in advantage for West Chester.

    IUP is not a commuter school. The West Chester campus is fine but it is not as nice as IUP’s. The IUP campus has come a long way i over the years. No more scrap heap. Most of the old buildings from the mid 1900’s are gone or renovated. The fact IUP was left out of any plan says to me they see IUP is poised to bounce back. It has everything in place once the new Science building is in place.

    I also find it interesting that thetraditionally top three Pee Sack schools academically are also the three most expensive. It is easy for West Chester to charge less when the need for housing and food options aren’t really quite a priority for a part of their student body that doesn’t require either. Why invest cash to tear down all
    of those 1960’s Dorms and build new cafeterias if they aren’t necessary? At IUP, they needed to go. Those buildings were crap.
    NOW I remember who it was!!!!!

    West Chester's enrollment increase didn't translate into a lot of new dorm space because the drop in birth rate that started west of the Susquehanna is making its way east. They did not overbuild housing like so many other PASSHE schools did.

    Where can one find the academic ranking of the PSAC schools that you reference?

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    That's my take. He was just trying to say that if we don't change the path we're on...it's going to fail and we'll need to disband. More context is he has been doing townhalls where people ask him questions and he gave off-the-cuff answers. His answer was totally politicized.

    I was listening to a Podcast from Raging Chicken and he spoke at I believe Kutztown and he made a comment about 'fail fast' and then modify. He's trying to use like Gates Foundation and Silicon Valley strategies. But, some people hear 'fail fast' and think that means this whole thing will fail.

    Frankly, I like that someone is trying new strategies. This thing has been limping along too long. That said, I just don't know that the Universities are capable of changing this drastically. And it may be too late financially.
    Raging Chicken is a Kutztown professor so everything on there is viewed through that lens.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    I don't think he self-destructed. I think his hyperbole was taken out of context so they could use it against him. He's right - if they don't find some radical solutions the financially solvent schools will drain their savings covering for the failing schools. I'm not defending him - I think it was more of a gaffe that's being politicized for one group's gain.
    That's my take. He was just trying to say that if we don't change the path we're on...it's going to fail and we'll need to disband. More context is he has been doing townhalls where people ask him questions and he gave off-the-cuff answers. His answer was totally politicized.

    I was listening to a Podcast from Raging Chicken and he spoke at I believe Kutztown and he made a comment about 'fail fast' and then modify. He's trying to use like Gates Foundation and Silicon Valley strategies. But, some people hear 'fail fast' and think that means this whole thing will fail.

    Frankly, I like that someone is trying new strategies. This thing has been limping along too long. That said, I just don't know that the Universities are capable of changing this drastically. And it may be too late financially.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    Sure does.

    Where I believe the faculty union and others are wrong is thinking that if they force his resignation that this plan will go away. The chancellor answers to the system board of governors - if they were against this plan they would have put the kibosh on it months ago. With the chancellor gone the system stays the course without a top leader. Nothing changes. Its a wasted effort but that union has never seen a labor vs. management fight they didn't like.

    The real villain is the state legislature's hands-off oversight and unwillingness to prioritize funding for state-owned universities. Or even failure to gain the knowledge on the benefits of a well-educated population.

    For naming, I don't see a problem with directional names. They're the least offensive and the least likely to be rejected by the public.
    I've been saying that too..the real issue is the state funding.

    But yeah...if the Integrations don't happen...schools will likely start to fail financially. If the Integrations do happen, they have somewhat of a better chance to survive.

    He's also right that you can't cut your way out of this. Some of these schools have been cutting costs for 7-8 years. Gotta grow. But that will be very difficult.

    IF the Chancellor were to leave, the Integration goes forward but without leadership.

    The Faculty Unions love to fight, but they have no leverage. That's essentially what I took Greenstein's disband the system comments to mean. Without Integrations, some schools fail for sure.
    Last edited by complaint_hopeful; 03-25-2021, 01:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    All true but to self-destruct like he did in response to the resistance was a very bad thing. Inherent to his role is to be able to balance all the factions and I think he kind of lost it. That kind of thing just doesn't blow over in this environment.

    As for names, I agree. Directional names followed by the town make sense. Also, just because there is a tiny school in NEPA called Keystone doesn't mean the PASSHE can't use the word Keystone in their name. It would be clearly a distinct entity. Keystone is a good word to consider.
    I don't think he self-destructed. I think his hyperbole was taken out of context so they could use it against him. He's right - if they don't find some radical solutions the financially solvent schools will drain their savings covering for the failing schools. I'm not defending him - I think it was more of a gaffe that's being politicized for one group's gain.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    Sure does.

    Where I believe the faculty union and others are wrong is thinking that if they force his resignation that this plan will go away. The chancellor answers to the system board of governors - if they were against this plan they would have put the kibosh on it months ago. With the chancellor gone the system stays the course without a top leader. Nothing changes. Its a wasted effort but that union has never seen a labor vs. management fight they didn't like.

    The real villain is the state legislature's hands-off oversight and unwillingness to prioritize funding for state-owned universities. Or even failure to gain the knowledge on the benefits of a well-educated population.

    For naming, I don't see a problem with directional names. They're the least offensive and the least likely to be rejected by the public.
    All true but to self-destruct like he did in response to the resistance was a very bad thing. Inherent to his role is to be able to balance all the factions and I think he kind of lost it. That kind of thing just doesn't blow over in this environment.

    As for names, I agree. Directional names followed by the town make sense. Also, just because there is a tiny school in NEPA called Keystone doesn't mean the PASSHE can't use the word Keystone in their name. It would be clearly a distinct entity. Keystone is a good word to consider.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    I think you are confusing designing with handling the details. You keep saying he's not designing it, the schools are. But the overall "design" has his name on it. He's just letting the others work out the details.
    Sure does.

    Where I believe the faculty union and others are wrong is thinking that if they force his resignation that this plan will go away. The chancellor answers to the system board of governors - if they were against this plan they would have put the kibosh on it months ago. With the chancellor gone the system stays the course without a top leader. Nothing changes. Its a wasted effort but that union has never seen a labor vs. management fight they didn't like.

    The real villain is the state legislature's hands-off oversight and unwillingness to prioritize funding for state-owned universities. Or even failure to gain the knowledge on the benefits of a well-educated population.

    For naming, I don't see a problem with directional names. They're the least offensive and the least likely to be rejected by the public.

    Leave a comment:


  • ESU Warrior
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    I like Keystone University. Or Keystone State.

    That said, it will take a long time to build a brand.
    There is already a "Keystone College" in NEPA

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    I think you are confusing designing with handling the details. You keep saying he's not designing it, the schools are. But the overall "design" has his name on it. He's just letting the others work out the details.
    Semantics

    I mean the big details like the triads and that stuff are his. The Integrations wouldn't be happening without him. He also talked about how he thought athletics programs would be losing money and presumably reduced...but then after it was examined, that wasn't the case. So he looks at the data and adapts.

    Honestly, without him...they'd likely keep limping along as they have been for the past 30 years. And maybe the sustainability plans work?

    It's honestly hard to say. There's not a lot of communication, details, decisions from what I see...other than the very high level pr goals that are released. Now they have to know more behind the scenes. They're just not showing their cards.

    Once they start releasing details...which Academic program design should be coming within the next week or so...then we should know more. Supposedly a lot will be released over next 2 weeks. Time will tell I guess.

    Until we see those details, it's hard to say anything definitively. But he's definitely the catalyst for this all.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    I think so. The thing is, he's not designing this. He's letting the schools and consultants.

    I know the sports committees don't want to lose sports and are fighting hard to keep them.

    You make good points. How about this? There's 1 budget. So what if they decide to load a team with scholarships. Like say Cal at football. Then say they load Edinboro up with basketball scholarships?
    I think you are confusing designing with handling the details. You keep saying he's not designing it, the schools are. But the overall "design" has his name on it. He's just letting the others work out the details.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    I like Keystone University. Or Keystone State.

    That said, it will take a long time to build a brand.
    There is already a Keystone College in Pa. They better pick something soon, because they want to present a name in April.

    Listening to a commentator on a podcast, he said it is all an experiment based on the Gates Foundation theory of Fail Fast. He added that the Gates Foundation spent billions of dollars on educational innovations with no results, and that is where our leader cut his teeth. The chancellor said at the hearings that Cheyney is a model, go small to grow.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Do you think sports are on the Chancellor's radar?

    I admit I'm not too informed on the sports aspect. However, I do know one of the guiding principles of the NCAA is to ensure fairness in terms of competition. There seem to be a lot of conflicts with the current plan. For example, athletes could be like interchangeable parts. Let's say Bloom is in need of a TE for next season in football and LHU has a really good TE. Can LH's player just switch teams? Ok, probably not but who knows. Can he "transfer" without really transferring? Just become a Bloom student and continue to take the same classes at LH but just online? I'm just thinking out loud. I don't know the answers.
    I think so. The thing is, he's not designing this. He's letting the schools and consultants.

    I know the sports committees don't want to lose sports and are fighting hard to keep them.

    You make good points. How about this? There's 1 budget. So what if they decide to load a team with scholarships. Like say Cal at football. Then say they load Edinboro up with basketball scholarships?

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    It just sounds hacked together. 2 names because they want to try to make everyone happy. How do you communicate this to prospective students? We're this name for accredidation...but this is really our name. But we have 1 budget.

    I feel like the ncaa will sniff this out and not allow it for sports...but I don't know. Ive heard the ncaa replied favorably.

    I feel like a lot of employees will jump ship too.
    Do you think sports are on the Chancellor's radar?

    I admit I'm not too informed on the sports aspect. However, I do know one of the guiding principles of the NCAA is to ensure fairness in terms of competition. There seem to be a lot of conflicts with the current plan. For example, athletes could be like interchangeable parts. Let's say Bloom is in need of a TE for next season in football and LHU has a really good TE. Can LH's player just switch teams? Ok, probably not but who knows. Can he "transfer" without really transferring? Just become a Bloom student and continue to take the same classes at LH but just online? I'm just thinking out loud. I don't know the answers.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post
    From the Raging Chicken:

    "So, while the @statesytem cries crisis, it has hired the Ohio-based "branding and marketing agency" Ologie, to develop "an 'Integrated U' name and messaging strategy" for the universities being forced to merge."

    "It is telling that once again, the @statesystemseems to believe that public relations is the pathway to integration, leaving piles of unanswered questions about the impact on students, faculty, staff, and community members."

    "Notably, the names of the communities that host these universities are erased in the new names, with the exception of the corporate sounding "Bloomsburg University Group." Those communities stand to face the most significant, negative economic impacts of the merger."

    "For example, will accrediting bodies such as the NCAA or bodies associated with specific academic programs allow for more than one accredited program per academic program or sport?"

    "Survey claims "the new entity name will be used for accreditation purposes only, honoring a commitment to retaining each institution's name, logo, mascot, and identity." However, it's not clear what this means for accreditations for sports/academic programs at each university."

    "The company is surveying selective students, employees, alumni, donors, "university leadership," Board of Trustee members, high school students, and "others" about what name will "honor the individual names, legacies, and identities of each university."

    It just sounds hacked together. 2 names because they want to try to make everyone happy. How do you communicate this to prospective students? We're this name for accredidation...but this is really our name. But we have 1 budget.

    I feel like the ncaa will sniff this out and not allow it for sports...but I don't know. Ive heard the ncaa replied favorably.

    I feel like a lot of employees will jump ship too.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

    Agree

    Don't become another directional school.
    I like Keystone University. Or Keystone State.

    That said, it will take a long time to build a brand.

    Leave a comment:

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