PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

I do agree. Lived near Little Washington when my son was in HS. He had the opportunity to attend and graduate from what was supposedly the smallest school district in PA. While he had great friends, great memories and a good basic education, I always felt he should be getting more for the amount of school taxes we paid (among the highest in the state). I on the other hand attended a mega HS in Maryland and I can attest to the cold socialist tone they bring when they focus on shoving the most students through the "education process" as efficiently as possible. It would be nice if they could come up with a happy median but the gov REALLY doesn't do that very well!!

It sounds like you were in a district that should have split the district into multiple high schools like is common in suburban Philadelphia.

Central Bucks, West Chester and Downingtown SD all have three high schools and I doubt they are cold and "socialist"

The only district that seems to want the massive single high school is North Penn...they had 3200 students this year.

Downingtown East had 1700 and West had 1400 and STEM had 962 students.

[Ship69]

I don't know about centralized schools in rural areas...but do you need all those admins to run them?

Every county in PA below 100,000people should have one district run by the county. It may have multiple high schools

Let's take Elk County. It has 30,000 people and served by SIX school districts.

That is crazy.

My response to the people who live vicariously through their local high school and it's athletics...get over it. Trotting out pop pop every fall to celebrate the 1960 title team needs to stop. Cut the cord. Half of this state wants to live in the past and that is why their towns and counties are falling off the cliff. You want better times? Figure out a new future and identity...it's not hard...Madonna has done it every other year since 1983! lol

The steel mills are not coming back.

The coal mines are not coming back.

The Pennsylvania Railroad is no more.

What made Pennsylvania an economic powerhouse through the 1950's is gone.

The Pennsylvania east of I-81 and then south of I-78 has it figured out and that is the part of the state that is growing.

There are pockets in the rest that are okay like State College and Pittsburgh...but Altoona, Johnstown, Erie....the northern tier? Time to stop wishing for the past to come back and join the modern world.

In some of the more rural areas, you'd probably get rid of some administrative costs by reducing the number of (relatively low paid) superintendents and doing some streamlining of purchasing, etc. I've been to Forest County, which basically had two schools, East Forest and West Forest. Nothing much to do there. I'm familiar with some of the county school districts in Maryland to the south of me. Washington County is an interesting study because of its unusual shape. You've got a cluster of high schools around Hagerstown, the only sizable city in the district, and out west are relatively isolated areas in Clear Spring and Hancock. They're both far enough out west that busing kids in and out of there is impractical. So you're going to have those tiny high schools in Clear Spring and Hancock, with their own principals and assistants, no matter what you do. Also, district headquarters in Hagerstown has a tendency toward administrative creep. You have assistant superintendents for curriculum, etc., that you likely wouldn't have in a smaller district. And it's hard to get away from variance in quality. It's an open secret in Washington County that it's better to attend some high schools, usually in the more well-off areas of the county than others. While the school district support might not vary much from school to school, most people are aware that the background of the student population and parental support for the schools often are as important to success as money.

[IUPNation]

I'm not saying it won't work. There's history with good consolidations - Armstrong is going well and so is Central Valley in Beaver County. The behind the scenes political work is going to be a lot of work and savings are always going to be negligible.

But won't it help with tax burdens across some of the communities? I have to imagine the school taxes in McKeesport are hellish and the rate through the roof. A community that distressed can't go it alone. Norristown SD would be in the toilet...and they already have outlandish school taxes....if they didn't have East and West Norriton in the district as well. Same with Coatesville..it has several affluent townships in the district that offset the lower incomes of the residents in Coatesville and South Coatesville.

I guess I'm biased seeing what I do where I live...Downingtown is the biggest district in Chester County with 13000 students overall...3 high schools campuses (East, West and STEM)..3 middle schools and 10 elementary schools serving Downingtown Borough and 7 townships (with a total resident population of nearly 80,000 people over 82 square miles). Its big and a lot to manage and yet it's one of the most desired schools districts in PA where families move her to get the kids in the schools. We have a large Indian population mainly because the STEM school is so good. It's pretty impressive...although West Chester SD is better with their finances and they are the second largest district with 12500 students.

Why can't we get this right across the entire commonwealth? Pennsylvania does everything the hard way...funding schools of all levels, roads, mass transit...everything is an issue because we can't get half of the state to buy into reforms because that's not how it was done in 1955.

The political insanity of Pennsylvania is what holds us back from being more successful as a state.

[IUPNation]

There surely will be savings to be had in some cases. But I worked for a used textbook company many years back, and some school districts in Pa. are unbelievably isolated, especially in areas such as the northern tier. You might save on administration, but having a centralized high school or middle school would be difficult due to transportation issues, so you'd still have a lot of small schools. Pa., of course, actually started consolidating well back into the '50s. Our Waynesboro School District was a consolidation of Waynesboro with two small township districts, but the distances for relatively close. When I started attending Mechanicsburg, it had only been about four years since the Mechanicsburg district had split into Mechanicsburg and Cumberland Valley. While school populations were relatively even then, they made the mistake of assigning the huge majority of undeveloped land to Cumberland Valley, so that CV is now three times the size of Mechanicsburg and growing so rapidly that it can barely keep up.

I agree that the rural areas in western Pa., where enrollments have fallen off the table, need a look. It will be complicated and there are a lot of factors to consider, plus the usual pushback you'll get from people who identify with their local schools.

I don't know about centralized schools in rural areas...but do you need all those admins to run them?

Every county in PA below 100,000people should have one district run by the county. It may have multiple high schools

Let's take Elk County. It has 30,000 people and served by SIX school districts.

That is crazy.

My response to the people who live vicariously through their local high school and it's athletics...get over it. Trotting out pop pop every fall to celebrate the 1960 title team needs to stop. Cut the cord. Half of this state wants to live in the past and that is why their towns and counties are falling off the cliff. You want better times? Figure out a new future and identity...it's not hard...Madonna has done it every other year since 1983! lol

The steel mills are not coming back.

The coal mines are not coming back.

The Pennsylvania Railroad is no more.

What made Pennsylvania an economic powerhouse through the 1950's is gone.

The Pennsylvania east of I-81 and then south of I-78 has it figured out and that is the part of the state that is growing.

There are pockets in the rest that are okay like State College and Pittsburgh...but Altoona, Johnstown, Erie....the northern tier? Time to stop wishing for the past to come back and join the modern world.

[Fightingscot82]

You live in Allegheny County right? It's the poster child of the need for consolidation.

It has 1.2 million people and 43 school districts. Factor out the city...and it's still 900,000 people and 42 districts

The nearest county in population is Montgomery with 850,000 residents being served by 23 school districts...with Bryn Athyn SD not operating any schools..public students not going to the church school go to neighboring districts for school. Montgomery has almost the same population as suburban Pittsburgh and has almost half of the districts

You mean to say there isn't any way to cut the number of districts in Allegheny County in half that will take pressure off taxpayers and improve the quality of education in struggling areas?

This isn't about the North Allegheny, Upper St Clair and Mt Lebanons of the world...they are fine...but why does all those Mon River Valley towns keep trying to go about it on their own? Pride? Having those crappy schools only makes the town's fate even worse....

I think your last point about the state needing to do some uniformity is crucial. That should be part of the bill as should be how state funding goes across the board. Relying on local property taxes is why so many of these districts can't do anything. There is no way Chester/Upland SD will ever improve because the City of Chester is stuck in the mud economically. Better educated kids means a better community over the long run to break the dysfunction.

I'm not saying it won't work. There's history with good consolidations - Armstrong is going well and so is Central Valley in Beaver County. The behind the scenes political work is going to be a lot of work and savings are always going to be negligible.

[IUPNation]

Merger & consolidation doesn't save much money and I doubt it will increase student achievement. Instead of paying 5 superintendents at the market rate for 2,500 student school districts, they'll have to pay the market rate for a superintendent of a 10,000 student school district. Larger and more complex will also require more administrators to coordinate and supervise curriculum and special services for different levels if they don't already exist. 5 athletic directors, too. They can't merge custodial positions.

The major obstacle will be teacher contracts. Pennsylvania doesn't have standard teacher contracts like some neighboring states, so you'll have to consolidate a handful of different contracts with different end dates, salary tables, benefits packages, etc. But it could bring more uniformity from district to district. There's a $15k range in starting salary just in the districts surrounding where I live.

You live in Allegheny County right? It's the poster child of the need for consolidation.

It has 1.2 million people and 43 school districts. Factor out the city...and it's still 900,000 people and 42 districts

The nearest county in population is Montgomery with 850,000 residents being served by 23 school districts...with Bryn Athyn SD not operating any schools..public students not going to the church school go to neighboring districts for school. Montgomery has almost the same population as suburban Pittsburgh and has almost half of the districts

You mean to say there isn't any way to cut the number of districts in Allegheny County in half that will take pressure off taxpayers and improve the quality of education in struggling areas?

This isn't about the North Allegheny, Upper St Clair and Mt Lebanons of the world...they are fine...but why does all those Mon River Valley towns keep trying to go about it on their own? Pride? Having those crappy schools only makes the town's fate even worse....

I think your last point about the state needing to do some uniformity is crucial. That should be part of the bill as should be how state funding goes across the board. Relying on local property taxes is why so many of these districts can't do anything. There is no way Chester/Upland SD will ever improve because the City of Chester is stuck in the mud economically. Better educated kids means a better community over the long run to break the dysfunction.

[boatcapt]

But it needs to be done. All of those tiny districts in the Yinzerlands do not make any sense. What worked for 1955 is not going to work in 2025.

Indiana County should have one district with multiple high schools. You don’t need all those admins for a county with a small
population.

I do agree. Lived near Little Washington when my son was in HS. He had the opportunity to attend and graduate from what was supposedly the smallest school district in PA. While he had great friends, great memories and a good basic education, I always felt he should be getting more for the amount of school taxes we paid (among the highest in the state). I on the other hand attended a mega HS in Maryland and I can attest to the cold socialist tone they bring when they focus on shoving the most students through the "education process" as efficiently as possible. It would be nice if they could come up with a happy median but the gov REALLY doesn't do that very well!!

[Ship69]

But it needs to be done. All of those tiny districts in the Yinzerlands do not make any sense. What worked for 1955 is not going to work in 2025.

Indiana County should have one district with multiple high schools. You don’t need all those admins for a county with a small
population.

There surely will be savings to be had in some cases. But I worked for a used textbook company many years back, and some school districts in Pa. are unbelievably isolated, especially in areas such as the northern tier. You might save on administration, but having a centralized high school or middle school would be difficult due to transportation issues, so you'd still have a lot of small schools. Pa., of course, actually started consolidating well back into the '50s. Our Waynesboro School District was a consolidation of Waynesboro with two small township districts, but the distances for relatively close. When I started attending Mechanicsburg, it had only been about four years since the Mechanicsburg district had split into Mechanicsburg and Cumberland Valley. While school populations were relatively even then, they made the mistake of assigning the huge majority of undeveloped land to Cumberland Valley, so that CV is now three times the size of Mechanicsburg and growing so rapidly that it can barely keep up.

I agree that the rural areas in western Pa., where enrollments have fallen off the table, need a look. It will be complicated and there are a lot of factors to consider, plus the usual pushback you'll get from people who identify with their local schools.

[Fightingscot82]

But it needs to be done. All of those tiny districts in the Yinzerlands do not make any sense. What worked for 1955 is not going to work in 2025.

Indiana County should have one district with multiple high schools. You don’t need all those admins for a county with a small
population.

Merger & consolidation doesn't save much money and I doubt it will increase student achievement. Instead of paying 5 superintendents at the market rate for 2,500 student school districts, they'll have to pay the market rate for a superintendent of a 10,000 student school district. Larger and more complex will also require more administrators to coordinate and supervise curriculum and special services for different levels if they don't already exist. 5 athletic directors, too. They can't merge custodial positions.

The major obstacle will be teacher contracts. Pennsylvania doesn't have standard teacher contracts like some neighboring states, so you'll have to consolidate a handful of different contracts with different end dates, salary tables, benefits packages, etc. But it could bring more uniformity from district to district. There's a $15k range in starting salary just in the districts surrounding where I live.

[IUPNation]

Rep Scott's proposal (not even a filed piece of legislation) is to study consolidation. Probably take several years to get the study committee selected and get preliminary results. Then another few years to get the final data, debate various methods of reorganizing, and draft a final report. Then at least a year of debate in the state legislature before finally voting one way or the other. Then, assuming it passes, probably a four or five year transition phase.

Bottom line, maybe current 6th graders are affected but more likely current 1st graders!!!

But it needs to be done. All of those tiny districts in the Yinzerlands do not make any sense. What worked for 1955 is not going to work in 2025.

Indiana County should have one district with multiple high schools. You don’t need all those admins for a county with a small
population.

[boatcapt]

A lot of the rural school districts will be impacted, as will quite a few in and around Allegheny County, but most school districts in the collar counties around Philadelphia shouldn't be impacted dramatically (though I'm sure Jenkintown and the Bristols might be the exceptions in the Philadelphia area - come to think of it, there are probably a couple of districts in Delaware County which could stand to merge as well).

Rep Scott's proposal (not even a filed piece of legislation) is to study consolidation. Probably take several years to get the study committee selected and get preliminary results. Then another few years to get the final data, debate various methods of reorganizing, and draft a final report. Then at least a year of debate in the state legislature before finally voting one way or the other. Then, assuming it passes, probably a four or five year transition phase.

Bottom line, maybe current 6th graders are effected but more likely current 1st graders!!!

[ctrabs74]

Finally..somebody in Harrisburg with some sense.

School district consolidation is long overdue.

https://vista.today/2025/06/greg-sco...box=1749827904

A lot of the rural school districts will be impacted, as will quite a few in and around Allegheny County, but most school districts in the collar counties around Philadelphia shouldn't be impacted dramatically (though I'm sure Jenkintown and the Bristols might be the exceptions in the Philadelphia area - come to think of it, there are probably a couple of districts in Delaware County which could stand to merge as well).

[IUPNation]

Finally..somebody in Harrisburg with some sense.

School district consolidation is long overdue.

https://vista.today/2025/06/greg-sco...box=1749827904

[boatcapt]

Just admit that you are a mistrusting loon. Consultants can't be trusted. The government can't be trusted. Nonprofits can't be trusted. You'd be a great character on the X Files.

The Penn State report is brutal and honest. Penn State's branch campus situation is so similar to PASSHE. They overbuilt regional campuses and most are now located in communities with nonexistent birth rates and rusting economies. Academically, they are far too general to distinguish themselves, rely too much on impersonal online classes, and don't offer much to their communities other than jobs. When you overbuild for decades, there are looming facilities lifecycle needs that they can't afford. Nearly every campus operates at a deficit that has to be absorbed by the mothership. The best response would be the nuclear option and nobody in their right mind would bring that upon their self. Only 2 or 3 campuses out of 20+ are viable and only one or two are truly distinctive.

The PASSHE mergers have shown that you can't trim your way out of financial issues caused by piss poor execution of bad plans.

As a former government bureaucrat who became a consultant for 10+ years who now works for a not for profit, I think I understand the processes of the three pretty well. These three groups are primarily paid based on the quantity and weight of the reports they prepare.

[Fightingscot82]

Non profit staff...even better.

Just admit that you are a mistrusting loon. Consultants can't be trusted. The government can't be trusted. Nonprofits can't be trusted. You'd be a great character on the X Files.

The Penn State report is brutal and honest. Penn State's branch campus situation is so similar to PASSHE. They overbuilt regional campuses and most are now located in communities with nonexistent birth rates and rusting economies. Academically, they are far too general to distinguish themselves, rely too much on impersonal online classes, and don't offer much to their communities other than jobs. When you overbuild for decades, there are looming facilities lifecycle needs that they can't afford. Nearly every campus operates at a deficit that has to be absorbed by the mothership. The best response would be the nuclear option and nobody in their right mind would bring that upon their self. Only 2 or 3 campuses out of 20+ are viable and only one or two are truly distinctive.

The PASSHE mergers have shown that you can't trim your way out of financial issues caused by piss poor execution of bad plans.